The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 277

On June 07 2012 00:44 dynwar7 wrote:
Hi guys

Thinking about Zerg for a moment.

Is it true that for Zerg, generally, you mcaro up to have really strong economy, that is number 1 priority.

and then after that, you build whatever units counter the enemy's army composition right?

That is why most zergs are called "droning hard" that is because they like to drone up as much as possible and therefore have a strong economy, correct?

On June 07 2012 00:44 dynwar7 wrote:
Hi guys

Thinking about Zerg for a moment.

Is it true that for Zerg, generally, you mcaro up to have really strong economy, that is number 1 priority.

and then after that, you build whatever units counter the enemy's army composition right?

That is why most zergs are called "droning hard" that is because they like to drone up as much as possible and therefore have a strong economy, correct?

On June 07 2012 00:44 dynwar7 wrote:
Hi guys

Thinking about Zerg for a moment.

Is it true that for Zerg, generally, you mcaro up to have really strong economy, that is number 1 priority.

and then after that, you build whatever units counter the enemy's army composition right?

That is why most zergs are called "droning hard" that is because they like to drone up as much as possible and therefore have a strong economy, correct?

On June 07 2012 03:51 XXhkXX wrote:
I keep getting 2 gate proxied and idk what to do :/ I scout it out always, but what do u do in response???? spines fail, if u lose any drones ur essentially behind, counterattacks fail bc lings cant beat probes and zealots --

how do u beat it?

On June 07 2012 01:05 Servius_Fulvius wrote:


Hi



Oh?



Yes, this is true. Zerg's biggest advantages (strength in numbers, quick army regeneration, efficient high tech units) all require a massive economy. Cost inefficiency is the biggest disadvantage and this is also remedied by a huge economy.



Yes and no. With zerg you want to have your "dream team". For ZvT and ZvP that's infestor/corruptor/BL and for ZvZ it's (arguably) roach/hydra/infestor. These compositions can handle pretty much everything a late-game opponent can muster.

However, almost no ladder game is a "no rush 20" where your opponent let's you get this great composition. In ZvT, for instance, the terran can make banshees. This requires a deviation where you make a couple spores and extra queens. Then it's right back to the macro track. Sometimes there's a 10:00ish marine/tank rush. This requires zerglings, banelings, and spines to defend. Let's say there zerg has three bases, but terran makes a ton of marine/tank to try and deny a fourth. This requires getting the infestors earlier with zerglings and banelings to hold off the pressure. At the same time, one could see a small army due to greedy terran play and make a bunch of lings to punish them.

Watching what the other player makes and countering will always leave you one step behind your opponent. The overall goal is to make as little as possible to defend and go right back to the late game plan.



In a perfect game zerg will expand to 4 bases, get a ton of drones, get a ton of tech, and only get the highest tech late game units. This, of course, never happens. I mentioned before that zerg needs to deviate and respond to, say, mid game pressure. The deviation takes away from droning and teching, so once it's done the zerg player simply returns to the path.

Oftentimes commentators will note how a zerg player "drones hard". Let's say you're playing a ZvP and scout protoss take gases at the natural. This implies tech-oriented play so the zerg does not have to deviate and can make a ton of drones and scout a little later if an army is massing. If the protoss does not have any natural gas (strongly indicates a 7gate/+1 all-in) then the zerg needs to stop droning and start building a lot of units to hold the all-in.

Now if a player all-ins and fails the zerg can either mass up a ton of units and try to win or go back to droning and teching. In ZvZ let's say a 2 banelings take out 5 drones in a mineral line. The player with the drone lead can mass a huge army knowing their economic advantage can overwhelm their opponent, or maintain an economic lead and try to win with a higher tech army. The latter gives the opponent time to come back, so most prefer to outright kill them.

On June 07 2012 01:05 Servius_Fulvius wrote:


Hi



Oh?



Yes, this is true. Zerg's biggest advantages (strength in numbers, quick army regeneration, efficient high tech units) all require a massive economy. Cost inefficiency is the biggest disadvantage and this is also remedied by a huge economy.



Yes and no. With zerg you want to have your "dream team". For ZvT and ZvP that's infestor/corruptor/BL and for ZvZ it's (arguably) roach/hydra/infestor. These compositions can handle pretty much everything a late-game opponent can muster.

However, almost no ladder game is a "no rush 20" where your opponent let's you get this great composition. In ZvT, for instance, the terran can make banshees. This requires a deviation where you make a couple spores and extra queens. Then it's right back to the macro track. Sometimes there's a 10:00ish marine/tank rush. This requires zerglings, banelings, and spines to defend. Let's say there zerg has three bases, but terran makes a ton of marine/tank to try and deny a fourth. This requires getting the infestors earlier with zerglings and banelings to hold off the pressure. At the same time, one could see a small army due to greedy terran play and make a bunch of lings to punish them.

Watching what the other player makes and countering will always leave you one step behind your opponent. The overall goal is to make as little as possible to defend and go right back to the late game plan.



In a perfect game zerg will expand to 4 bases, get a ton of drones, get a ton of tech, and only get the highest tech late game units. This, of course, never happens. I mentioned before that zerg needs to deviate and respond to, say, mid game pressure. The deviation takes away from droning and teching, so once it's done the zerg player simply returns to the path.

Oftentimes commentators will note how a zerg player "drones hard". Let's say you're playing a ZvP and scout protoss take gases at the natural. This implies tech-oriented play so the zerg does not have to deviate and can make a ton of drones and scout a little later if an army is massing. If the protoss does not have any natural gas (strongly indicates a 7gate/+1 all-in) then the zerg needs to stop droning and start building a lot of units to hold the all-in.

Now if a player all-ins and fails the zerg can either mass up a ton of units and try to win or go back to droning and teching. In ZvZ let's say a 2 banelings take out 5 drones in a mineral line. The player with the drone lead can mass a huge army knowing their economic advantage can overwhelm their opponent, or maintain an economic lead and try to win with a higher tech army. The latter gives the opponent time to come back, so most prefer to outright kill them.

On June 07 2012 06:33 phrenzy wrote:
Can someone tell me, because i dont understand.


ZvP :
I notice that he is going to try and go for an early +1 4 Gate attack, i shutdown all pylons.

He takes a 3rd a minute later.

I take a fourth and fifth. Add an extra evo and start melee and carapace upgrades take all my gas (was running on 3). And start teching to infestor/broodlord.

But all my games end at the 17-19 minute mark, when toss maxes out on collissi /staker/ sentry. I have 7+ Infestors, a bunch of roaches and a tons of spine crawlers. And i always die.

What should i have, more roaches? Im at 140/200 with a ton of larvae. whenever i make roaches they just get forcefeilded and die. Am i supposed to have broodlords already, i have done fast broodlords before but on only when flipping coins, no spines, no units.


Also throughout the game, as the toss is massing this army, they fish for a bit killing expansions literally for free, while im either waiting for infestor, or spire or hive because they have such a big army i just cant engage it. I simply dont know what i should have or should be making against something that seems so standard.

On June 06 2012 19:30 ncsix wrote:


Hey Otter,

Actually, I think you played really well, macro-wise, I think your judgement of your advantage is lacking and in general a few basic moves will really improve those games.

1) It cost nothing to send one ling to each mineral patch with your first few lings. Ok. In game 1, despite not doing this, you manage to clear protosses 3rd without much resistance. You had a few favorable encounters but you enjoy the macro game too much and need to press your advantage, especially after winning battles.

2) One encounter with the DTs really threw your large advantage out of the window. I think you probably knew there were DTs and thought it wouldn't matter and tried to ram your large force down his throat. Think you need to back up some time and realize its always a good thing to trade efficiently. This is for game 1 and 2.

3) Back to point 1, game 2. Having that ling or overlord at each mineral patch is a must. You had a great attack, even though he had 2 Colossi at his natural, but the point his each of his other expansions is giving him the gas to make more colossi, each sec you let him have it reduces your advantage.

4) Game 2, after you realize he had so many colossi, I think you lost your nerves, because you still had the economic advantage. You needed to regroup and be more defensive, instead you sent patches of corrupters and a few infestors to their doom.

5) I don't think i could have done better macro wise. Burrowed lings, creep overlords at minerals, Overseers to get rid of observers following your army around, the next simple steps to better play. I bet you if you did those, it would have been very different.

On June 07 2012 09:03 dynwar7 wrote:
Lol funny first two answers But thanks for the helpful answer.

Yes, you mentioned my point. Basically the goal of all zergs, in general, is to go to late game, because in late game they will have many many bases, super strong economy, and therefore be able to build the units to counter the enemy's army composition, and then be able to remax on completely different tech, right? So for example, Terran makes mass tanks, you create tons of roaches. Then they all die, you immediately remax on zerglings/mutas,right?

If this is the case, then in theory nothing could beat zerg since they have superior economy (late game) and they can quickly tech switch to the enemy's army composition's weakness?