EPT[G] iEchoic's 1/1/2 Hellion Drop TvP - Page 18
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Riot Janook
United States112 Posts
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:45 Janook wrote: Well, the build specifies building an extra bunker if you see 4-gate pressure coming. I totally agree, My question is: how do you know 4-gate pressure is coming? It comes before you can scout with the drop! Well, a big 4-gate push usually comes after your drop arrives. Anything before that tends to be kind of puny and stoppable with a bunker, imo. You can only have so much stuff by time the terran gets his first starport unit out. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
I've had a similar problem to the one you describe. But it primarily happens on Steppes of War. The difficulty on that map is that the Xel Naga towers are not helpful for spotting his early troop movement AND the distance between the minerals and my wall at the ramp is annoyingly long. iEchoic made the suggestion that you place an scv at the base of your ramp. This generally works, but on Steppes of War, I've had more success leaving a scout in the middle of the map. As soon as you see him moving in, bring your hotkeyed auto-repair workers to the wall. Sometimes, this is an overreaction; but with that short distance between bases and long distance between workers and wall, I'd rather gamble and lose some economy to avoid the threat of getting steamrolled. Finally, if your scouting probe in the beginning of the game doesn't live to see more than 2 gates go down, save your third scan and use that shortly before your drop to gauge his gate number, unit count, and possibly, any aggressive troop movement. After Day[9]'s Funday Monday on carrier rushing last night, the 1/1/2 helped me scout a toss attempt to rush carriers. After roasting every one of his probes with my hellions, he quit with the carrier queued up. This build is CARRIER-RUSH-PROOF. =P | ||
Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-153188.jpg) Thanks again for this thread, I am really liking this build (I really hate any 3rax opening types...) and winning on blistering sands really makes me feel the build is strong. Any comments on the rep would be great, the 4 rax marine stuff at end feels really weird but when I can't expand I dunno wtf else to do, and I mine out my main so fast with two OC MULEing leaving buttloads of minerals. | ||
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John Greenhoe
United States3 Posts
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
The nice thing is that you can transition and adapt very easily to counter anything. Just one question that i hope someone can answer. When i get the second banshee i build a second refinery to keep gas up but i always have way too many minerals. Am i doing something wrong? Im pumping out units and have at rax fax and ports and have even built extra buildings to dump minerals but i never can keep them low without queing up units. Any advice? | ||
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Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:27 eu.exodus wrote: thanks for this buddy. Ive been using this build for a while and its got a 90percent success rate. The other 10 is usually because i did something stupid like not scout or forget the bunker but otherwise very solid. Ive even been playing around and tweaking it against z and t and ive found that just a few changes can work just as well as against protoss. The nice thing is that you can transition and adapt very easily to counter anything. Just one question that i hope someone can answer. When i get the second banshee i build a second refinery to keep gas up but i always have way too many minerals. Am i doing something wrong? Im pumping out units and have at rax fax and ports and have even built extra buildings to dump minerals but i never can keep them low without queing up units. Any advice? iEchoic said for the 2nd gas 1) The build actually runs a bit smoother if you start the refinery after the starport instead of the factory (bolded as this is the most common build mistake I see). This will balance out your gas/minerals more and you should have more marines than you had instead of too much gas. This will also help with a second bunker (see #3). So if you get 2nd gas after the 2nd banshee that's pretty late, if you have way too many minerals just get the expo up ASAP from the spare minerals and more rax/marines, if he's pressuring you alot so you can't expo chances are he doesnt have any collosus or templar tech yet so marines are fine (I just get the CC into an OC so its rdy for the expo and can muule and keep mining the main and throw down more rax), if he's not pressuring you get the expo and additional gases up earlier. | ||
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
Edit : I nearly forgot to ask. I lost one of my games to a guy that had hidden stargates and mass canons when he saw banshees so i had counter pushing and really good void ray micro. I just couldnt quite get my marines to catch up and i think on most high groun mains it could hurt you if the guy has decent micro. I think if i had stims i think i would had owned them. Any way to get stim early on? When? | ||
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Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:43 eu.exodus wrote: sounds good. At one point i was expanding when I hellion harrassed but i think if I hold the expand and build another rax (reactor?) it could help dump minerals. I think I was focussing a bit too much on minerals like I had to do with other builds. Thanks. When I'm throwing down more rax there I honestly don't like reactors because P will inevitably get collusos or what I fear more templar, so marine become food. you've got the excess minerals so just get 2 naked rax because chances are later on you want marauder, at least that's how I feel. edit in response to your edit: I dunno I feel that stim timing depends heavily on the flow of the game, all I can really say, maybe iEchoic will have a better response :p | ||
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
See the void ray section, you just need to respond with vikings which due to range will force him to either run, or engage where your marines can fire. As a general rule whenever I have extra minerals I either expand or build more barracks, cant go wrong with more barracks, it really helps in the end game when your doing so many things and your minerals are getting high cuz of so many mules and you can just cue up 30 marines in like 2 minutes on 6-7rax, can make all the difference. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On September 28 2010 22:39 statikg wrote: I have used this fairly effectively against zerg as well, but the speedlings on creep are able to respond and kill your drop much more easily then protoss, so the drop doesnt work as well. You might be better off to just use a fast pre-ignite build and just run in as most zerg fast expand/rarely use queen to block ramp. This way you can potentially have a zergling roast when they come for you and you arrive at about the same time. 1000+ zerg also generally see your drop coming with well placed overlords (this is the real issue). Its possible to make a viking first and try to kill the overlords and then do a slightly delayed drop, I will probably try that idea out. Against zerg the standard 1/1/1 is probably stronger. Instead of making the 2nd starport, you can either research pre-igniter while making a viking + medvac, or you can go straight for banshee and harass on two fronts with banshee + pre-igniter / reactor hellion (your choice). This also puts you in a great position to transition into expand, MMM, or mech play Most zergs I see make 3 queens on 2 base (blocking the ramp with 1) in order to deal with banshees and hellions, but only very disciplined zergs can properly deal with a blind pre-igniter drop or banshee + hellion harass that early in the game. On topic, great job to iEchoic for coming up with and refining this build. This build would be even more deadly in a BoX situation when you mix it in with FE or 3rax pushes. | ||
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Goliath-sc
France44 Posts
My hellion harass killed almost 8-10 probes, scouted a robotics bay, so didn't go for banshee cloack. I also had two bunkers. Got streamrolled by a 3gate1robo push army composed of stalkers, 2 immortals who ate my bunkers, and somes zelotes to absorb the damage of the marines. For a lategame this build seems strong but protoss can just mass units it makes me crazy Any thoughts of advices ? I'll try to post the replay as soon as I go home | ||
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DeadZone
Canada28 Posts
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ale_jrb
United Kingdom72 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:25 Goliath-sc wrote: Have been executing this build. My hellion harass killed almost 8-10 probes, scouted a robotics bay, so didn't go for banshee cloack. I also had two bunkers. Got streamrolled by a 3gate1robo push army composed of stalkers, 2 immortals who ate my bunkers, and somes zelotes to absorb the damage of the marines. For a lategame this build seems strong but protoss can just mass units it makes me crazy Any thoughts of advices ? I'll try to post the replay as soon as I go home I have had this problem a bit. I think one of the key points that I didn't really notice to start with is that the bunker has to stay alive at all costs. The harass means he'll have fewer probes (especially if it went as well as your did) so the first big army is likely to be the only big army for a while. Hold it off, and your counter push should immediately win. This all relies on him not getting through the bunker though. Throw like, all your SCVs at it, and it should hold I think. | ||
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TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
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TheYellowDart
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:51 ale_jrb wrote: I have had this problem a bit. I think one of the key points that I didn't really notice to start with is that the bunker has to stay alive at all costs. The harass means he'll have fewer probes (especially if it went as well as your did) so the first big army is likely to be the only big army for a while. Hold it off, and your counter push should immediately win. This all relies on him not getting through the bunker though. Throw like, all your SCVs at it, and it should hold I think. I don't think you can just bunker yourself into your base no matter how many scvs you have. 2 immortals are enough to dominate those structures, paired with stalkers and sentries bunkers will just get steam-rolled. GS your units are only taking 4 marine damage ... 3 damage once you breach the shields. I only had 1 immortal. Look how fast it goes down. http://www.mediafire.com/?3t7nawiotaaaitv 1 gate - 1 robo - 1 gate will dominate this. As soon as the element of surprise is gone from the helion drop, its GG because you're just going to get out macrod from warpgates. | ||
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H3r0
Canada3 Posts
If you've been pumping marines since the beginning you should be able to hold it off. If it happen not to be enough we can try to improve the build by researching either "building armor" or "neosteel frame" from the engineering bay before sending the medivac. Would be interesting to see which one of those two upgrade is the best in this particular situation. | ||
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JaddF
Bulgaria16 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-153297.jpg) Opponent - Diamond league ~1000 points , 11 rank , 145 wins / 121 losses.  | ||
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