The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 280

On June 11 2012 06:07 Ryndika wrote:
Hi, I'm switchin back to zerg ( ~master) but I can't remember the early-midage in ZvT and ZvZ. I don't know at all what builds are now popular in zvt, especially with queen changes.
ZvZ the builds I did are right now outdated. I wonder if theres a build/opening for 2base muta and the standard 3base roachhydrainfestor play(and by that I mean a build that is good for taking 3rd base).

On June 11 2012 06:07 Ryndika wrote:
Hi, I'm switchin back to zerg ( ~master) but I can't remember the early-midage in ZvT and ZvZ. I don't know at all what builds are now popular in zvt, especially with queen changes.
ZvZ the builds I did are right now outdated. I wonder if theres a build/opening for 2base muta and the standard 3base roachhydrainfestor play(and by that I mean a build that is good for taking 3rd base).

On June 11 2012 06:21 Clarity_nl wrote:


ZvT most terrans I meet in master EU are still doing reactor hellion expand or 1rax expand.
As for the zerg side it's more common nowadays to get 3-4 queens and delay gas after 15 hatch and spreading creep like a madman to take a fairly early third ~6-7 minutes.
The most common midgame for zerg is double ling upgrades with a delayed lair into infestors. 3 base muta builds still exist but they are rare and hard to pull off, 2 base muta builds are pretty much extinct.
Marine/tank/medivac still standard for terran, mech is rarely seen.

ZvZ all builds that aren't all-ins can transition into thirds, but generally if you have a build with a third in mind you tend to delay roaches and work more with ling/baneling counter attacks if he tries to pressure with roaches.
Two base muta still exists but if scouted it simply loses to a roach timing or a slightly later roach/hydra timing.
More common in zvz lately has been the fast third into ton of spines with infestors into fast 3-3 melee and ultras.

Hope this answered most of your questions.

On June 11 2012 09:23 Neighko wrote:
Hi, I'm a bronze Zerg and I've been having some trouble with my gaming. I know I have a problem with floating resources and scouting. I have the theory down but I have a hard time executing it. Recently I've been having a hard time especially with ZvP and ZvT. I was wondering if someone could watch my replays and point out what I'm doing wrong and how I could improve? Thank you so much for your help!
http://drop.sc/195302
Me vs. Terran
http://drop.sc/195301
Me vs. Protoss

Thanks again!

On June 12 2012 00:20 XXhkXX wrote:
What was stephano's ZvT build? If anyone had the specific supply counts that would be cool, but was it hatch pool gas or pool hatch gas?

On June 12 2012 00:48 H0verMyr wrote:
Hey guys! I just started playing vs insane AI and I have a problem. I am playing zergs so as allways I started the game with 16 drones exp. I made spine crawler and with 12-13 zerg and queen I was waiting for terran. I allways lost the battle 'cose I have too less units. AI doesnt go for early exp just making units and I have problem to defend my natural. So here is my question; how defend exp from early terran agression.

On June 12 2012 00:59 Gosi wrote:

Why do you play vs insane AI? It cheats and the AI always go for like all in and then take expo so the economy is fucking wierd and the overall game is like retarded.

Anyway, to beat it you have to sack your own economy and make lings really early instead of drones.

On June 11 2012 19:43 Clarity_nl wrote:


Sorry for the late response MLG just happened so I'm sure everyone OD'd on sc2.

ZvT:
This is a replay where you 7RR, not exactly the best replay to see where you are at.
I recommend 15 hatching every single game ZvT, even when you want to cheese (although you really shouldn't at your level!).
15 hatch holds everything, the build you did autoloses to.... whatever freaky stuff he did, and nearly everything else.
Going roaches ZvT is fine although not standard, but going hydras is waaaaay too far out of the box.
Hydras are super slow off of creep, making them extremely defensive. They have high dps, but they don't have very much life, meaning that they melt to basically everything the terran can make earlygame (marines, tanks, hellions).
The more I watch your replay the more I can safely say you need to work on..... everything.
The first thing you should start working on however is some kind of idea of what you want to do, watch some pro replays and see what they do and get some inspiration. You don't have to copy them but you'll quickly learn what might work and what might not in ZvT.
Secondly is your macro, and what I mean by this is you're not spending your money as it's coming in.
For example the moment you have larva and money to use them you should, the longer you wait the more inefficient you will be. Queens need to be injecting constantly, if they do not you're going to have a hard time spending all your money.
Don't be afraid to drop two or even three macro hatches (inbase hatches you make just for larva) if you are floating a ton of money, or just expand a whole bunch.

ZvP:
Watching your ZvT replay I realize your problems right now aren't matchup-related, but I'll quickly go over this replay.
You do a 10pool but you do it the wrong way (only build a pool on 10 if you're going to do a rush, expanding behind it just puts you way behind), you're supposed to drop your pool first and THEN build your overlord.
Either way I can't recommend 10pooling nor can I recommend 7 roach-rushing. Sometimes it might work, sometimes it might not, but you won't understand the result either way and therefore you won't learn anything other than how to do these specific two rushes.

Good luck in sc2! If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

On June 12 2012 01:42 Neighko wrote:


Thank you so much! I think this will really help. I am definitely going to watch some replays. I have a few more questions if that's okay. I'm not sure what unit composition to use for ZvT. I have used banelings with some success, but after the Terran gets siege tanks and mobs of marines it smashes the blings before they get in range, and the marines destroy mutas. What units should I use? Also, I was reading about overlord sacrifice timings. If it said "sacrifice overlord at 7:00 would I send the ovie to the base at 7:00 or have it in the base at 7:00? And should I send it to the main or natural? Thanks and sorry for all the noob questions

On June 12 2012 02:27 Clarity_nl wrote:


Don't apologize for asking questions it's the best thing you can do when it comes to anything. :D

ZvT ling/baneling is extremely potent even against siegetanks, but if you have too many banelings and not enough lings then they'll just die to siegetank fire. The key is to try and engage with the terran unsieged, but if you feel you can take them sieged then you will want to attack from multiple angles. It doesn't have to be a surround or anything but don't just clump your stuff and a-move or the tanks will do too much damage.
Knowing when to engage a terran and when to delay that/do a counter-attack comes down to experience so just keep trying stuff and you'll get used to it.

When it says "sac at 7 min" it means your overlord should be next to his base, and at 7 min you move it in towards (usually) the center of his main. You can simply scout the natural with a zergling and if you can't then that means a ton of marines or siege tanks either of which is also considered scouting information. ^^

On June 09 2012 16:17 Servius_Fulvius wrote:


Your guide is particularly good for global learners, sequential learners, and "thinkers" (a la Meyer/Briggs). This makes for a particularly good text-book style guide. However, there isn't a lot of "active learning" in a guide. Those considered "feelers" and other intuitive and practice-based learning styles generally do not learn very well from guides (or, for that matter, lecture-based classes where you sit and listen the whole time). Practice partners are invaluable for these learning styles, but that's a resource gained outside the guide. Day9 is pretty good with active learning, especially #285.

I'm not exactly sure there's much you could add to cater to those who learn this way. Active approaches are the best and that's done through consistent practice. This is best done with other people and it is tough to find a good practice partner (or one that doesn't say zerg is OP -_-). The ladder is inconsistent and it could take a really long time to learn a proper defense for say, a +2 blink all-in. I think the best thing you could do is suggest good practice methods. Things like "play against a computer until you can get to 70 supply on three bases at 8:00 and with roach tech on the way and then quit" or "X is a good micro trainer" or "use an inject alarm for a couple games and then turn it off". A large amount of work goes into being able to play competently and things like this help gear us for the journey!

On June 12 2012 04:10 Belial88 wrote:
^ what i got from his comment is the problem with the guide is that it doesn't help on-hand learners. And I can't really argue with that or do anything about it in the guide, I mean playing more is always better than reading guides. I've stated (not in my guides though) that reddit, TL, streams, MLG, et cetera, just kills your ranking. The less you watch this stuff, the better. I've limited my tournament viewing to only a very, very select few GSL players, and that's it, and it's still hard not to end up wasting too much time watching.

I don't think he said my guides were bad, just a really weird "well your guides dont help those who learn by playing' to which I'd reply 'duh, please, don't read my guides, don't watch MLG, don't get on reddit or TL or gom, just play to get better'.

On June 12 2012 04:03 6xFPCs wrote:


So you're saying his guides are bad, not because they are incomplete or incorrect or poorly written, but because guides in general don't work for everyone. It sounds like you're giving the opening statement in a debate about learning styles in the near future, and it's bleeding into your sc2 discussions.

Why would you rewrite a guide to cater to active learners when they don't learn well from guides? Students in all subjects need to figure out how they learn best, and use the available resources that best fit their learning preferences.

On June 12 2012 04:10 Belial88 wrote:
^ what i got from his comment is the problem with the guide is that it doesn't help on-hand learners. And I can't really argue with that or do anything about it in the guide, I mean playing more is always better than reading guides. I've stated (not in my guides though) that reddit, TL, streams, MLG, et cetera, just kills your ranking. The less you watch this stuff, the better. I've limited my tournament viewing to only a very, very select few GSL players, and that's it, and it's still hard not to end up wasting too much time watching.

I don't think he said my guides were bad, just a really weird "well your guides dont help those who learn by playing' to which I'd reply 'duh, please, don't read my guides, don't watch MLG, don't get on reddit or TL or gom, just play to get better'.