EPT[G] 5 Roach Rush: early game without the all-in - Page 32
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detact
United States4 Posts
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evilsaint
United States309 Posts
On September 14 2010 14:47 kmillz wrote: It is pretty freaking effective in platinum I am on a 7-streak right now myself. I am sure I'll be in diamond soon with this strat alone. Just gotta get it down better vs Terran. It seems Terran can counter it pretty easy with a bunker though. I have yet to lose to a Protoss using this :D Seems like you could just run past the bunker, assuming he didn't wall up with it? | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On September 14 2010 16:24 OdinPimphammer wrote: Be prepared to lose a lot once you get artificially ranked higher in diamond because of your win streaks. I ended up having to completely rethink the way I played, because it put me from Plat rank 1 to Diamond rank 1 about 800 + points. The 10 game win streaks went away pretty hard and I had to actually learn how to play. Now that I did I am 11-1 during my last 12 games in Diamond 700+ points climbing back up. Just something to think about. Winning streak still going, still in platinum, 11 games now, last 5 or so opponents are all diamond. I've had 4 games today where I had to transition because I got countered (2 terran 2 protoss) getting bunkers/stalkers, just want to add that i transitioned just fine throughout the rest of the game because i get an expo up as im pushing.. all games lasted between 25-40 mins and I can play just fine. I don't just use this to try and win outright but it is a very great tactic for FORCING terran into marauders/turtle and toss into stalkers/turtle. It's nice to be able to dictate THEIR gameplay, I don't think i have to COMPLETELY rethink the way i play..at this point increasing apm is probably my biggest weakness (70-90). I legitimately feel like i belong in diamond and look forward to the challenges ahead. Losing when i do get into diamond will make me better. Rank 3 Platinum 43-29 (~800) now, alot of credit to this opening. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On September 14 2010 16:42 evilsaint wrote: Seems like you could just run past the bunker, assuming he didn't wall up with it? I can't remember the games with the bunkers exactly but i am pretty sure they had them at a distance that hit roaches close to supply depot but i cant hit the bunker back due to roaches 3 range. At this point I generally power drone and try to keep him from expanding as long as possible, seems to work pretty good. | ||
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aaroB
Canada89 Posts
GJ Fistdantilus and GL! | ||
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Undercroft
United Kingdom166 Posts
Aslo when i see a toss going for phoenix when i bust in just makes me smile :D [edit] Also anyone have some replays of this build vs zerg? I'm just not sure how it'd work out against the usual zvz stuff (personally i'm an overpool evocrawler kinda guy in zvz myself, but knowing how to use this against zerg will help when i go against randoms that spawn as zerg) | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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thecatsmeow
1 Post
On September 13 2010 15:46 sandman_sy wrote: some french guy claiming a counter to this strat.. i have no idea what he's saying but i just look at the gameplay.... if you see this.. what do you do?? He's not claiming a counter, actually... Just happens to be a replay where it's VR rush vs 5RR ("contre" = french for "versus/against"). It's actually kind of interesting... I think he had mixed feelings how zerg used his 5 roaches (you could argue that he should've gone for the pylon, esp. after the zealot went down with the zerglings on the way), and he pointed out the mistake when zerg ran the roaches into the base, since they were just sitting ducks to that first VR as they passed through that long choke. So when that craps out, zerg is sitting on a dozen or so lings, but at least has the evo chamber and an extra queen coming out. The commentator says that those decisions are good, but argues that cancelling the fast expo was his fatal mistake... mostly because it was the only way he could've made up for his previous problems, most notably the econ hit he took for all those lings and generally mucking up his macro (note the 3 unused larva, poor use of injects, etc.) Zerg was doing everything else okay (including getting hydras) but was so far behind economically that there was no way he was going to be able to deal with the 8+ VRs. Finally, though his FF was good, his initial decision to fight the VRs off creep (and so arguably his creep mismanagement as well!) pretty much sealed it. The commentator also made the snarky comment that this is where the scrubby zergs would whine about VRs being OP or something, but that the reality was that he misplayed it. I'd be inclined to agree. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On September 17 2010 03:20 IPA wrote: This is just another option, it is not the savior of Z play. Too many 5RR zealots in here. I don't think fistdantilus meant this to be the "be all, end all" of Z openings. Try this in 1000+ diamond and you will get raped for free. 1100+ diamond myself. It still works. It is not the be all, end all but it is a very nice option even over 1000 diamond. My main use for it is as a transition off of the Dimaga build (speedlings with upgrades) when I scout a weak looking front (2 gate or pylons used in the wall on a close spawn map). Just remember it is not an all in, you need to set up your expand as you attack. | ||
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Svartstol
Sweden171 Posts
So i've been attempting this build, but failed every time and for some reason i can't see my own mistakes. My timings seem to be fairly accurate compared to the tmings of OP's replays. Could some of you more experienced players give me a few pointers as to what i am doing wrong? ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-150156.jpg) | ||
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Tabularasa
Germany116 Posts
1. you let the enemy scout your roach warren - this often means you will be greated by stalkers/marauders. Avoid getting scouted like that. In this game you were kinda lucky there still were just zealots, although you probably called up the immortals with that. 2. You didn't micro your roaches at all. You just stood there taking massive hits from the zealots. Kite them with move - s - move - s to deal way more damage than they do. Just because you heard roaches are good against zealots doesnt mean you can just run into them. Imho this was the main point you lost, because you didn't deal any damage with those roaches. And you NEED to deal significant damage with those first roaches, even if you just reduce the enemys army size. Suiciding your lings into the zealot-line at the backdoor wasnt that clever too - just a bad deal. 3. Despite focusing on getting out the roaches quickly, use your remaining ressources better. If you want to support with lings, get speed (13 pool, 13 gas if you want the first 100 gas for speed; 13 pool, 14/15 gas otherwise). Maybe expand as soon as you got the minerals for it after your initial roaches. | ||
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Svartstol
Sweden171 Posts
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Tjuhl
Germany17 Posts
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OdinPimphammer
Afghanistan40 Posts
I know that if us regular Joe's are getting good results with this that these tourney participants can probably refine it even more. Ahh well. | ||
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Svartstol
Sweden171 Posts
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On September 20 2010 00:04 OdinPimphammer wrote: I cant understand why more tourney players dont attempt this opening. It seems most are content with FEing and then banking everything on the ability to defend the initial pushes from P or Z. This is resulting in many losses for Z players in tourneys to lesser opponents IMHO. I know that if us regular Joe's are getting good results with this that these tourney participants can probably refine it even more. Ahh well. I look at tournament play and see a lot of parallels with high level BW play. The idea is to hold of a rush with the least amount of forces so you can drone more. 5RR is an opening, but not a very economic opening (even if it transitions to macro-oriented play, you're still behind in the worker count if your opponent was able to hold it off with the least amount of units on their end). I am curious, though, how far a player can get doing a well-executed 5RR... | ||
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KandLeMaN
United States64 Posts
Thanks for posting this build. I had problems showing early aggression as Zerg (albeit, in the Practice League) and I just used this strategy in my first placement match on LT vs. a Terran. It worked beautifully. I didn't execute it exactly like you, I had about 4 zerglings in my attack party along with 5 roaches and 1 trailing behind but I tore apart his marines and SCVs before he lifted off then I just quick teched to Mutas and finished him off. Good stuff. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
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KandLeMaN
United States64 Posts
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