EPTMuta/Ling/Bling is very good against Terran, but I think Zerg has too many good options to deal with it.
[D] ZvZ - Hydra vs Mutalisk - Page 3
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throttled
United States382 Posts
Muta/Ling/Bling is very good against Terran, but I think Zerg has too many good options to deal with it. | ||
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Vorgrim
Korea (North)1601 Posts
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McFoo
United Kingdom180 Posts
If you are the first person to get lair then you should go muta because mutas have much higher mobility than hydras and will give you map control and will allow you to take your 3rd base much faster than your opponent. If your opponent techs to spire himself his spire will be later than yours so you will win as long as you match his muta/corrupter production (i.e. so long as you retain air dominance, gas if obviously very important for this). If your opponent techs hydra then build a banelings nest if you do not already have one and get the speed upgrade. Banelings are effective against hydralisks. As the player with the higher mobility you should expand away from your opponent because it will be much harder for him to destroy the expansion. As the player who is facing someone who gets his spire faster than you can get hydralisks. The Hydra den builds a lot faster than spire so if you are not far behind you will easily be able to get some hydras before he gets his mutalisks to your base (and he will have to wait to get quite a few mutalisks anyway because queens can deal with a couple of them). The next thing to do as the hydralisk player is to get an infestation pit as fungal growth is ridiculously effective against mutalisks/lings/banelings. When you have enough infestors (2-4 I suppose) you need to push your opponent so that he doesn't simply sit back with his map control and get too much of a great economy. As the hydra player, expand towards your opponent when possible because if you are moving in the direction of your opponent the rush distance will be shortened and the weakness of your immobility will be reduced. | ||
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
On September 13 2010 16:53 Geo.Rion wrote: hydra-roach loses so badly vs ling-bling-muta it's not even funny... with early and well used infestors hydra-roach is strong, but only then seconded | ||
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teh_longinator
Canada725 Posts
I always thought that Infestors made any army strong. I mean, nothing beats massing 30 Infestors and spitting Infested Terran out in their mineral lines  | ||
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PovGosse
Belgium6 Posts
 I seem to always be stuck in my one base, unable to take the initiative and only defend while my opponent controls the entire map with speedlings and mutas. When going hydra/roach, would a nydus to the opponent's base be a viable offensive action vs mutas ? How do you expand as hydra/roach user ? How do you split your army ? The map where i have the most problems is desert oasis as it takes so long to reach opponent's base by ground. | ||
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KaMaji
37 Posts
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CidO
United States695 Posts
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Hoods
United States2 Posts
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
while ling bling into muta is the "norm" for most zergs since it is so effective, if you face a zerg who gets a couple infestor out, FG will rape it harder then immortals do roaches. | ||
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Hunch
Canada336 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
If your opponent manages to get a good ball of hydras and get 3+ infestors, your mutas and banelings will never touch his army. fungal growth on banelings stops them cold, and does the same thing to mutas. All it takes is one good fungal growth and you just lost your ball of 20 mutas. At that point the game is basically over. With well-placed spores and 1-2 extra queens, you can't really harass at all with mutas until you build up a huge ball, at which point your opponent will have infestors out. | ||
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Tenda
United States146 Posts
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SCdinner
Canada516 Posts
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throttled
United States382 Posts
On September 13 2010 23:18 PovGosse wrote: Whenever i go hydra/roach and i leave my base to push, i utterly got destroyed by mutas that are raping my drones I seem to always be stuck in my one base, unable to take the initiative and only defend while my opponent controls the entire map with speedlings and mutas. When going hydra/roach, would a nydus to the opponent's base be a viable offensive action vs mutas ? How do you expand as hydra/roach user ? How do you split your army ? The map where i have the most problems is desert oasis as it takes so long to reach opponent's base by ground. Well first you should expand early vs zerg, early pressure from zerg is super easy to deal with, especially if you're planning to go roach/hydra/infestor since roaches are already part of your tech. If you have infestors, you hardly need anything to defend a muta harass as long as it's reasonable size (5-10), as I said before with minimal micro 1 infestor plus 2-3 hydras defend it with ease. I would have two squads like this on DO though, since the natural is a long way away. On maps with close natural you only really need 1 of these "Muta defense squads." I would imagine a nydus would work well on DO, but on most maps I wouldn't say it's necessary because you've been spreading creep though whole game. Hydras and not stupidly slow on creep and speed roaches are actually pretty fast. If you hold off harass long enough you should have a Zerg ball + 2-3 infestors that can slice through muta/ling/bling like a cutco knife through ice cream. I usually take my third after the first harass is shut down. The nice thing about infestors + hydras holding off harass is you don't just hold it off, you kill the units altogether. After that first harass they don't have much (You should have enough roaches to deal with sling/bling pushes at this point). Muta build RELY on harass. If you can minimize the damage, you win. | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
On September 13 2010 02:38 Zerksys wrote: Problem with this is that I'd just run my banelings past ur queens and take out the mineral line. I've tried this before too and it doesn't work out so well for me. Maybe you've been able to make it work though. The timing works out well. You basically get 2 queens and block your ramp with them, and standard ling/bling falls to it. There is a Day[9] daily about it. I have not lost to ling/bling/muta since doing it. Queens are far more beastly than people give them credit for, and are actually better against ling/bling than roaches are. | ||
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
On September 13 2010 00:55 Grimjim wrote: Roach Hydra Infestor has never seen me lose to Muta/Baneling. Fungal growth and a Roach wall stops the Banelings cold, and the Hydras melt the Fungal'd Mutars. Then they will panic spam Lings that are eaten by the Roaches. gg. This. My ZvZ is a roach openning, I can 95+% of the time take my ramp before hit the field, and 80% before lings get in my base, which get killed by my queen/initial lings. On close position maps, I usually Roach/Mass Queen. On far positions, it's roach/hydra into Roach/Hydra/Infestor I make 6-9 roaches, take my natural, get lair, gas up, and pump hydras/roaches until about hydra range finishes. I make extra queens. Once hydra range finishes, I push out. This push generally wins me the game against ling/bling/muta. While I'm pushing, I finish saturating my base (if necessary) and get an infestation pit. Pick up path glands, pump roach/hydra with 2 infestors and push again. This almost always wins me the game. On September 13 2010 23:18 PovGosse wrote: Whenever i go hydra/roach and i leave my base to push, i utterly got destroyed by mutas that are raping my drones I seem to always be stuck in my one base, unable to take the initiative and only defend while my opponent controls the entire map with speedlings and mutas. When going hydra/roach, would a nydus to the opponent's base be a viable offensive action vs mutas ? How do you expand as hydra/roach user ? How do you split your army ? The map where i have the most problems is desert oasis as it takes so long to reach opponent's base by ground. Pumping 2 queens per base, and making sure they're connected helps deal with this. Drop a spore crawler at each mineral line if you feel like your bases are too far apart. Nydus worms work very well with Roach/Hydra/Infestor, though a lot of people seem to think that if you can't get into your opponent's base with them, they're useless. Nydusing to the opponent's cliff over their natural is really strong, and is very hard to counter without infestors. Also nydusing to a spot closer to your opponents base can help with closing the gap to his base off creep (since Hydras are so slow) and allows you to send a few units back if he's muta harassing very heavily. The Nydus network building also gives you a place to hide your drones safely. | ||
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