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So a lot of top players use different methods to setup their control groups when playing as zerg. I'm a zerg player myself, and I'm trying to determine which style I want to use for my control groups. In this thread I'm going to compare the two different styles that are most common. I'm looking for your input on which style works best and please provide supporting arguments.
Firstly, some players set their hatcheries to the low keys (1,2,3) and their units to the higher keys (4,5,6 etc) Other players do the opposite and use their low number keys for units and the higher keys for hatcheries. I AM NOT COMPARING that difference in setups. What you choose to place on the low or high keys is not the subject of this post.
I am comparing two methods of grouping hatcheries as zerg here. I'm not interested in any other aspects of setting up your control groups.
The first, and most common method among top players, is to group all of your hatcheries into one control group. I'm going to refer to this as the "1 group method" from now on.
The second and much less common method that I've seen used involves setting each hotkey to an individual control group, often this requires the use of 3 or more groups in each game as players expand. This method will be refered to as the "separated groups method".
I personally been using the separated groups method for quite a while because by my logic it seems to be the more effective method. That being said, the vast majority of top zerg players still use the 1 group method which has led me to question whether what i'm doing really is most effective.
Let me compare the two methods here.
Separated groups:
Pros:
1. Can control the output of each individual hatchery much more easily. Meaning if you need drones at your expo but want lings at your main, producing the desired unit from the hatchery you want is much easier. This basically saves minerals by reducing the number of drones that have to switch between hatcheries.
2. Can specify the rally point of each hatchery separately more easily.
3. Can easily get vision of each individual hatch by double tapping the key (this makes using spawn larva quite easy, I don't have to control group my queens at all and can spawn larva very effeciently).
Cons:
1. Puts more demand on macro and can cause fingers to stretch if you have small hands like me.
2. Takes more time to set up rally points as each hatch has to be rallied individually
The 1 group method:
Pros:
1. Easier to macro
2. Easier to set all rally points to one spot so you dont lose track of certain units.
3. You can create units slightly faster.
Cons:
1. more difficult to rally each hatchery individually, this leads to workers spawning far from their rally point and having to move between hatcheries, which leads to lost mining time.
2. Harder to produce the units you want where you want them. If you want drones at your expo you either have to select that hatchery or risk the drones building at your main and having to transfer. The same is true of military units that may spawn at your expo where you wanted drones.
In my opinion the separated groups method is more challenging, but once you're comfortable with it I think it allows for much more control and specificity. I was surprised to find more pros using the 1 group method, as I would think pros would use the more effective method as they would have the necessary multi tasking skills to master it quite easily.
Personalyl I dont have much trouble using the separated groups method at all and I find it quite effective. I only struggle when I have 4 bases because reaching the 8 key is a big stretch for my small hands, so I typically combine my 4th and 3rd expos to the 7 key.
How do you feel about the two methods, which do you prefer and why? Why do you think pros choose the single group method despite the fact that they could master the separated groups method more easily than inexperienced players?
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What are you doing with your queens? I, and I'm sure many others on here, use 1 group for all hatcheries, and then separate groups for hatchery+queen. So 4 is hatcheries, 5 is main+queen, 6 is natural+queen, etc.... I think this method allows you to do everything you want to be able to do. To build from a specific hatch just hotkey+tab, you can also set rally point this way. If I missed the point of this thread let me know.
Here's a link to Psy explaining how to do this.
Psy explains hatchery hotkeys
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I use queens on 4, all hatcheries on 5 then 6,7,8,9,0 for separated hatches and then i use the backspace town hall cycle injection method.
Ie. a mix of both the 'types' you suggest above, although if I had to choose I would go with all hatches on one group.
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1 comment for the "Separated groups:" method.
About the 3rd pros.
You said: "this makes using spawn larva quite easy, I don't have to control group my queens at all and can spawn larva very effeciently"
I personally think that the most efficient way to spawn larva is the "Right Side Shift + Backspace" method. Don't you agree?
Ofcourse it will be uncomfortable at the start but later on you would get used to it and it would be easier..
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I use my 6 for hatcheries, 5 for queens, 6 7 8 9 0 for separate hatchery groups (hardly ever use this), 1 2 3 4 for attack units.
Thinking again, I should use 4 for creep tumors and tech buildings (while morphing)
To inject larvae, I use the 5 - v - RSHIFT(hold) - (backspace - click)(repeat)
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As far as queens are concerned I group them up together and then spit via the mini-map. Is this other method considered faster?
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I have all my hatches hotkeyed to 1 and my queens hotkeyed individually to 5+. I don't bother adding my hatches to the queen hotkeys, a double press will let me choose each queen's hatchery without any difficulty.
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Hatcheries on 1, queens on 2, units on 3,4,5. Maybe not the best or most effiecient but its what I´ve become used to.
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you should never never never have a building on anything below 4, if you do then you need to.fix it cuz you're making yourself work too hard
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I put my Queens on 5,6, and 7. If a game goes to 3+ bases, I put them all on one base and use the minimap to inject larvae.
For my Hatcheries I use a kind of hybrid system. I put all my saturated (unit-making) bases on 0, and my unsaturated (drone-making) bases on 9. That way I don't use up larvae that should be making drones to saturate my newest expo.
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On August 20 2010 06:15 spraynard wrote:What are you doing with your queens? I, and I'm sure many others on here, use 1 group for all hatcheries, and then separate groups for hatchery+queen. So 4 is hatcheries, 5 is main+queen, 6 is natural+queen, etc.... I think this method allows you to do everything you want to be able to do. To build from a specific hatch just hotkey+tab, you can also set rally point this way. If I missed the point of this thread let me know. Here's a link to Psy explaining how to do this. Psy explains hatchery hotkeys
This.
If one of your bases isnt saturated yet, lest say your nat, pres 6 tab sddddd, 4szzzz or whatever. It is alot easier than having to switch between every base. Then mid game where you are on 2 base and fully saturated you can easily macro up an army and inject.
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I put all hatcheries on 1 all queens on 2 ans use mini map injection for queens units on all other numbers
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Put all hatcheries on one hotkey, and whenever you make a new hatch that isn't saturated, put it on a different hotkey.
Build drones from one hotkey, army from the other.
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Here's what I use... I'm only a Silver Zerg but I find that this is a pretty solid setup:
1-3 - units
4 - all Hatches
5 - Main & corresponding Queen
6 - Natural & corresponding Queen
7-0 - Further Hatches & Queen
Early on I operate primarily with the individual hotkeys (5, 6, 7 etc) so that I don't make Drones from one base when I need them somewhere else. To macro as I'm engaged in a battle I use 4, but if I'm not in a situation where I am at risk of losing units I try to use the individual ones because it allows me to get a look at the state of each base.
I may consider switching up a bit though, and doing this:
1-4 - units
5 - all Hatches
6 - Main & Queen
7 - Natural & Queen
8-0 - Further Hatches & Queen
The issue is that my hands aren't the biggest, and they are often sore from boxing so it's not quite as comfortable.. But I do want to get a 4th control group hotkey...
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On August 20 2010 06:15 spraynard wrote:What are you doing with your queens? I, and I'm sure many others on here, use 1 group for all hatcheries, and then separate groups for hatchery+queen. So 4 is hatcheries, 5 is main+queen, 6 is natural+queen, etc.... I think this method allows you to do everything you want to be able to do. To build from a specific hatch just hotkey+tab, you can also set rally point this way. If I missed the point of this thread let me know. Here's a link to Psy explaining how to do this. Psy explains hatchery hotkeys
I have never thought of setting it up like this before, but it sounds pretty effective. Thanks for the post.
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grouping all your hatchz to one control group is something baddies do who don't have the apm to have separate hotkeys. there is no advantage to having them all hotkey'd in one and there are huge advantages to having them all separated.
1. you control units/drones at specific locations(you said this)
2. makes spawn larva a lot easier
3. if you need to put a building down at a specific location you can just hotkey to that hatchery
4. i can produce units at one hatchery and rally them to an 3rd while i drop the main(etc etc possibilites on that)
i guess i should say how my keys are setup
1,2 units
3 creep tumor
4-7 hatchery/queen
8 evo chambers
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Ive always done the shift backspace trick because I usually always get 1 extra queen than I have hatches anyways so that annoying part where queens mopve around the map is usually avoided
all hatches on 5
all queens on 6
creep tumors 7
upgrades 0
overseer 4
units 1-3
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i dunno, split hatches doesn't seem worth it, at least at my level. maybe as the game develops it'll become an edge worth having but i can't imagine it improving my chances by nearly enough to be worth it. only time i notice it as a problem is when the enemy is right at my doorstep and the shared rally causes them to arrive in place separately. which can be a problem. i dunno. when i'm perfect at all the much more important aspects of my play, i'll considering working this in.
right now my setup is hatches on 4, seers and nydus on 0, combat units on 1-3.. and that's about it. should probably start binding tech buildings also. and i didn't even think about binding tumors at all, that actually sounds like it'd come in handy.
i don't bother with queens tbh, there's usually one near each hatch and if there isn't they got killed.
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On August 20 2010 17:12 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i dunno, split hatches doesn't seem worth it, at least at my level. maybe as the game develops it'll become an edge worth having but i can't imagine it improving my chances by nearly enough to be worth it. only time i notice it as a problem is when the enemy is right at my doorstep and the shared rally causes them to arrive in place separately. which can be a problem. i dunno. when i'm perfect at all the much more important aspects of my play, i'll considering working this in.
right now my setup is hatches on 4, seers and nydus on 0, combat units on 1-3.. and that's about it. should probably start binding tech buildings also. and i didn't even think about binding tumors at all, that actually sounds like it'd come in handy.
i don't bother with queens tbh, there's usually one near each hatch and if there isn't they got killed.
it may not seem worth it now but the shit you do in games like starcraft becomes habit forming and it can be insanely hard to break those habits. its really really worth it to separate your hatcheries for the reasons i stated and if you don't start practicing it now you'll be sorry later when you become a better player and you're being punished for trying to clicking all over the mini map.
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EPT
