EPTHigh level input on that?
[G] iEchoic's 1/1/2 Hellion Drop TvP - Page 17
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guyGOTgirth
United States76 Posts
High level input on that? | ||
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
u cannot really focus fire the collosiwith only 2 vikings because u got too little bainshees for his stalkers and zealots and sentries.. they will burn ur army before u can get the collosus microing away? When do u generally recommend to build tech lab + reactor ? do u stop building marines from the 1st barrac with no addonafter the push and add an addon ? | ||
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kying
United States6 Posts
On September 27 2010 07:59 MasterFischer wrote: What to do against 1-2 collossus against a gate army at your first push? u cannot really focus fire the collosiwith only 2 vikings because u got too little bainshees for his stalkers and zealots and sentries.. they will burn ur army before u can get the collosus microing away? When do u generally recommend to build tech lab + reactor ? do u stop building marines from the 1st barrac with no addonafter the push and add an addon ? I can't speak to the last 2 questions, but I read somewhere either in this thread or in the thread about the toss POV that banshees actually do more dps to colossi than vikings do. So, i guess sticking to the banshee composition would work out just fine. | ||
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ocdscale
United States61 Posts
On September 27 2010 10:28 kying wrote: I can't speak to the last 2 questions, but I read somewhere either in this thread or in the thread about the toss POV that banshees actually do more dps to colossi than vikings do. So, i guess sticking to the banshee composition would work out just fine. The main problem with colossi during the timing push is that they will do a ton of damage to your marines before they drop. If I scout robo tech during the drop, i will usually scan their base before i push. If I see a robo bay, I go harass with my banshees while switching over production to marauder and a raven | ||
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On September 27 2010 07:02 gillon wrote: What about FE into storm? Whenever my opponent goes colossi based armies, I have very little problems handleing it, FE or not. But HTs are the bane of my existence. Do I get cloak to always keep energy down? EMP banshees? Stop banshee production completely and transition? Thanks. Stop building banshees completely after HTs are up. Switch starport to a reactor and pump medivacs. | ||
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TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
On September 27 2010 18:52 link0 wrote: Stop building banshees completely after HTs are up. Switch starport to a reactor and pump medivacs. meh, i like ghosts mainly vs HT's get ghosts with cloak after you scout it, place a nice emp and GG no storm you win | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
Similarly, I was wondering if perhaps there was a way to commit more into the drop (since it's very hard for them to pierce the bunker turtle anyway). Perhaps by saccing 1 marine and delaying the starport a little bit to get a tech labs from the rax and research flames to do a 4bluehellions drop instead? Would the drop be too much delayed to worth it? | ||
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ale_jrb
United Kingdom72 Posts
I really like this build - had some success with it. However, I just played a match where I got totally roflstomped, and I'm not reallly sure what I did wrong. The drop was a total and utter failure - he saw it coming, and I didn't get a single probe... does failure of the drop generally = loss? But apart from that, I don't think I was significantly outmacroed, and I had a similar amount of units to the replays at the time, I think. He went mass stalkers, bypassed my bunker through the back, and I just crumbled. Help please? Thanks! http://screplays.com/replays/ale_jrb/10077 | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 28 2010 08:12 ale_jrb wrote: Hey all. I really like this build - had some success with it. However, I just played a match where I got totally roflstomped, and I'm not reallly sure what I did wrong. The drop was a total and utter failure - he saw it coming, and I didn't get a single probe... does failure of the drop generally = loss? But apart from that, I don't think I was significantly outmacroed, and I had a similar amount of units to the replays at the time, I think. He went mass stalkers, bypassed my bunker through the back, and I just crumbled. Help please? Thanks! Here's some things I think will help you out: 1) The build actually runs a bit smoother if you start the refinery after the starport instead of the factory (bolded as this is the most common build mistake I see). This will balance out your gas/minerals more and you should have more marines than you had instead of too much gas. This will also help with a second bunker (see #3). 2) I would definitely recommend dropping your hellions on the ridge of his base and running them in manually. I think if you had came down the left side instead (so not past his ramp where his army will most likely be), and dropped on the outer ridge and ran in, you would have had a probe barbecue. Dropping at the mineral line gives him much more time to respond and spot you, as hellions are faster than medivacs. 3) Unfortunately, blistering sands is a difficult map against brute-force strats like 4gate/robo. I would definitely recommend placing an extra bunker at your rocks with excess money after your starports. With a bunker + mass SCV repair, you can usually hold off. Hope that helps. On September 27 2010 07:36 guyGOTgirth wrote: I think the cloak is a great idea. I'm going to try that in the future. High level input on that? I've thought about this, and I really want to try just getting cloak and cloak/decloaking to <25 energy against just templar tech (no pheonix) and harassing very aggressively - dropping nexuses and etc. I think it may be effective, but I haven't got a chance to really try it out yet. If anyone tries it, let me know. | ||
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ale_jrb
United Kingdom72 Posts
On September 28 2010 08:28 iEchoic wrote: Here's some things I think will help you out: 1) The build actually runs a bit smoother if you start the refinery after the starport instead of the factory (bolded as this is the most common build mistake I see). This will balance out your gas/minerals more and you should have more marines than you had instead of too much gas. This will also help with a second bunker (see #3). 2) I would definitely recommend dropping your hellions on the ridge of his base and running them in manually. I think if you had came down the left side instead (so not past his ramp where his army will most likely be), and dropped on the outer ridge and ran in, you would have had a probe barbecue. Dropping at the mineral line gives him much more time to respond and spot you, as hellions are faster than medivacs. 3) Unfortunately, blistering sands is a difficult map against brute-force strats like 4gate/robo. I would definitely recommend placing an extra bunker at your rocks with excess money after your starports. With a bunker + mass SCV repair, you can usually hold off. Hope that helps. Thanks! Yeah, I totally forgot how BS was laid out, and that his army was probably by the ramp. Didn't know whether to abort the drop and try and run away, drop straight away where I was intending, or try running away in the medivac a bit and drop there... went for the last one; didn't work! :D It's a shame, because I noted when I watched the replay that his army was miles away, could have got soooo many and pretty much won there. Oh well.  I shall correct the refinery time, remember where to drop on BS and remember to build another bunker. Cheers. | ||
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Bonkerz
United States831 Posts
Looking for some info Thanks, Bonkerz | ||
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Ir0nClad
United States27 Posts
I got lucky with his probes going to his expansion where I almost lost my medivac on the way via the left side. My timing push sucked and I made too many depots, but I really came back with cloaked banshees and harassment despite there being 4-5 observers out. I think I'll be going straight into banshee harass as my marines come up for a push... At the time of this writing we are both ~14-1500 http://rsgaming.com/members/ir0nclad/112-TvP-IronCladVsAsberic.SC2Replay As day[9] always says in his casts, always use some harassment and fancy stuff to try to get yourself back in the game. cheers. | ||
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crom_
Canada4 Posts
Just want to say that this build by iEchoic is awesome!! Being a newb that I am (never played RTS before), and a lowly Silver atm. Yada Yada Yada.......But after weeks of watching Trump's vods and reading this thread (practicing the build as well), I have to admit, this build is very very strong vs ANY RACE. I have yet to lose atm, going on a 12 Game winning streak. I have been playing against gold, platinum, and diamond players and winning them all!! Just want to say thanks for this build!!! | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
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chickensnack
United States21 Posts
My version goes a bit like this: 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas 15 OC Pump as many marines as you can afford (Bunker is also recommended. You can salvage later) Factory as soon as 100 gas Tech lab on rax Swap fact and rax for lab as soon as fact finishes. Starport after fact finishes Research pre-igniter. Pump hellions Dropship as soon as starport finishes Once your 3rd or 4th hellion pops out, load up and head over. By the time you reach the enemy base, pre-igniter should be finishing. If at all possible, I recommend dropping the hellions in a dark blindspot in the base so they don't see the dropship coming and react quickly. Run the hellions in and target as many workers as possible. I do recommend having 2 control groups for your hellions, splitting them into 2 groups of 2. This will give you the best coverage possible. With pre-igniter, it takes 2 attacks to kill any worker. I would advise not to lose the hellions if at all possible, but if you managed to kill nearly every worker, then they've already paid for themselves two-fold even if you lose them. I also recommend that whilst you are roasting workers, you transition into tank tech since the tech lab is already on the factory. Also get a lab on your starport and get a raven or two out asap to deal with stalkers and continue pumping marauders and marines. Once you've killed most of the workers in the enemy's main, this would also be a good time for you to expand. In my experience, the drop can be a 50/50 success/failure if you don't have the pre-igniter upgrade. This is mainly due to needing 3 shots to kill any workers (4 if against SCVs actually). With pre-ig, it is always 2 shot kills and far more damaging. What do you think iEchoic? | ||
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H3r0
Canada3 Posts
This is exactly the build I come up with. The harass is incredibly more effective with pre-igniter and very hard to deal with for only a few second delay. If they try to move their drones, they will all die in one shot of the 3/4 hellions. In most of the case you can even save them all, repair at base if necessary and come again a little bit latter. When the banshee is up you can harass expo and base at the same time. I have a couple of other adjustment in my build: - I alway build a second bunker as soon as the first is full - I use a marine or suv to get the closest watch tower to make sure I will see a push coming. From my point of view those two points are mandatory as the protos will usually have a more important army and will be able to pass through your ramp. Pulling on time 4/6 suv to repair your bunkers will make the difference. Keep in mine that a very good harass will automatically put the adversary in a position of all-in. So get prepared. | ||
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Riot Janook
United States112 Posts
The main issue I have with that variation is that any delay in sending off your dropship will usually allow toss to see the drop with an observer. Standard toss builds usually have an observer in your base 5-10 seconds after you send the dropship (if you are using the normal iEchoic build). So, any delay lets them see it's coming. iEchoic: The main problem I have with YOUR build is a general front-door weakness just before/during/after the drop. If the toss is going 3 or 4-gate pressure, you don't have any way to scout it until you get your drop in, and thus won't know if you need a second bunker. The pressure comes before the drop. Even if you have a second bunker, you still have to have time to bring SCVs to the front to repair. And even if you do that, you need a wall off, or toss can just run by. My variation is to just always throw down a late second bunker while the dropship is building. Getting repairing SCVs in time is always an issue for me, I try to have a forward scout to see if pressure is coming. Lastly, I find the helion drop to be completely ineffective against a toss who is employing sim city. Like, 2 probes TOPS. Hm... | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:32 Janook wrote: iEchoic: The main problem I have with YOUR build is a general front-door weakness just before/during/after the drop. If the toss is going 3 or 4-gate pressure, you don't have any way to scout it until you get your drop in, and thus won't know if you need a second bunker. Even if you have a second bunker, you still have to have time to bring SCVs to the front to repair. And even if you do that, you need a wall off, or toss can just run by. My variation is to just always throw down a late second bunker while the dropship is building. Getting repairing SCVs in time is always an issue for me, I try to have a forward scout to see if pressure is coming. I've never really had trouble (exceptions being blistering sands and warping in the back on DQ) holding off 4-gate. It is really important that you are able to see the attack ahead of time. Try to hold the nearest watchtower, and if that's not possible, put an SCV a bit past the bottom of your ramp to get 3-4 sec warning. Keep SCVs on speed-dial. You should be able to hold off a 4-gate, I've done it quite a few times (not to mention people really stop 4gating at high levels because it's terrible PvT), but if you're more comfortable with 2 bunkers you definitely can. There are a few situations where the drop isn't incredibly effective, and I've been working on pulling back the drop to strengthen a timing push. I may modify the OP with these details when I'm done. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
I would say if I lose it's always because of the drop that manage to kill like 10 probes. Since I play fine against terran that don't drop but still go marines banshees I think I should always be prepared for it when a terran is not going marauders and place my units accordingly (since most of the time it's either heavy bio or marines + raven/banshees as the most common builds). | ||
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