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On January 15 2012 08:55 GriMHopE wrote:
How do you beat a 7gate blink stalker all in? I usually have 3bases up by then, with atleast 1 melee and 1 range attack. I have a roach ling composition, but even with that I lose, should i skip the upgrades and go for infestors or hydras with the roach ling composition to defend it?
No, just build more lings/roaches  Are you getting 2 evolution chambers for +1/+1? Try building only one (@~6:40) and stay on your creep and play defensively until you have superior numbers and speed roaches. Don't forget your injects! It's extra important vs 2 base aggression.
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Canada354 Posts
Masters player here. Anyone ever tried ling infestor in ZvT? I'm seriously considering this as oppose to muta ling bling. Thing is most terrans are really good at denying harass. Most games you can't even get enough scv kills to justify mutas. I know that mutas are for map control but most zergs end up building 20-30 plus more to replace the dead ones which is a huge huge gas investment. Was figuring with ling infestor you have much more gas at your disposal because you don't need 20 infestors to be effective. This leaves so much more gas for tech, ling ups. Although you are more vulnerable to drops, I would imagine leaving an infestor or a couple lings, or even building spines would suffice.
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On January 16 2012 05:49 Chinesewonder wrote:
Masters player here. Anyone ever tried ling infestor in ZvT? I'm seriously considering this as oppose to muta ling bling. Thing is most terrans are really good at denying harass. Most games you can't even get enough scv kills to justify mutas. I know that mutas are for map control but most zergs end up building 20-30 plus more to replace the dead ones which is a huge huge gas investment. Was figuring with ling infestor you have much more gas at your disposal because you don't need 20 infestors to be effective. This leaves so much more gas for tech, ling ups. Although you are more vulnerable to drops, I would imagine leaving an infestor or a couple lings, or even building spines would suffice.
Not sure if you have seen MrBitter's guide on this style, but if not you might like to check it out:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193058
It's a bit dated, but covers most of the points you raise.
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On January 13 2012 15:41 Amaterasu1234 wrote:http://drop.sc/91056I'm really having a tough time vs terrans that make a lot of marines and just keep making more marines. Given the rate at which they mine minerals, it's a literally a neverending stream of the most ridiculous unit ever. Above is a replay where I'm playing vs VPCry and, he gets a rather lucky 3 medivac drop on my natural (I see it coming a mile away but I have on player colors and can't see it until it's too late; is there any way to make that permanent/unalterable??)to take it out and also takes out my fourth with another medivac. Yes, obviously, this put me behind quite a bit. But I didn't feel that behind and I kept smashing army after army that he moved out. Anyway, I'm at a loss as to what to do vs this style of play. Mass marines with tanks for killing blings pretty much wrecks me 'cause blings suck. You'll notice at the end I figured a base trade where I wreck his eco would help me...it didn't...I just lost my army. I won't do it again. Feel free to absolutely analyze the crap out of it. I can use all the help I can get right now. Thx for your time and help
*cough* Ahem...still need help XD
Sorry if bringing it up is a bit premature...but...I assume most people only check back a page...
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Mid-masters Zerg here
I'm currently lost on the ZvT metagame when T goes mech. Is roach/infestor best composition for mid-game and broodlord/corruptor/infestor for late-game?
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On January 16 2012 16:14 HelloSon wrote:
Mid-masters Zerg here
I'm currently lost on the ZvT metagame when T goes mech. Is roach/infestor best composition for mid-game and broodlord/corruptor/infestor for late-game?
Personally I find fast teching to hive/broodlords optimal, whilst also getting a 3rd/4th base quickly aswell. Make roaches for small pushes that the Terran probably will try to do. If possible deny their third, if not then their fourth, past that you'll struggle.
Also Tech switches can be very effective, eg roach brood festor into mass muta.
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On January 16 2012 05:49 Chinesewonder wrote:
Masters player here. Anyone ever tried ling infestor in ZvT? I'm seriously considering this as oppose to muta ling bling. Thing is most terrans are really good at denying harass. Most games you can't even get enough scv kills to justify mutas. I know that mutas are for map control but most zergs end up building 20-30 plus more to replace the dead ones which is a huge huge gas investment. Was figuring with ling infestor you have much more gas at your disposal because you don't need 20 infestors to be effective. This leaves so much more gas for tech, ling ups. Although you are more vulnerable to drops, I would imagine leaving an infestor or a couple lings, or even building spines would suffice.
Ling festor is a very good composition, and one of the go to's in the ZvT match up, granted not quite so popular as Ling bling muta. If you want to watch replays of this at a very high level, stephano has several replay packs out.
In regards to drops, I find spines to be the best way to deal with them, but if your really good with multitasking then feel free to leave some lings at every base. I've heard that what Stepano does is patrol lings, which completely eliminates his need to react quickly to them, whilst also greatly minimizing the damage taken.
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On January 16 2012 08:02 Amaterasu1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 15:41 Amaterasu1234 wrote:http://drop.sc/91056I'm really having a tough time vs terrans that make a lot of marines and just keep making more marines. Given the rate at which they mine minerals, it's a literally a neverending stream of the most ridiculous unit ever. Above is a replay where I'm playing vs VPCry and, he gets a rather lucky 3 medivac drop on my natural (I see it coming a mile away but I have on player colors and can't see it until it's too late; is there any way to make that permanent/unalterable??)to take it out and also takes out my fourth with another medivac. Yes, obviously, this put me behind quite a bit. But I didn't feel that behind and I kept smashing army after army that he moved out. Anyway, I'm at a loss as to what to do vs this style of play. Mass marines with tanks for killing blings pretty much wrecks me 'cause blings suck. You'll notice at the end I figured a base trade where I wreck his eco would help me...it didn't...I just lost my army. I won't do it again. Feel free to absolutely analyze the crap out of it. I can use all the help I can get right now. Thx for your time and help *cough* Ahem...still need help XD Sorry if bringing it up is a bit premature...but...I assume most people only check back a page...
If your under the impression that banelings are terrible, then just avoid them and go for infestors and try your luck with those. Prehaps even a combination of both. You could also use it's to get the tanks to splash on the marines. I think you need to try using festors though, as you can do several cutsey tricks v tanks with them aswell (againts with it's and splash damage.)
Another point is that you could be getting out upgraded, which is why the marines appear to be in god mode. Possibly try getting faster upgrades, and contemplate switching unit compositions to ling festor ultra.
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ZvZ
I opened 14/14 speedbling and your nat has just been placed down.
My first 2 scouting lings ecounter 3 roaches and a queen at the ramp of the opponent and I have built additional 8 lings already.
What is your reaction?
What would you assume he is doing?
How do I prepare?
What I did:
-place down roach warren + built 3 roaches
-try to fly 2 ovis in but the got denied
-went for lair assuming he would go for burrowed roach allin or sth.
Replay
http://drop.sc/92684
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ZvZ 15hatch vs muta openings is too fucking hard. I always lose even though I manage to baneling bomb his whole natural drone line. Any tips what to do vs mass muta? I try hydra's infestor but it just doesnt seem to work... and before I can make my 3rd I am miles behind him even though I fucked up his whole natural mineral line...
I play in diamond but my zvz is seriously gold/plat league currently.
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what do you mean muta openings? 1 base mutas or 2 base mutas?
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On January 17 2012 01:06 Macpo wrote:
what do you mean muta openings? 1 base mutas or 2 base mutas?
2 base muta, so they keep making muta's and take a third because of their mapcontrol.
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my 2 cent low master advice / opinion :
There would be 3 standard ways to deal with this 2 base muta threat.
1. obviously, going mutas yourself. I skip this, but if you go hatch first, you are more liekly ahead in drones and gas in midgame, so I feel it would be a reasonable thing to do.
2. prepare for a roach timing push. If you push just when your speed and +1 range (and potentially +1 carapace) has finished, then you should be in his base just before his mutas arrive. When you are pretty sure he is going for mutas, it is worth it to research burrow. Overall, the success of this timing depends on your respective lair timings, and therefore on how the early game went.
3. switch for heavy gas units hydras and or infestors, while optimally taking a third. This may go with strat #2, for instance, you make a roach push, which ends up being half ok ; and then you add hydras, couple of spores, mass up units, go for +2 upgrades and push again a bit later, while sending zergling harass to his bases, especially his third.
this is for the strat. then if doing this you fail, it's probably because of something in the early game, losing fight, not macroing well etc.
I hope that helps
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On January 17 2012 01:50 Macpo wrote:my 2 cent low master advice / opinion : There would be 3 standard ways to deal with this 2 base muta threat. 1. obviously, going mutas yourself. I skip this, but if you go hatch first, you are more liekly ahead in drones and gas in midgame, so I feel it would be a reasonable thing to do. 2. prepare for a roach timing push. If you push just when your speed and +1 range (and potentially +1 carapace) has finished, then you should be in his base just before his mutas arrive. When you are pretty sure he is going for mutas, it is worth it to research burrow. Overall, the success of this timing depends on your respective lair timings, and therefore on how the early game went. 3. switch for heavy gas units hydras and or infestors, while optimally taking a third. This may go with strat #2, for instance, you make a roach push, which ends up being half ok ; and then you add hydras, couple of spores, mass up units, go for +2 upgrades and push again a bit later, while sending zergling harass to his bases, especially his third. this is for the strat. then if doing this you fail, it's probably because of something in the early game, losing fight, not macroing well etc. I hope that helps
Ok thanks ill try to work on it
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Been playing a lot of ZvP lately and I'd say 80% of Protoss do some sort of FFE or Nexus first. Since I play it so much I have a pretty good grasp on how to handle each situation after a Protoss early expands.
Now the other 20% of Protoss play a 1 gate or 3 gate expand and I have no idea how to play against it. When do I need to build units or take a 3rd? How do I know if hes faking a push or if hes actually attacking if I see him bring a probe with units to the center? I feel terribly afraid of Protoss pushes if he doesn't FFE that I either over make units and lose later on because a lack of drones or I make too little units and lose vs a 3gate push with 5 or 6 sentries.
Edit: Currently around 700 point masters
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1) how do you hold a 6/7 pool with a 14/14 speedling expand?
2) how do you hold ling bling pressure when you go hatch first?
thanks in advance
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On January 17 2012 02:07 zJayy962 wrote:
Been playing a lot of ZvP lately and I'd say 80% of Protoss do some sort of FFE or Nexus first. Since I play it so much I have a pretty good grasp on how to handle each situation after a Protoss early expands.
Now the other 20% of Protoss play a 1 gate or 3 gate expand and I have no idea how to play against it. When do I need to build units or take a 3rd? How do I know if hes faking a push or if hes actually attacking if I see him bring a probe with units to the center? I feel terribly afraid of Protoss pushes if he doesn't FFE that I either over make units and lose later on because a lack of drones or I make too little units and lose vs a 3gate push with 5 or 6 sentries.
Edit: Currently around 700 point masters
Its quite easy, if you want to take a third just scout him and check what kind of units he has. If he has a lot of sentries you could expect a push, usually I make some roaches/lings to prevent that or do a runby with and so he has to return to defend or else it will be an all in. And just take your third after that.
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How are you supposed to beat a protoss that doesn't do aggression and just goes for an early third after FFE on maps like Metalopolis, Shakuras, Shattered Temple, Tal'Darim and Antiga. He can just take an early third and shut me out using forcefields. Then I get stomped by his deathball. Masters zerg here.
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http://drop.sc/93168
Me vs a toss buddy of mine, I went roach curropter to beat his sky and stalker sentry robo....lost..as i sucked in dodging the ff's no doubt..
Vs toss, if he gets colossus, the only way to kill a micro'd colo is by getting curropters. But then with no infestor tech, stalker + immortal rapes roaches.. -.- whats up with that?!
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On January 17 2012 04:39 vahgar.r24 wrote:http://drop.sc/93168Me vs a toss buddy of mine, I went roach curropter to beat his sky and stalker sentry robo....lost..as i sucked in dodging the ff's no doubt.. Vs toss, if he gets colossus, the only way to kill a micro'd colo is by getting curropters. But then with no infestor tech, stalker + immortal rapes roaches.. -.- whats up with that?!
Stalker immortal counters roaches so what's your point?
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EPT
