First draft of all matchups is done! yeah!
On September 14 2012 12:19 Glon wrote:Draft 1 of ZvZ and ZvP is done! Check out OP *work in progress* I have read through page: 452 OK -- I will be running this thread for the foreseeable future. Note that these instructions will change and become more detailed, however this should do for now. First, an introduction. I am a top 16 Grandmasters zerg (with as many as 3 accounts in the top 16 at once, peaking several times at #1 Grandmaster on the North American server). I have attended multiple MLGs and have many online tournament results. For details, check out my liquidpedia page here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GlonI am currently teamless, however will be attending MLG Winter. * I do offer coaching - PM me for details RulesNow for some basic rules.
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All questions are welcome! Whether it be something rudimentary like "How should I hotkey my army?" to the more complex "When should I counterattack in ZvT?", ask away. I would however ask that you spend 2 minutes and try to search for your answer in the search bar before posting. There's a large likely hood that your answer is already there, it just may be hard to find (which is one of the reasons this thread is here).
Be careful when making claims. Always try to backup your posts with direct evidence from professional replays, VODs, or comments (provide links or references).
So go ahead -- post away! Remember the purpose of this thread is to create insightful discussion and promote involvement from the community. Look for my posts on FAQs and general builds below, they'll be popping up and being added to consistently. General guides (READ BEFORE POSTING BASIC QUESTIONSZerg Versus Zerg+ Show Spoiler +Before we even discuss build orders: YOUR FIRST 3 (THREE) Overlord MUST go across the map. Generally, your first overlord should head towards your opponent's natural, next one to your opponent's third (or some place near it that gives you as much vision as possible), and third one to the middle of the map. Future overlords can be placed at your own discretion, it may be a good choice to leave them near your base to avoid being picked off. There are 3 basic openers that can be done in the ZvZ matchup: fast pool (6,7,8,10,11), standard pool into expand, and hatchery first. I will outline standard build orders for each opener below, and add general strategy tips below these over the next couple of weeks. 1. The fast spawning poolI would discourage any of you from opening a 6 or 7 spawning pool. While yes, these builds CAN work, they have no follow up and are as all in as you can get. Therefore, I would encourage you to open up with a 10 or 11 pool. VOD: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls4/vod/70585 (ST Life vs LG-IM NesTea) Standard build order: -10 overlord -11 drone -11 spawning pool -14 queen/6 lings Here, you have a choice. You can take a gas (like Life does, plan on aggression, usually all in) OR you can take your natural hatchery. Now, when your lings run into your opponents base: -If your opponent opened 14 pool, start focusing down your opponent's building hatchery. The point here is to either force a cancel on your opponent's hatchery, OR to kill drones if your opponent pulls them to defend the building hatchery. Remember that you're looking to cause economic damage here to either help you when you all in later (if you took speed) or to get ahead as your take your own hatchery The After: The Trivial - After your harassment has been done, pull back to your natural. Generally, you will want to get a spine - remember that your opponent will have more larva than you and thus potentially more zerglings. 2 queens should be blocking your ramp, and when possible morph 1-2 banelings for defense. Moving into the mid game - Remember that, if you killed more than 2 drones or canceled your opponent's hatchery, you are ahead. If you forced a drone pull but only got 1-2 drones, you are even with your opponent. If you forced a drone pull but did not kill any drones, you are far behind your opponent. -If you are ahead of your opponent: I would suggest going for 2 base mutalisks. When the player that is ahead goes for fast mutalisks, it allows him to start a snowball effect that will result in a massive supply lead. Keep in mind that, as the mutalisk player, you will have far more time than normal to get your damage done before your opponent gets out infestors or mutalisks of their own (in which case you have a free win). -If you are even with your opponent: Take your pick of strategy. I will add segments on how to play mutalisks, how to play infestor ling, and how to play roach/hydra/infestor at a later point -If you are behind your opponent: This is a tricky spot. You can attempt to go for a baneling all in follow up and hope that your opponent over made drones. However, this is a situation that relies on luck for success. Going for a roach/baneling all in generally will not work - even if your opponent goes for mutalisks, they will have enough of an early lead to build defense and get their mutalisks out. I would suggest going for fast infestors here with burrow if your opponent takes a fast third - you can hope for some lucky burrowed infestor harass while at the same time have an efficient defense with well placed fungal growths. The Standard 14 PoolThis is THE MOST standard build, and if you are looking to improve, this is the build to learn and master. It can be used in ANY situation, on ANY map and can defend ANY all in (if scouted) while also having the potential to keep up with any macro build from your opponent. The Build: -14 spawning pool -15 hatchery -14 drone -15 queen -17 overlord -17 gas -16 zergling If your opponent takes a 14 pool or 15 hatchery, use your 2 early lings to scout out your opponent's base. I prefer to take a baneling nest on 50 gas and speed on the next 100 gas mined, however you can flip the order you get these 2 buildings if you wish. Enter a standard mid game! If your opponent chooses to go for an aggressive spawning pool, there are several different deviations that you must memorize and react to depending on what you see. However, it is always standard to stop mining gas and/or cancel your extractor if possible, you'll need all the minerals you can get to defend and then recover to a favorable position. Situations: -If your opponent pulls drones with his zerglings: You MUST cancel your natural hatchery. Generally, your goal here is simply to STALL until you are able to get a sizable number of zerglings/queen/spine crawler. Be sure to also cancel any spine crawlers being built before your opponent's lings/drones get to your base - any delay helps! When your opponent's lings/drones enter your base, mineral walk your drones to your natural mineral patch, build a queen, and build lings. Try to sneak 1 of your drones behind your mineral line before hand to build a spine crawler. As a general rule, when your queen pops you can fight your opponent. You will have 8-10 zerglings, and more drones. Continue to rally zerglings and micro as best as possible (pull back lings/drones, ect). Keep in mind that it is IDEAL to engage when all of your minerals are spent - you will have as many units as possible at this point. -If your opponent does NOT pull drones with his zerglings: The goal of your opponent here is to cancel your natural hatchery. Once you see your opponent's zerglings crossing the map with your first overlord, immediately build an overlord and pump out lings as larva permits. Grab a queen after building your initial 4 lings. Generally, you will want to pull 4 drones with your initial 4 zerglings (2 drones for each extra ling your opponent has over you). Continue to build lings if your opponent does - your opponent SHOULD take a hatchery, however if he does not, block your ramp with 2 queens and grab a spine crawler (you will scout this with your first overlord). Be careful to not lose drones - if you don't lose any, you will be far ahead and in a winning position. See above for what to do if ahead/behind your opponent. The Hatchery FirstGenerally, this play relies on a larger map OR the player having excellent micro skills to hold off early aggression. Realize that going for a hatchery first puts you in a vulnerable position to several all in plays - however, the early economic boost is always welcome The Build: -15 hatchery -16 spawning pool -17 gas -When spawning pool finishes, grab 2 queens. Again, I prefer to grab a baneling nest on 50 gas in order to play very safely, and then start zergling speed on 100 gas. However, this is a small touch that I may make a short write up about if anyone shows any interest (copied from Scarlett/Leenock). If your opponent goes for a 14 spawning pool or 15 hatchery, play standard. Your pick of what unit composition you would like to build towards. If your opponent goes for a 6-10 pool, you're in a tricky spot. You will have to cancel your natural hatchery if your opponent does not pull drones (only lings) and will be behind your opponent (although not so far behind that you cannot recover with a few nice plays). If your opponent chooses to pull drones, hide 2 drones behind your main mineral line (canceling your natural). Mineral walk your drones to your natural, and clog up the ramp to prevent further reinforcements. If you can stall until your queen and lings come out, you may be able to hold off and win. However, this is a tricky situation that relies on your opponent making a mistake in order for you to win the game. The BasicsTo start, your first 2 overlords should move across the map. Your first overlord needs to check your opponents natural to confirm whether your opponent went for a gateway --> cybernetics build or a forge fast expand. Your first overlord should then move into the main base, moving to a place of safety immediately if your opponent is going for a fast stalker or just hanging out near the main nexus if your opponent did not. Your second overlord should go to some place near the natural (the point is that you see the natural gasses, or can move your overlord in to see them at a specific point). Whenever I teach students ZvP, I tell them to remember 2 timings: 6:30 and ~10:00. At 6:30, the zerg player needs to scout the protoss with his 2 overlords - the main overlord moving into the main to attempt to see the tech buildings the protoss put down and the natural overlord moving into the protoss natural to see how many gasses the protoss player took. If the protoss player took only 1 gas at his natural, play like he only has 2 total gasses. The protoss player is likely going for a fast third base or for a gateway all in. If the protoss player took 2 gasses at his natural, play like he has 4 total gasses. This could be any range of possibilities - a sentry heavy three base (not common at all), double stargate, blink all in, or the ever common immortal sentry all in ( Mavvie's guide to defend immortal sentry). The next timing is at ~10:00, which students must remember. At this timing is when most 2 base protoss all ins will hit. If your opponent is on 2 bases and you have 60 drones, you should only be making units (this SHOULD BE at around the 8:30-9:00 for a professional, however it may be later if your macro is not spot on. That's OK -- learn what 60 drones looks like spread out across 3 bases and estimate while in game). As a general rule, do not stop making units until your opponent takes a third - yes, professionals DO sometimes drone, however as a GENERAL rule continue to produce units. Finally, my last overarching piece of advice, is to always have a zergling behind your opponent's third base. Get in the habit of doing this - it will let you know if/when your opponent takes a third, in which case you may stop making units, and proceed into a macro game. The BuildIf your opponent goes for a forge fast expand:-14 spawning pool -15 hatchery* -14 drone -15 queen -17 overlord -17 zergling -Hatchery @ third after second queen in main* *If your opponent pylon blocks your natural, move your drone to your third and another drone from your main to your natural (to see if the protoss cancels his pylon or not). If your opponent next pylon blocks your third, immediately build an overlord/queen/lings. Just be sure to spend all of your larva, and not stack up larva. Remember that your opponent is spending a significant amount of money on pylons, so it will be OK. If your opponent goes for a gateway --> cybernetics core:-14 spawning pool -15 hatchery* -14 drone -15 queen -17 overlord -17 zergling -17 gas *In this case, if your opponent pylon blocks your natural, DO NOT take your third. While some pros choose to take their thirds first anyways, I do not suggest it unless you are very confident in your micro/timings - one bad click and the game will be over to stalker pressure. Instead just build your queen/overlord/4-6 lings before taking your natural. Remember to be careful of any kind of 4 gate scenarios - if your overlord (it will be your second one for 90% of maps) sees no natural expansion at the 5:30 mark, you're being 4 gated. Spine and ling up - don't be afraid to spend energy on transfuses if need be. Defend, and you will be OK (you can pull off gas after starting ling speed in this situation as well - it's all you will really need to continue defending, and any extra gas mined is just wasted resources). ****Between the 2 - assuming that your protoss opponent is on 2 bases - you should be taking 2 gasses at the 6 minute mark. At 100 gas, begin lair, a roach warren, and an evolution chamber. When lair is ~50% done, add 2 more gasses (bringing you up to a total of 4). With your next 100 gas, begin researching ling speed. When lair is done, you should have roach speed and +1 ranged attack researching as well. Don't forget to throw down a macro hatchery when money permits, this is usually put down in the main. The Macro GameSo - you've scouted your opponent's taking a third base. First things first - assuming that your opponent does not have a warp prism harassing you, take any units you may have built in case of a 3 base all in and move them into an aggressive stance outside of your opponent's 3 bases. As you get better, you will figure out how to poke and harass your opponent without losing units to forcefield traps, ect. At home, you should be taking a fourth base, adding a second evolution chamber (I like researching missile and melee upgrades, leaving armor until hive when I take a third evolution chamber), and droning up. GENERALLY, you want to OVERDRONE your fourth base a tad, in order to place down a spine crawler wall (but still be mining adequately). Tech to infestors, and build units to defend any pushes while teching to hive. Usually, players start their hives at around the 12:00-12:30 mark in order to have brood lords out in a reasonable time. I would discourage players from taking their hive sooner than this point - it leaves them vulnerable to certain 3 base all ins; as well as later from this point - players often get stuck in a low tech late game that simply does not work versus the monstrous protoss death ball. The Late Game EngagementAssuming that your protoss opponent is not going air-toss (carriers, mothership, void rays oh my! (have 6 brood lords to focus templar, rest of army should consist of queen/infestor/corrupter)), your army should consist of: -5-6 queens -8-12 infestors -~15-20 brood lords -~5-10 corrupters (Keep in mind that you will be on ~50-60 drones at this point) (Also don't forget about overseers - I like to get ~4 to be safe) There should be NO FIGHT that you take that you don't want. Any fight you take you should be presplit, with infestors and queens under or slightly behind the brood lord wall to avoid feedbacks. Throw down a thin(ish) wall of infested terrans - remember you don't want to spend too much energy on this, only enough to take away some fire - and make sure that everything is attacking. In these fights, the zerg player is forced to manually select units and micro them away or forward for specific spells. Here is what the professional is doing in such a late game engagement: try to copy as much of it as possible, however don't be overwhelmed. As long as your units are presplit and you're spamming fungal/infested terrans along with some transfuse, you'll be OK (a few attempted neural's never hurt anyone either). Ideal micro: -1-2 burrowed infestors behind or beside your opponent's army at all times, dodging detection while also looking for a neural on the mothership -Select forward infestors to throw down infested terrans, move to back of fight to conserve for later engagements -Kite back with brood lords - Get into a rhythm, however only kite back brood lords that are under threat of stalkers. Generally, with good fungals, stalkers will only have 1 potential forward blink -Corrupters focused on colossus - Generally, the mothership will be neuralled or can be chased down after the fight anyways, colossi are more important -Constantly select 1 infestor and move forward for an attemped neural on the mothership - if you get it, instantly waste it's energy on vortexes on your opponent's army -Whenever templar come forward, pull back queens/infestors and focus closest 3-5 brood lords on the templar -Look for chain fungal growths - specifically on the stalkers - these are the most important part of the standard protoss late game that must die Oh, and don't forget to expand - it's never fun running out of money. Overlord placement can be tricky, map depending. However, most maps allow players to move their first 2 overlords out across the map to helpful positions. For more information, I would suggest watching some player's stream for overlord placement hints. The BasicsAlmost all builds in Zerg Versus Terran start off with a 15 hatchery. To deal with 2 barracks play, I would heavily suggest scouting on 15 supply with a drone. Both drones are generally from your main mineral line at the same time, one building the hatchery at your natural and the other moving across the map to scout your opponent. Alternatively, some players opt to go for a earlier scout, sent as early as 12 supply, because they feel insecure holding off 2 barracks play. Each player should make their own choice for each map, depending on how confident they are on holding off this early cheese. The Basic Build-15 hatchery -16 spawning pool -2 queens when pool finishes ... If you would like to tech-17-21 gas -Speed @ 100 -At Next 150 gas, 2 evolution chambers -Start 1/1. Get rest of gasses, expand. If you would like to take a fast third-2 more queens (queen 3/4). Move initial 2 queens after inject to front of natural to begin creep spread (Queen 3/4 will be injecting) -Take third immediately when minerals available (should be ~ when Queen 3/4 are at 50-75% complete) -Take 2 gasses at same time as taking third (do not delay) -Generally, players gas progression is: Ling Speed, 1/1, start lair (2 more gasses), lair finishes (last 2 gasses) I did not bother to put in exact supply counts since your build order will depend on what your opponent does. If you have to build more lings, delay these timings in order to get out more drones and not be mineral starved. Defending the 2 barracks playThe very first thing you must do is IDENTIFY that it is a 2 barracks play. With your 15 scout, move into your opponents main base. If you see 1 barracks building at the top of your opponent's ramp, it's USUALLY not a 2 barracks play (but still could be). Generally, your terran friend will take his natural expansion at the 3:08 mark - if you don't see this, start getting suspicious. Send a drone to the watchtower, just to check. Another clear giveaway is if your opponent sends more than 1 SCV to "scout." If so, you're PROBABLY being 2 barracks rushed. If you see 2 barracks building, you've identified the build. If you see no barracks building (and no gas), keep in mind that your opponent can be doing 1 of 3 things: proxy 2 barracks, proxy 1 barracks to pressure, and finally command center first. The proper thing to do here is to search with both your scouting drone AND 1 drone from your main for barracks play - if you can't find any quickly in the most likely spots - move one of your drones to a watchtower or a position in front of your base where you can see pressure coming. OK, so now you've identified the 2 barracks play. Great - good for you - you should be OK. Keep 1 drone in front of your natural, checking for bunkers. Keep in mind that you don't want to over pull drones - you want to mine AS MUCH money as possible before sending all of your drones to defend. When you see the first bunker building, pull ~5 drones. 2 bunker rushes generally happen in STAGES: STAGE 1: 2/3 SCV + 1 Marine versus ~ 6/7 drones. This is the initial poke by terran, aimed at getting up an initial bunker (if this bunker goes up, chances are you've lost the game). Here, your goal is to stick 2 drones on his marine, the rest killing SCVs. Ideally, your goal should also be to kill the building bunker, however, if you can't, stay calm and proceed to stage 2. STAGE 2: Multiple SCVs (depends how many terran pulls) + 4/6 marines versus everything. For this push, pull all but 2 drones from your main to your natural. Immediately when your hatchery finishes, build a spine crawler at the BACK of the base, so the terran player cannot snipe it before it becomes useful. IF you have the money, build a queen at your natural (depends on if you panicked in Stage 1 and over pulled drones + your drone micro in Stage 1 - how well did you pull hurt drones back?) Otherwise, pump out zerglings and wait for your terran friend to overextend. Generally, there is a timing when you have 8-10 zerglings (+ all of your drones) and the bunker is not done for the terran player yet that you may choose to use and try and break the terran player - you judge whether your micro is good enough compared to your opponents to see if you can exploit this timing. If you do manage to clean up the bunker/SCVs, forcing the marines back, you are in a winning position for the game, and move down to stage 4. Otherwise, your goal is to defend your spine crawler and get it into position, continually making zerglings. STAGE 3: This is the runbye stage. Generally, players try to run 8 lings by their opponents bunker in order to pick off or stop your terran opponent from reinforcing. Try to pick a path around the bunker that gives the least amount of hits to your terran opponent. This tactic is then transitioned into a 'crunch' manuever, where you now have ~6 lings on the other side of your opponent's bunker, and are able to pull everything in a more effective way to kill the bunker, ect. Try to engage when your hatchery is at ~400 health -- you don't want to engage TOO SOON, because that would mean losing out on a potentially larger force. However, keep in mind that your opponent may choose to just focus your hatchery when you engage - so you want some amount of breathing room to clear out your opponent's forces. STAGE 4: Assuming that you aren't dead, you've now held off the bunker rush. Even if you have lost 5-6 drones, remember that you have also killed an equivalent amount of SCVs from your opponent - plus you've had more mining time AND more bases! The MOST IMPORTANT thing to do here is to scout whether your opponent is expanding, gotten gas for a cheeky follow up all in, or is throwing down 2 more barracks for a follow up all in play. Generally, simply scouting whether or not your opponent has gotten another command center is most important - if he has, play normally (but keep in mind that your opponent will be able to poke with ~12 marines in a couple of minutes) with a huge advantage. If he hasn't, throw down spines (but keep droning), maybe get an extra queen or 2. Defend the all in (this should be relatively easy once you spot the lack of command center), and you've won the game. The Standard Macro GameI will add all in builds at a later time, however for now let's just look at the standard macro game. Options for the zerg range from what I have discussed above, however here we're going to go more in depth into the strategy of such compositions. Let me say right now - I will NOT be discussing roach/hydra play: it very rarely works if both players are of equal skill level and at relatively equal economic/army situations, period. So, for now, let's focus on what compositions zerg can have in the mid game: Infestor ling or mutalisk/baneling/zergling. I will leave out roaches for now - however note that many players get at least a few roaches to help versus early game helions and to supplement their mid game army. The Mutalisk mid gameGenerally, this style is filled with harassment, multitasking, and counter attacks. As the mutalisk player, you would rather cut off an army in the middle of the map, wait to macro up a LOT more units, then crush it. Drops shouldn't be too much of a problem, and can be swatted aside easily. In engagements, target groups of banelings at marines and mutalisks to focus down tanks (or, if it's a mech composition, stick to the counter attacks until you have teched to brood lords). In general, your goal should be to overwhelm, and capitalize on any terran mistake or opening that allows you to swoop in and kill a base/get an excellent engagement. The Infestor mid gameThis style requires the zerg player to be very conscious of positioning. Being caught out of position just once can cost the zerg player the game - resulting in one/two lost bases or several infestors lost. Remember that yes, while infestors are strong, they rely on being pocketed in a safe place out of enemy fire. Remember that, when using an infestor based composition, your goal should be COST EFFICIENCY, not necessarily overwhelming your opponent with units but having good trades with your opponent that allow you to pull ahead after each engagement. Also keep in mind that it is usually NOT good to fall into the "infested terran trap." Be careful not to blow all of your infestor energy on infested terrans - generally, this will be for a kill move at an opponent's base where he cannot simply retreat and wait for the infested terrans to time out (because his base would die). Also, keep in mind that fungals can be VERY powerful, even against mech compositions. If you can take engagements slowly, doing as much damage with fungal as possible before the fight even happens, you will be much more successful. The Late GameCurrently, I would like to dissuade you from going for an ultralisk composition and sticking to it. While it can be very effective to go for ultralisks, then switch to brood lords, it is usually NOT effective to stick to ultralisks as the game goes later and later (unless you have a big lead, then it really doesn't matter what you do). Therefore, I will now go over what composition your late game army should look like: -6-8 brood lords -~10 infestors -6-8 queens -Rest Corrupter/ling Keep in mind that you don't need as many brood lords in ZvT as you do in ZvP. The main threat to your brood lords is vikings, and tank splash combined with fungal takes care of marines easily (the marines will be held back, not able to get to the brood lords like stalkers can). Be sure not to be caught out of position, as this is how most players will lose their games. The other major threat is drop play - make sure you have 10-15 lings and 2-4 banelings supplemented by spines and spores at each of your outlying bases, but be careful to watch for dropships that run past these defenses to an inner base that may not be as well protected (spores and maybe leaving 1 infestor can take care of this). Other than that - focus your fungals on clumps of units, be careful not to waste all of your energy on infested terrans, and don't rush into anything you're unsure about - take the late game slow. Happy hunting  Thank to crBox for creating this template! I will be writing my own basic builds and Frequently asked Questions, however if you would like to see what he's done, check it out below: + Show Spoiler +Interesting [G] and links : + Show Spoiler +General Questions:What is an extractor trick? + Show Spoiler +When you make a building, you have one less supply because the drone is used making the building. In early game, you can make an extractor at ten (10) supply, make a drone then cancel the extractor to have 11/10 supply with a faster drone.
Example: 10 overlord, extractor, drone, cancel extractor. Then make 2 more drones when overlord pops out. What is a safe opener versus each race? + Show Spoiler +If you are looking for more in depth look at those openers you can check out below for specific match ups.
Against Terran: I usually like 13 drone scout, 15 hatch, 15 pool into 16 gas, get speed then stop mining gas into fast third base (assuming everything is standard) at around 31-32-33 supply. Very safe and the fast speed gives you map control.
15 hatch / 15 pool into 5 queens is really good too, but if you do chose a gasless build, at least try to fake a gas to make the terran avoid building 3 oc quickly...
Against Protoss: Bread and butter. 15 pool (or 14), hatch at 16 then another hatch at 21. 2 gases around 6min or 41 drones. Lair with first 100 gas, then either fast speed or +1 carapace (I like going carapace first but you have to make sure you're not under mass gateway danger.
Against Zerg: I would recommend some 15 pool safe build followed by 16 hatch. Get gas by 16ish supply. Speed then baneling nest (not necessary at 50 gas, you can delay it a bit if you don't want to be aggressive and drones. Lots of them. Always have at least 2 banelings ready for allins and maybe 2 extra lings. Recommend me some nice All ins! + Show Spoiler +Against Terran: Roach bane all in: Roach bane allin by DRGAgainst Protoss: I like this one a lot, going 15 pool, 16 hatch, but then gas and start stockpiling larvae and gas. You build your third at the standard timing (also get 2 lings, then drones then one more pair of lings to deny scouting of your main after the pool.) You get a roach warren (don't forget you don't build drones.) You get 3 extra overlords, cancel the third at the last moment (let him scout that you threw down your third before cancelling, that way he doesn't prepare.) Build roaches and lings and send them to the unsuspecting protoss :D. Against Zerg: One "new" all in that has caught my eye is the double gas baneling bust. You get a decent saturation, get a second gas at your natural (can be misinterpreted as a macro/lair build and just build speedlings in mass and do a very delayed super powerful baneling bust. It's actually really good and it hits before anything unless your opponent randomly mass roaches. Also, stockpiling gas after you get speed, drone up to decent sat (about 33ish drones) and getting a roach warren is pretty good too. : What are the standard openings in Zerg vs Zerg? + Show Spoiler +For the sake of the thread, I will simplify this into four categories:
9pools:
You build 9 drones, make a spawning pool, then get a 10 overlord, extractor trick (11/10), then make zerglings. There are two standard way to transition.
-Early gas, you get speed then all in
-Fast hatchery, leaves you vulnerable to baneling attacks since your gas is so much later. You want to go banelings before speed and play very defensive with spine(s), queens and good positioning.
14gas/14 pool:
You can either expand after the first 100 gas (stop mining gas) (You are vulnerable to hatch first if they get quick speed. You need to make defensive baneling nest (later on)
or get a baneling nest. What you want to do is hide your first zerglings near is base, make banelings with those and rally speedlings.
15pools:
15 pool into either 15 or 16 hatch is the safe and standard way to play. You can hold 6pools and you are not too far behind if your opponent gets hatch first. The next question is when do you take your gas, because if your opponent went hatch first into gas, then pool, you are behind. It opens up a window of aggression for him, especially if you didn't get a gas quickly yourself. You want to be making 2 queens at the main hatch and transfer your initial queen to your natural after the first inject.
There is also a semi all in with 15pool. You make 15 pool, then 15 gas, then 15 hatch (one drone in between each building.) You get 100 gas, no more, then get speed. You make one queen and only zerglings. This is a good aggressive build but if you are playing in the higher leagues, if you get scouted your initial gas, he should catch up on that and it's very easy to stop when you know it's coming. I highly recommend to transition if you get scouted (1 drone back in gas and make drones) unless you committed already to way too many zerglings.
15hatches:
Fifteen hatch is rather unsafe in most leagues, because of the possibility of early pools. I found myself that going 15 hatch is rather useless unless you go gas first after, to get a real advantage out of your greed. The build is simple :
15 hatch, 15 pool. Get 16 gas then double queen. Standard, safer than the other version;
15 hatch, 16 gas, 15 or 16 pool. This version gives you a significantly faster speed, hence a possibility to be counter aggressive against any builds. How do I deal with 6pools when going 15 pool? + Show Spoiler +The best way to deal with six pools is to make two spine crawlers behind your mineral line, where they are safe and try to buy time with your drones. You can mineral trick your drones to a mineral patch (check spoiler for image.) You skip queen and make zergling (make sure you don't supply block yourself.) + Show Spoiler +How do I deal with 6pools when going 15 hatch? + Show Spoiler +Unfortunately, there is a high chance you will lose. You should not leave by any means though. Run your drones either into the mineral safe patch (see image in the spoiler above) or from expo to expo. Make zerglings when your pool finish. You should NOT cancel your hatch because there is a high probability that you will lose either your main or your nat. Usually if you control way better than your opponent you can win after a very scrappy early game. How to deal with one base baneling bust when going 15 pool? + Show Spoiler +*You recognize it with the lack of expansion. It might be a roach all in too, but the reaction is safe for both.*
Assuming you went ahead and took your natural expansion with a standard gas timing (about 16 drone) You should get two queens, build a spine near the ramp in your main while your expo is finishing. You should get the baneling nest before speed with your gas, and when you have defended the all-in, get speed and counter attack. Building another spine at the natural when it finishes is optional but can be very useful, if you do opt for it, then the counter attack is way weaker (4 less lings) so I would recommend just droning up while being safe.
How to deal with one base baneling bust when going 15 hatch? + Show Spoiler +*You recognize it with the lack of expansion. It might be a roach all in too, but the reaction is safe for both.*
If you didn't get a gas yet, don't. Just build queens, spines and sim city with evo if needed. It's fairly easy to stop and if you don't have gas early on, take double gas later on. You have the option to go straight to roaches from this point, since the early game baneling / slings war is most likely over after his failed attack.
How to defend a roach/ling/bane attack pre-lair. + Show Spoiler +When you are getting your tech out, there is a moment where you don't have many units, especially if you are going mutalisks. You have zerglings, and that's it, and not a ton of them too. When you scout that you're gonna get all-in'd, if you're going mutalisks, build around ten spine crawlers. Might be a bit overkill, you can gauge if you need less, but the idea is there, a bunch of spines. Make banelings too to prevent his banelings to damage the spines, or even target clumped up roaches, and let spines/lings finish the job. Wait until all of his banelings are dead before engaging with lings, and try to snipe his banes with queens too if he's not careful.
If you are going 2 bases infestor, you should always have a roach warren, so pump roaches as fast as possible and throw a few spines if you are not safe. What are good mid-game transitions / strategies? + Show Spoiler +Either fast third base, with prolonged ling/banelings war phase (getting +1 carapace is good with that) or fast lair.
If you are going fast lair, there are two choices that make the most sense. Infestors or mutas. You could also go fast roach speed into pressure into third, but less common.
With fast mutas, you have to watch for roach/ling/bling attack pre-muta (go check out the spoiler just above). Other than that, you are most likely the aggressor. You always want to have lings with your mutas, try to put the pressure on his third then drone up yours and transition to infestors / roaches / upgrades. Roaches should only be pumped when needed. Make a few for defense only at first.
If you go infestors right away, it's important to get burrow and some spines. You are not going to be aggressive any time soon. You might wanna poke with small group of roaches to stretch your opponent's multitasking, but other than that, this is going to be a pretty passive game. How to play mutas vs mutas? + Show Spoiler +Armor upgrades. They are necessary if you both don't transition right away to infestors. There are some games where both players were going mutas, and one transitioned to infestors right away. This is a huge gamble and unless you have a good amount of defenses (queens, spores banelings and/or roaches) it is really unsafe. Most of the time both players are stuck building more mutas. If you have a third and your opponent doesn't you should always mine only the gas and keep the pressure on until you overrun him with mutas . Also, you get +2 carapace before +1 flyer attack, unless you are going for a very fast timing to hit before he has carapace level 2. Split map, unable to attack into huge concaves + spines + fungals, what to do? + Show Spoiler +We've all been into those situations in a ZvZ where attacking is flat out stupid. You can't move out with you're whole, expensive army, right?
There are ways to play in this situation. Basically, when you are maxed out and on 5 bases, there is no reason to stop being active and be lazy. You can either transition to Broodlords (which I highly dislike on most maps) or go harass oriented. I think the best way to play late game ZvZ is
a) Infestor drops. IT or fungals, your choice. Leave them safe in the overlords when you don't use them.
b) Nyduses.
c) Small roach drops
All of the above will take your opponent out of position, most likely. At almost all level, he will send his whole army to deal with a three overlords drop. Even at GM level, I see some zergs panic versus drops (especially if you bring empty overlords as well to fake bigger drop.) You can then scout with an overseer the middle (let's say on daybreak) and if he doesn't have nothing there, flood the place with IT and attack, when he will come back, all the eggs will have hatched and he will lose the center base. You can get a huge concave on him and most of the time win this simply, but don't hope on it. : How to defend the sentry/immortal all-in? + Show Spoiler +Well there has been a lot of discussion on this. There is already a full thread on this : Mavvie's Thread so I won't write too much about this. I'll recap some crucial information: The move out happens at 9ish minutes. You need to scout third and fourth gas timing (always in ZvP) You need to burn forcefield energy, engage as many time as possible and retreat. Make him uncomfortable moving out on the map. If the protoss goes unengaged so far and marches to your third/nat, you will most probably lose. How to deal with 11 gate blink stalker (3 nexus)? + Show Spoiler +This build is the follow up to a super greedy protoss third base, usually executed on Entombed Valley (because the map let the protoss secure a third so easily.) Usually you can tell by high stalker count / no robo, forge spinning (+2 wep). It hits surprisingly fast for a three bases build. You cannot saturate a fourth base. You're almost guaranteed to lose it and it's totally fine to sacrifice it. You need to build spines at your third and natural, infestors and have good amount of upgrades on your lings (2/2 helps, but usually you're at 1/1 at this time which is not bad at all). Try to mix in as little roaches as you can (depending on zealot count / your armor upgrades (+2 carapace you almost don't need roaches)) and build up your infestor count while teching to hive. This is a complete all in by protoss and he has nothing else at home except some decent upgrades. I would imagine the transition for P would be templar since he already has the Twilight Council. : Dealing with Hellion / Banshee. + Show Spoiler +If Terran is going Hellion straight into banshee that means one thing : he didn't get a third OC right away. I highly recommend skipping roaches, going double evo for upgrades and spores. You don't need to saturate your third right away, because terran is only on two bases. Make sure you have enough spores (scout cloak by 7:00) and queens, and build speedlings to prevent hellion damage. Also creepspread makes it really hard for terran to execute, because they can get their hellions trapped so easily. A spine at the third always helps too. Dealing with fast medivacs. + Show Spoiler +Usually, the lack of early gas means third orbital, but sometimes, terran opt for an oldschool build which is the 3 rax follow up into double gas (much more common in TvP.) The best way to see that is to scout the marine count. Early game, especially if you don't scout gas early on by terran, you can have your slow lings near his base without harm. You should just leave when you scout hellions. If you see the marine count increasing rapidly, it's either this build or a mass marine build. You can take a third (just cancel if it's mass marine) but you need to get a safety measure baneling nest. Also watch your main for drops as you can take severe loses. If you do opt for a third, do not drone heavily. Crush his first push / drop then you can drone hard.
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EPT
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. Also nice games vs TT1 and Succeed on HOTS. (I'm AslanCimbom).
