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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On June 14 2012 06:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 04:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
What is the optimal way to respond to a terran getting an ebay block off (like 10% health before I kill the scv, if it matters) If you get your hatch block you just have to immediately put your pool down. It just delays your hatch but it's not that big a deal. Produce 4 lings to clear the Ebay, put your hatch down and play normally.
Oki doki will try this the next rare instance it happpens =]
Do you keep making drones as well or stockpile some minerals?
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On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore?
Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup.
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On June 14 2012 05:19 PieTaster wrote:
How do you respond vs a protoss that puts a pylon on the low ground like a FFE but does double gateway or just gateway first and chronos a ton of zealots? Obviously you have to get the defense but what kind and when? And how does it affect the protoss?
Does it affects the protoss' tech timings, economy, third timing, etc?
Make a spine crawler immediately, and build queens and lings to defend. Opening double gate is pretty much an all in because the toss's cyber core is delayed which means his tech wont be available for ages so you can drone freely. Once you feel like you have a good eco, you can pretty much do whatever you want.
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On June 14 2012 06:18 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 06:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 04:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
What is the optimal way to respond to a terran getting an ebay block off (like 10% health before I kill the scv, if it matters) If you get your hatch block you just have to immediately put your pool down. It just delays your hatch but it's not that big a deal. Produce 4 lings to clear the Ebay, put your hatch down and play normally. Oki doki will try this the next rare instance it happpens =] Do you keep making drones as well or stockpile some minerals?
Play as if your hatch wasnt blocked. Do the normal timings etc. Make nothing but drones. Put down some static defense. Make queens. You should never stockpile minerals early game. Optimal builds should utlize all your resources.
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On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup.
Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves.
I also would like answers for "What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?" with emphasis on common goals and reasoning.
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On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves.
You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play.
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On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play.
Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win.
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http://drop.sc/197306
What do you think I lost here to mech?
I think I should have wait, also i should have been preperd for that push and start roach production earlier.
thanks a head |
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On June 14 2012 07:22 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play. Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win.
Hydras die very quickly to anything non-gateway, and are really only useful for defending.
The trouble with this is that if you do make them, you cannot chase or attack across a map with them, and they fall off very very steeply as the game progresses. That's the short answer non situationally-specific reasoning.
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On June 14 2012 07:39 KhAmun wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:22 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play. Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win. Hydras die very quickly to anything non-gateway, and are really only useful for defending. The trouble with this is that if you do make them, you cannot chase or attack across a map with them, and they fall off very very steeply as the game progresses. That's the short answer non situationally-specific reasoning.
How about for ZvT? Zerg is pretty limited in anti-air so I figured the hydra could potentially fill that role.
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On June 14 2012 07:45 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:39 KhAmun wrote:On June 14 2012 07:22 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play. Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win. Hydras die very quickly to anything non-gateway, and are really only useful for defending. The trouble with this is that if you do make them, you cannot chase or attack across a map with them, and they fall off very very steeply as the game progresses. That's the short answer non situationally-specific reasoning. How about for ZvT? Zerg is pretty limited in anti-air so I figured the hydra could potentially fill that role.
Overlords with army means you risk losing an army then getting supply capped right after, when the marines or stalkers shoot them down.
Drops don't work well for zerg because we generally need to overwhelm the opposing army. That last handful of lings could be the difference between a full surround and marines slipping back into tank cover, for instance. And in other cases, we're trying to defend with the minimum number of units, to maximize drone counts, so that 8 ling drop could have been 4 drones, and I know which I'd rather have.
Hydras are bad anti-air because they are fragile, slow, and become useless as the game progresses--I am repeating this because you clearly need to hear it more than two times. Corruptors are better AA outright, and they become BLs later; mutas are better AA because they can harass, and are mobile, and snipe tanks well, in addition to acting as decent AA.
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On June 14 2012 07:45 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:39 KhAmun wrote:On June 14 2012 07:22 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play. Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win. Hydras die very quickly to anything non-gateway, and are really only useful for defending. The trouble with this is that if you do make them, you cannot chase or attack across a map with them, and they fall off very very steeply as the game progresses. That's the short answer non situationally-specific reasoning. How about for ZvT? Zerg is pretty limited in anti-air so I figured the hydra could potentially fill that role.
Too much theorycrafting. If you play and try styles like these you're gonna have a bad time.
That's not to say: follow the herd, sheep. But most things you can think of have been tried. Most innovations are mainly timing based, not composition.
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Is there any push that terran can do to early damage or zergs are just completely safe now after the queen buff?
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how can i set up a ling proof wall at my natural?
should i put the evo chamber between a pair of spines? theres always a tiny gap either in between the spines themselves or between the spines and my hatch in which a roach or queen size unit can squeeze through
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On June 14 2012 07:22 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play. Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win.
Belial's ZvP guide has a section on it under Zerg all-ins. I don't think you will find a formal BO for it here, because it's dependent on a specific opening from Protoss and specific map features, so for most people it's not really worth the time to learn.
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On June 14 2012 08:30 6xFPCs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:45 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:39 KhAmun wrote:On June 14 2012 07:22 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play. Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win. Hydras die very quickly to anything non-gateway, and are really only useful for defending. The trouble with this is that if you do make them, you cannot chase or attack across a map with them, and they fall off very very steeply as the game progresses. That's the short answer non situationally-specific reasoning. How about for ZvT? Zerg is pretty limited in anti-air so I figured the hydra could potentially fill that role. Overlords with army means you risk losing an army then getting supply capped right after, when the marines or stalkers shoot them down. Drops don't work well for zerg because we generally need to overwhelm the opposing army. That last handful of lings could be the difference between a full surround and marines slipping back into tank cover, for instance. And in other cases, we're trying to defend with the minimum number of units, to maximize drone counts, so that 8 ling drop could have been 4 drones, and I know which I'd rather have. Hydras are bad anti-air because they are fragile, slow, and become useless as the game progresses--I am repeating this because you clearly need to hear it more than two times. Corruptors are better AA outright, and they become BLs later; mutas are better AA because they can harass, and are mobile, and snipe tanks well, in addition to acting as decent AA.
Corruptors have 7.4 dps while hydras have 14.5. I don't really see how they are outright better? The reason why I'm interested in hydras (other than them being cool) is that in HotS, they get an upgrade that gives them the movement speed they have in creep off creep. If that's the only thing they need to change about hydras, their speed, to make them viable, then why can't they be used in WoL with good creep spread + overlords? I'm sure and aware that the viper helps immensely with hydra strategies but I like the hydra too much to not continue trying to find their niche in the game.
I figure you could make extra overlords, and having them with speed upgrade allows them to be somewhat maneuverable. This will be something I'll try on my own at some point then.
I don't really see the logic behind the drops though. Midgame I don't see a few lings ever making the difference between a surround or not, just really positioning and timing. And once 3 bases are saturated I don't think zergs make any more drones? Unless you're expanding? What's the difference between a drop and setting aside speedlings for a counterattack?
Sorry for all the questioning- I'm just arrogant in my approach to learning more about the game.
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On June 14 2012 08:35 goFLiP wrote:
Is there any push that terran can do to early damage or zergs are just completely safe now after the queen buff?
11/11 rax is still pretty deadly. I think select is still consistently using it, I believe I saw him do it to catz on ohana in the nasl recently. Likewise bunker pressure off one rax is good. The main change with the queen buff is to openings with reactored hellions.
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On June 14 2012 09:49 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:30 6xFPCs wrote:On June 14 2012 07:45 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:39 KhAmun wrote:On June 14 2012 07:22 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 07:04 Kishin2 wrote:On June 14 2012 06:19 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 14 2012 05:05 Kishin2 wrote:
So I was a plat player 5 seasons back and now I'm starting to play again.
What's the current metagame and common goals for zerg for all 3 match-ups?
What's your opinion on the viability of hydralisks now that zergs in general have gotten better at creep spreading? Is there something else about them that renders them completely unviable?
Hydras are shit in all matchups except ZVZ. Never make them.
Keeping a few overlords with speed in your composition to spew creep appears to be something with a lot of potential, especially for a hydralisk build, but is virtually nonexistent. Opinion on the idea and it's viability?
There is never a reason to have overlords in your compostion unless you plan to do some drop based build. Not viable. Just spread creep normally with creep tumors. Once again, don't make hydras.
Why don't zergs drop more? How much has drop been experimented with? Theoretically it seems they could be useful in breaking siege lines in PvT. Since zerg is the 'mass units' sort of race, wouldn't that make them better for drop harassment and trading off?
Drops are pretty good but they leave you vunerable to counterattacks in the mid games if they arent successful. Most zergs don't do them now adays because turtling to lategame seems to be much more effective due to the strength of BL/infestor or Ultra/infestor compostions.
Finally, what's the current build order for lair rush -> spinecrawler siege for FFE protoss? Is it viable anymore? Don't ever do this build. It is aweful. The currect meta game in PvZ is to secure three bases as fast as possible, defend the protoss timing attack and tech to Bl/Infestor. Watch Stephano play to understand the matchup. Any reasoning for why it's awful? I'm kind of asking for reasoning than the answers themselves. You sacrifice your own eco to do a gimmicky build that is very easy to hold off. All a protoss has to do is chrono out a zealot and pull a few probes and the build just flat out loses. Taking three bases is just the better play. Alright, but do you know a build order for it? And any reasoning on why hydras are awful? I'm attempting to explore the game's possibilities objectively and not really too interested in specific things to do in X situation to win. Hydras die very quickly to anything non-gateway, and are really only useful for defending. The trouble with this is that if you do make them, you cannot chase or attack across a map with them, and they fall off very very steeply as the game progresses. That's the short answer non situationally-specific reasoning. How about for ZvT? Zerg is pretty limited in anti-air so I figured the hydra could potentially fill that role. Overlords with army means you risk losing an army then getting supply capped right after, when the marines or stalkers shoot them down. Drops don't work well for zerg because we generally need to overwhelm the opposing army. That last handful of lings could be the difference between a full surround and marines slipping back into tank cover, for instance. And in other cases, we're trying to defend with the minimum number of units, to maximize drone counts, so that 8 ling drop could have been 4 drones, and I know which I'd rather have. Hydras are bad anti-air because they are fragile, slow, and become useless as the game progresses--I am repeating this because you clearly need to hear it more than two times. Corruptors are better AA outright, and they become BLs later; mutas are better AA because they can harass, and are mobile, and snipe tanks well, in addition to acting as decent AA. Corruptors have 7.4 dps while hydras have 14.5. I don't really see how they are outright better? The reason why I'm interested in hydras (other than them being cool) is that in HotS, they get an upgrade that gives them the movement speed they have in creep off creep. If that's the only thing they need to change about hydras, their speed, to make them viable, then why can't they be used in WoL with good creep spread + overlords? I'm sure and aware that the viper helps immensely with hydra strategies but I like the hydra too much to not continue trying to find their niche in the game. I figure you could make extra overlords, and having them with speed upgrade allows them to be somewhat maneuverable. This will be something I'll try on my own at some point then. I don't really see the logic behind the drops though. Midgame I don't see a few lings ever making the difference between a surround or not, just really positioning and timing. And once 3 bases are saturated I don't think zergs make any more drones? Unless you're expanding? What's the difference between a drop and setting aside speedlings for a counterattack? Sorry for all the questioning- I'm just arrogant in my approach to learning more about the game.
Please don't claim that you're being objective if you keep talking hydra because you like them.
Corruptors are more mobile and more sturdy than hydras, you will rarely get full hydra dps, and never for long. Stats can be misleading, thus why theorycraft is frowned upon.
The hydra speed upgrade is a nod to how bad they are, and also comes at hive, where you have better options. Go try hydras with overlords if you like, I am sure it works ok, i have even used it a few times against double stargate builds that try to take a third. But what we're all saying is that there are better options in general, and that hydras are relegated to more specific responses.
Drops are fine, but they are expensive and there are often better things to spend 300/300--and that 300/300 is the difference between a drop and a runby. I know all the benefits of drops, lots of zergs use(d) baneling drops vs protoss, and roach drops against mech. But unfortunately, there are lots of reasons to avoid drops, the biggest of which is that a runby is a cheap alternative that's always available.
Your arrogance is fine, your lack of testing is what kind of bugs me. If you search, there is someone who went ahead and tried hydras in ZvT for awhile, and made a nice thread about it. I believe he ended up concluding that hydras are ok when used properly, but it is still worse than the standard strategies--but this wasn't at a high level.
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On June 14 2012 09:15 Frolossus wrote:
how can i set up a ling proof wall at my natural?
should i put the evo chamber between a pair of spines? theres always a tiny gap either in between the spines themselves or between the spines and my hatch in which a roach or queen size unit can squeeze through
Spines don't wall well. Safe thing to do is just add evo chambers instead. Otherwise, I think spines only wall when both squares of the spine are flush with a 3x3 building; I don't think spines wall with each other unless placed exactly side-by-side.
It's easy to to into a custom and test this, though. Very easy AI, and you can provide the zerglings yourself.
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Are mutas a reactionary unit or a unit depending on your style?
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EPT
