The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 150

On January 13 2012 01:48 Grndr101 wrote:
Hello,

I'm new to zerg and have gotten aquainted with early game stuff, the mechanics of the race etc...

However I'm still struggling to find mistakes in my games. I'm wondering if one of you could take a look and point out what I did wrong. It's a ZvP on Tal'Darim.

Thx

replay: http://drop.sc/89792

On January 13 2012 10:20 Belial88 wrote:


Well, a 6 gate+1 or 7 gate comes at 8:30 and hits around 8:50ish, so anything more than that, like 7 gate+1 or 8 gate +1 will come later or weaker. If he has 16 sentries, it means he took all 4 gas and pushed later.

You should've seen he made 2 gates like he did. If toss doesnt take both gas at his natural quickly (you shouldve saw with your overlord, but thats why I recommend drone scouting), then you know he's got 2 gates and likely going to do 2 gate pressure. whatever though, not what your asking, and he didnt.

I recommend taking a single gas when you grab your third, for ling speed. Some zergs grab 2 gas at 5:30 (by that i mean nestea used to do this, dont know if he still does, i always feel 2 gas at 5:30 is too much gas not enough drones and too much stockpiled), but I'd recommend a single gas slightly earlier. whatever, not a big deal though.

You make your overlords too early. This hurts just as much as supply blocks. I know it can be hard to keep track of, but you really need to keep a mental note of when you make overlords, so you know if you have one making or not, so you know when to make one or not. Making them too early really cuts your drone production. You should know how bad supply blocks are, im sure you are at that level of play, so you should learn how making overlords too early can be bad too.

It's just an easy way to get ahead. I get you may be platinum or diamond or whatever, but it will really help you if you just remember (am i making an overlord? no? okay, ill make it when 40/44 comes up. oh word, im already making an overlord, i dont need to make one right now, ill make it when the next one pops so i can smoothly transition to 52 and 60.)

But making 10 lings, that kind of killed you. Dont do that. i get you want to work on the rocks, but either make a single pair of lings at the start of the game (yes, I know 6 lings maybe later may be better, but def not 10), or just morph a spine when hatch is 3/4ths done and use a spine to work the rocks. You dont need that 4th hatch that quickly.

I mean you are even on workers when you should be a good 10 workers ahead right now.

But whatever. What's most important is your overlord spread, and i see you are doing a damn fine job of that.

I recommend avoiding +1 upgrades until after you 100% confirm what toss is doing. It takes 160 seconds for an upgrade to finish, and even if you start it as soon as your 7:00 evo chamber completes at 7:35, you aren't going to have it in time.

I also thought burrow wasn't really necessary. For the same reason. You need to be massing units, not tech. You'll be lucky to have roach speed out in time. Against gateway pushes, you really need to be massing units. It's okay to go lair if it's a delayed gateway push, like sentry heavy, but even if you go lair, and don't die because you went lair, your lair tech won't kick in in-time. So be careful of that. Confirm what's going on first, and always try to make an overseer. I would recommend you sac'd those 3 overlords than waited for overseer though.

And I'd recommend that third gas when on lair tech, or running pretty on 55ish drones. Whatever though.

At 11 minutes you have 7 roaches and 35 lings. Your drone count is 55, which is where it should be. I think your macro is slightly off. Not the worst, definitely not the worst, but when you make that 4th hatch you should start the queen at 50% because the pressure will hit right around then and you want that macro hatch to be paying dividends immediately. You make overlords a little too early sometimes, but I'd say the biggest reason you are so behind is because you got so much tech.

Lair, +1, Roach Speed, Burrow. That's 400 gas. That could be a lot of roaches, or lings. Just too much tech, and none of it actually helps in the battle because he hits you before any of that completes. Not to mention his push was super late because he had somewhat poor macro (id say he played worse than you, but thats not relevant).

Panicking and taking 4 gas like that wasn't a good idea. You should've taken your third gas a little quicker, but if you had 3 gas you would've been just fine against that. If anything, take 4 gas. When you get your lair going, you want 3 gas going with mass roach/ling. If you hit your larva injects well, you'll have plenty of lings.

You are well and established, you really should've made some spines against such a late attack. But, it's normally not the case that the toss macros that poorly and attacks that late. Really, your unit production and macro are just too far behind.

There's not really too much else to say. You tech a little too hard, which cuts your unit production too much. You could benefit from making overlords more on time rather than too early, and you take your third gas a little too late. You first 2 gas are late too, but I don't think that's an issue because you are taking 2 gas at the same time, late, as opposed to 1 gas early 1 gas late like I prefer, or 2 gas midway like some pros do.

That's all there is to it. I dont need to see the battle. You should be way closer to maxed, instead you both have the exact same supply because you tech too hard and took third gas too late. Id say your 2nd gas was a little on the late side, not important. Hit those larva injects better by having queens out better (i just make the 3rd queen when 3rd hatches, but the 4th queen for 4th hatch should be on time). He just had a higher army supply than you, and it should be the complete opposite against a FFE when going fast third. If you know he's going mass gateway, you should've made pure units, and you should've even added spines.

Creep spread would've helped too. Creep is great against forcefields. Look how open the map is right outside your base, and instead you chose to engage in the choke.

It's not the worst game. I think you played fairly well, and it's quite obnoxious to lose to mass sentry like that. You were definitely better than that opponent imo, and it was quite exploitative what he did. But that doesn't change the fact that he actually had a way bigger army than youdid, and that didn't make sense.

On a side note, sentries are slow, and spines uproot and re-root just as fast as they move. If you know he's going sentries like that, spines are great until you have a huge army to overwhelm and kill him when he finally retreats and he can't do anything because he is forced to either die retreating or run into spines.

On January 14 2012 02:05 Fairchild wrote:
What do I do vs Terran when they play dirty and siege my 3rd from his own main? Antiga Shipyards >

I love the map, but that 1 little abusive feature is making me want to veto it.

edit: When I don't have mutas that is. Infestor ling bling -> ultra

On January 14 2012 04:21 Olsson wrote:
How do I beat stalker/immortal/high templars? I have no idea what composition to get. Since the only unit that can survive storms and kind of counter them is roaches but stalkers and immortals both rape roaches.

On January 14 2012 05:57 cocer wrote:
When a protoss does a FFE into 6-7 gate allin, how many drones should i have before i start making units? as of now i have tried to get all 3 bases saturated with 4 gases and then +1 speedroaches but it seems my army is too late more often than not..

How many drones are proper for defending a 6-7 gate?

On January 14 2012 07:16 BlackGosu wrote:
how do i win my zvzs in diamond league

On January 14 2012 07:04 Flonomenalz wrote:

You cannot fully saturate 3 bases against a proper 6-7 gate off of a FFE. You won't even have +1 done unless you get it before Ling Speed or something (which is an interesting idea...)

You should be at 3 gas, 3 bases, and around 55 or so drones.

On January 14 2012 07:04 Flonomenalz wrote:

You cannot fully saturate 3 bases against a proper 6-7 gate off of a FFE. You won't even have +1 done unless you get it before Ling Speed or something (which is an interesting idea...)

You should be at 3 gas, 3 bases, and around 55 or so drones.

On January 14 2012 07:02 Flonomenalz wrote:

It takes a long time to get that composition right, by that time you must have BLs. BLs are the only answer to that composition.

This is why I always go Muta/Ling these days, if they try to do a 2 base stalker immortal HT push, just base trade with muta ling and laugh. By the time they get a 160 supply army of it off of 3 base, you should have 5 base BL tech. Then you just win because there's no Colossus to limit Broodlings. I'd go BL/roach because feedback/storm just rapes Infestors too hard.