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I'd just like to ask how one would defend against a 6 or 8 pool, as lings will arrive way too fast for any race to handle other than Zerg. ESPECIALLY on maps like Steppes of War.
On Steppes of War, it just seems impossible to stop, other than 6/8 pooling yourself and outmicroing your opponent.
For terran, I'm guessing you would defend against it BW style, with scv block in front of marines.
As for protoss, you would normally just place 1 or 2 zeals on the ramp, but such a fast zealot just doesn't seem possible on Steppes of War.
Ironically, although i feel that zerg has the only means of defending against this cheese, zerg also has the hardest time dealing with it.
Any suggestions as to how one would stop this cheese, as by the time you scout it out it's already too late?
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Pull your workers and stack.
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6 pool + travel time is about the same as 10 pool / gate / rax, so you'll have your unit production up by the time he hits, of course as protoss or terran you can't spawn 3 food worth of units in 20 seconds but if you simply take your 1 zelot or 1-2 marines and all your probes/scvs you'll make short work of his 6 lings and only lose 2-3 workers, which is far better than your opponent will be doing eccon wise after a 6 pool.
time after time I watch beginner players let their workers get ripped up without fighting or kiting.
you should have about 12-14 scvs at that point and 1-2 marines, if you use the sc2 combat simulator to simulate 6 lings vs. 14 scvs the scvs will win while only losing 3 scvs:
http://www.sinfulgaming.com/starcraft2/deathchart.php
TLDR: double click an scv then hit 'a' and click on the ground.
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Handy tip: If you scout a 6-pool and know that your first Zealot won't be out in time, you can block the bottom of most ramps (anything default width, like lost temple mains, steppes mains, etc.) with 2 pylons, making a ling tight wall to buy time, without having to choose between having your Zealots spawn in your wall or outside of it. If you can, wall the Zerg's ramp with your scout, because less Zerglings will be able to attack the pylons that way.
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It's not that bad. For ZvZ if you go for something like a 14 pool you'll lose but you probably shouldn't be doing a 14 pool on a close postiion map anyways (12 pool latest I would wager).
Remember, on close maps you have close scouting. I always scout after depot/pylon/ovie to check my opponent's gameplan. If you get in there, see 6 workers immediatly try to wall off for P (T can fight with wokers and marines).
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One thing I hate is if you scout the wrong way on a 4 player map there's no way to see it coming in time, and it's basically an auto-loss unless your initial build could handle it anyway, like a 10 gate or 10 rax. Earlier today I went 9 pylon, 13 gate, scouted on 9, scouted wrong way on metalopolis, dead before I could react.
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how do I micro my workers? it seems like they don't attack at all if I just do 1a with them. do I have to pinpoint the target?
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1A should work.
Preferably, you want to try to move your workers to surround the zerglings, then 1A so that you get a better surround and kill the zerglings much faster. (and stop them from escaping)
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On August 06 2010 12:45 sikyon wrote:
It's not that bad. For ZvZ if you go for something like a 14 pool you'll lose but you probably shouldn't be doing a 14 pool on a close postiion map anyways (12 pool latest I would wager).
Remember, on close maps you have close scouting. I always scout after depot/pylon/ovie to check my opponent's gameplan. If you get in there, see 6 workers immediatly try to wall off for P (T can fight with wokers and marines).
Lol my standard opening in every ZvZ game is 14 pool. Lol if you scout on 10 with extractor drone, you'll see his pool done hopefully. Even a 14 pool finishes only a bit behind. With proper micro you can kill off the lings one by one relatively easy.
Wat i do is,
1. Select all workers, spam right clicks on mineral patch until drones stack and becomes one (lol).
2. WHen lings pull close, right click quickly on one of them. 14 x5 is 70 dmg, enough to one shot lings.
3. Rinse and Repeat.
OR you can just run around with your drones off creep, The drones are only slightly slower than lings off creep. That'll give you heaps of time for your own 6 lings to pop + queen. Remember if he 6 pools, your allow to lose like 5-6 drones and still be ahed. Not to mention, you can still plant a crawler with your scouting drone at his base. It'll at the very least delay reinforcement. Or at least forces him to pull drones off line to kill (which delays reinforcement even more later down the road). Obviously cancel when it's about to die.
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As for Terran u have 2 options.
1. Delay gas and go depot rax depot for the wall off as soon as possible and scout afterwards Its not a huge eco cut.If zerg arrives add workers for repair and u can hold it off with 1-2 rines.
On maps like stepps its not that easy since the rush distance is like 6 -7 seconds, but do-able nevertheless. And remember to focus fire! This is the comfortable way.
2. As stated above. A-Move workers to the lings and keep ur rines at distance. The funny thing is ur workers can create a surround around the lings. Eventually add a bunker. This is the normal way to deal with this, but if ur crisis management sucks go for option 1.
The biggest trick here is to have workers in ur control group so u can react fast.
At the beginning my setup is like 1.-4. wokers // 5. CC // 6. rax // 0. all workers. Ofc once my rines etc pop out i change that.
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On August 06 2010 18:26 Gnial wrote:
1A should work.
Preferably, you want to try to move your workers to surround the zerglings, then 1A so that you get a better surround and kill the zerglings much faster. (and stop them from escaping)
I'm not sure why, I 1a-ed my 8 SCVs and got murdered by like 6 zerglings? my micro is just so horrible omg...
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as Terran is ridiculously easy... set three SCVs to auto repair, and then select all scvs and attack the incoming lings.
You'll lose 1, maybe two at most.
He loses 150 min worth of lings and the econ advantage still goes to you.
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6 lings can't do much damage unless you let them attack and don't react... if he waits for more lings you should be able to see that and set up defenses...
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6 microed lings is a pain in ass since he might not attack but he will atleast force them away from the minerals or lose zerglings.
He will keep denying pylons / building scvs and gather enough (if its a competent zerg atleast).
Its ALOT about scouting and rush distances.
It wont be as bad on blistering sands as on steppes of war fx.
I dont know how I'd counter it in your shoes, cus I mostly fuck around in the 3v3 bracket >_>
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as a protoss, i can tell you that you won't get your first zealot even if you go for a 10 gate. all you can do is to block you entrance with pylons to buy time to get your first zealot, and once the zealot pops, use 3 probes and the zealot to push the lings( flight at the choke between the pylon and the gateway)
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On August 06 2010 20:57 TDC wrote:
as a protoss, i can tell you that you won't get your first zealot even if you go for a 10 gate. all you can do is to block you entrance with pylons to buy time to get your first zealot, and once the zealot pops, use 3 probes and the zealot to push the lings( flight at the choke between the pylon and the gateway)
Indeed. I'm a protoss player too, and allthough my zealot isn't out when his lings reach the front door, if you scout a 6-pool (which you will always do if you scout after pylon), you just need to block off your ramp with another pylon. If you built your gate near your nexus, it might be more of a pain, but the zealots will at least arrive right into the fight, and the lings won't be able to do much damage. Sometimes, you don't even have to pull workers off at all if your wall-in holds. Even if he smashes a pylon to get in, you're still so far ahead econ-wise that he might just quit the game if he doesn't win right there and then.
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On August 06 2010 14:16 phantaxx wrote:
One thing I hate is if you scout the wrong way on a 4 player map there's no way to see it coming in time, and it's basically an auto-loss unless your initial build could handle it anyway, like a 10 gate or 10 rax. Earlier today I went 9 pylon, 13 gate, scouted on 9, scouted wrong way on metalopolis, dead before I could react.
that's why I send an earlier scout on larger maps.
As long as you see it coming just before you should be able to defend it easily enough, with some worker micro and one zealot. If my first zealot doesn't look like its going to make it out in time I can just wall in the gap at the top of my rap with another pylon (I place a pylon and a gate at the top of my ramp v Zerg, with space for a single zealot to get by)
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On August 06 2010 14:16 phantaxx wrote:
One thing I hate is if you scout the wrong way on a 4 player map there's no way to see it coming in time, and it's basically an auto-loss unless your initial build could handle it anyway, like a 10 gate or 10 rax. Earlier today I went 9 pylon, 13 gate, scouted on 9, scouted wrong way on metalopolis, dead before I could react.
Did it ever occur to you that's an even larger risk for the zerg player to 6 pool on a 4 player map?
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On August 06 2010 21:57 ZannX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 14:16 phantaxx wrote:
One thing I hate is if you scout the wrong way on a 4 player map there's no way to see it coming in time, and it's basically an auto-loss unless your initial build could handle it anyway, like a 10 gate or 10 rax. Earlier today I went 9 pylon, 13 gate, scouted on 9, scouted wrong way on metalopolis, dead before I could react. Did it ever occur to you that's an even larger risk for the zerg player to 6 pool on a 4 player map?
this.
4 playe rmaps with 10rax/gate means your unit will already be out no matter if they go 6pool.
And if they go 6pool you just block with 3-4 probes / wall off with pylon.
The 3-4 probes is worth less than the all-in from the zerg. So there's nothing to worry about.
Make a forge + canon to prevent baneling bust and tech-up, win game.
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EPT
