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Why would you ever go Ultras in ZvZ unless you're far ahead?
If you go Muta v Muta, and one of you goes Ultras the other goes Broods, the BL player wins by a mile even with just minimal BLs. ITs + Broodlings + spines (assuming it's late game ZvZ, usually spines everywhere) just make Ultras look silly with their AI. The only possibility I can see of Ultras is maybe hitting a timing window (assuming the Ultra player gets Hive faster) where you have Ultras and he's waiting to morph Corruptors, but even that is sketchy.
Late game ZvZ, I never go Broods. I just go drop heavy against a hive player and go Roach/Infestor/Corruptor (if broods). ITs+Corruptors+Neural(trololol) usually works out better for me than BL roach vs BL roach.
What do I do when toss does a cannon contain, like one pylon and one cannon on a map like Tal'Darim. Tried two base muta by expanding far away I just die to 7gate blink pushes.
Also if they do a three pylon cannon contain. Usually I get one spine two queens go one base muta and just take down the wall with my spine and then expo.
hi guys! anyone could give me advice on how to play 3 bases "non-muta" Z vs 2 base muta Z? i would like to avoid making mutas, and instead go for ground push. What kind of unit comp would you recommend? shall I wait for a 2 /2 timing? how to react when 2 base muta expands or double expands? etc.
On February 27 2012 00:15 Olsson wrote: What do I do when toss does a cannon contain, like one pylon and one cannon on a map like Tal'Darim. Tried two base muta by expanding far away I just die to 7gate blink pushes.
Also if they do a three pylon cannon contain. Usually I get one spine two queens go one base muta and just take down the wall with my spine and then expo.
Nydus is very good option and also drone thrilling tick Pull all workers click on mineral patch at expansion wait them to stack and then a click a pylon so all drones will hit it same time.
On February 27 2012 00:26 Macpo wrote: hi guys! anyone could give me advice on how to play 3 bases "non-muta" Z vs 2 base muta Z? i would like to avoid making mutas, and instead go for ground push. What kind of unit comp would you recommend? shall I wait for a 2 /2 timing? how to react when 2 base muta expands or double expands? etc.
thanks!
Get hydras or infestors and try to go for roach/hydra/infestor army. Both infestors and hydras allow you to take third base against mutas, keep atleast one infestor and each base and few spores. Scout alot every possible location on the map. Mutas are bad at direct engagements so try to force a fight, dont try to fight his army and spine crawlers same time. If too many spines just contain him on those 3 bases what he have by sitting outside of his base. Double upgrades is very useful, dont forget a overseer while containing. Spread out for good concave and to reduce the ammount of units what he can catch with fungals. Take extra bases during the contain if you feel safe, remember that with few infestors and hydras you can secure bases. Get 3/3 upgrades and extra macro hatcheries to max out army fast, when at hive tect get broodlords or atleast corruptors to counter his Broodlords what he is most likely getting after mutas. Make creep highway for faster reinforcements.
Most important thing is to limit the ammount of gas what he can get. 10 mutas is huge ammount of gas what he will be lacking from direct engagment army. If you dont allow him to take third base he will gas starve.
On February 27 2012 00:52 Tyrannsaur wrote: Hey guys is the 7 roach rush/expand/lair build stil viable? the one on liquidpedia? or is it outdated :O
Viable as any random cheese, if scouted you most likely lose if it goes unscouted you have very good chances of winning. It must do damege otherwise you are behind
On February 27 2012 00:15 Olsson wrote: What do I do when toss does a cannon contain, like one pylon and one cannon on a map like Tal'Darim. Tried two base muta by expanding far away I just die to 7gate blink pushes.
Also if they do a three pylon cannon contain. Usually I get one spine two queens go one base muta and just take down the wall with my spine and then expo.
Nydus is very good option and also drone thrilling tick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9CA9AahV1E Pull all workers click on mineral patch at expansion wait them to stack and then a click a pylon so all drones will hit it same time.
Nydus isn't a viable option above diamond. People will see you are on one base and expect it, it's a gamble. The drone drill might work but sometimes you won't see the things go down in time, not notice them, you'll be too late and it doesn't work well on some maps (Tal'Darim for example) as they all don't get good hits off on the pylons.
EDIT: I have actually tried the drone drill today and I checked the video if I did it correctly and I did. So I don't think it actually works anymore.
I just tried it. Walled myself in as Protoss, then attempted to drill myself out with 15 Probes. Worked on Shakuras in 25 seconds. You need a mineral patch in the extension of your ramp, else your workers will move back inside your base to try another vantage point. In order words, the distance from the blocking Pylon to whatever mineral patch you use to stack your workers needs to be the shortest for all locations within your main base. In the current map pool, you can't on Korhal, Valley and Metalopolis.
On February 27 2012 03:42 DarkWaffles wrote: I confirm the drone drill as been patched, Spanishiwa tested on stream few months ago.
I can confirm it hasn't. I literally just did it a few days ago on stream and it worked on shakuras plateau. Only works in certian positions on maps.
Also to avoid it from even happening I personally have a drone follow the probe so that I can put him on hold position on the ramp if I see him doing it. If I see a second probe coming I immediately pull 3 drones and put 1 at the ramp on hold position so he can't put a pylon wall.
On February 27 2012 00:15 Olsson wrote: What do I do when toss does a cannon contain, like one pylon and one cannon on a map like Tal'Darim. Tried two base muta by expanding far away I just die to 7gate blink pushes.
Also if they do a three pylon cannon contain. Usually I get one spine two queens go one base muta and just take down the wall with my spine and then expo.
If they are just putting 1 pylon + 1 cannon at your natural you should pull some drones to kill it. I don't see why zergs ever just let it complete as it would put you further behind then if you pulled 4 drones and killed it before it finished.
whats you average injection gap in lets say an average 15min game? (injection gap in sc2gears and plz don forget to mention if you have the convert sc2 time to real time option enabled or disabled)
It works if the wall in part is closest to mineral patch, for example it doesnt work on shattered temple as there is ledge wich is closer to minerals than the ramp wich makes the drones stack on the ledge instead of stacking on the ramp.
On February 27 2012 03:42 DarkWaffles wrote: I confirm the drone drill as been patched, Spanishiwa tested on stream few months ago.
I can confirm it hasn't. I literally just did it a few days ago on stream and it worked on shakuras plateau. Only works in certian positions on maps.
Also to avoid it from even happening I personally have a drone follow the probe so that I can put him on hold position on the ramp if I see him doing it. If I see a second probe coming I immediately pull 3 drones and put 1 at the ramp on hold position so he can't put a pylon wall.
On February 27 2012 00:15 Olsson wrote: What do I do when toss does a cannon contain, like one pylon and one cannon on a map like Tal'Darim. Tried two base muta by expanding far away I just die to 7gate blink pushes.
Also if they do a three pylon cannon contain. Usually I get one spine two queens go one base muta and just take down the wall with my spine and then expo.
If they are just putting 1 pylon + 1 cannon at your natural you should pull some drones to kill it. I don't see why zergs ever just let it complete as it would put you further behind then if you pulled 4 drones and killed it before it finished.
I can confirm that it's completely variable. Some maps it works (shakuras), some maps it doesn't (cloud kingdom), I've had protosses try to cannon wall me on every map pretty much.
the problem is, good opponents will only do it on maps where the drill wont work. someone did it to me a few days ago and i talked to him how often he does it and how often he wins, and he told me he does it on the ramps where u cant drill and his winrate was way above 50%.
He goes FFE i go 3 hatch before gas. I forgot to overlord scout untill very late which was pretty bad but anyway I was thinking to go Mutalisks untill i saw like 5 phoenixes, so i basicly fell into a very weird position. I didn't know how to respond. So i went more aggresive since he took his third(roach hydra composition), attack made me lose my whole army and he got his third base while i was still on my third.
Then he just got a deathball and rolled over me. What's the right response to this?
How should I open in ZvZ to avoid baneling wars as much as possible? My mid-game ZvZ is great, but a lot of the time, I get really behind early on because I take damage from ling/bling while waiting for roaches to come out.
On February 27 2012 04:04 Zeon0 wrote: whats you average injection gap in lets say an average 15min game? (injection gap in sc2gears and plz don forget to mention if you have the convert sc2 time to real time option enabled or disabled)
32 replays of stephano in korea have an avg game time of 12 minutes and 18,5 sec as avg inject gap. Mine for this ladder has been 13 min with 13,2 sec avg inject gap. Seems like i suck in other parts !
EPT
