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[G] PvZ Antimage's Void Ray Expo Build - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 20:41:35
August 08 2010 20:40 GMT
#81
this has been done against me several times, well not exactly this, but sort of. I think even in the beta, not sure though. It's quite strong
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 08 2010 20:46 GMT
#82
Lmao, stopped reading


Zerg tends to beat toss at pro level afaik. Zerg are really hard to play though so the lower you go the more in favor of toss it becomes.
Kalingingsong
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada633 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 00:28:40
August 09 2010 00:22 GMT
#83
question for antimage:
do you think a 2 gate opening can also transition smoothly into this build? (or would there be timing issues?)
Dess.JadeFalcon
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
August 09 2010 05:27 GMT
#84
http://www.sendspace.com/file/vpcufd

3 reps PvZ of me doing this build against my teamate GdR. It is a very effective opening and close to the 1 gate phoenix build I used to do.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
August 09 2010 07:21 GMT
#85
This build has made me very happy with PvZ. I actually can go into late game without having to do some 10 pylon 10 gate build to beat the Zerg into the ground early on in order to feel at par with them in the mid game.

Props again on this gem. No more all in's or timing pushes. The most important factor is the versatility it gives the Protoss in PvZ. Being unpredictable is always a formidable weapon.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 11:20:00
August 09 2010 11:17 GMT
#86
OK, so here s my insight, after watching the games.
Slush pwned you with solid normal zerg play so no need to comment on that.

The Machine game was quite surprising as he's a very good zerg and your opening did no demage wahtsoever yet you totally walked over him. That was mostly due to his failed attack and the map itself, after that you could have A-moved into his natural with your 3 colossi +army as he had nothing, but surprisingly you let him live and still beat his remade army without any trouble. So def. strong play there, my problem is though that there's really no need to do that opening on SoW as that map is so good for PvZ you have to do sg stupid to not come ahead from the earlygame.

Looky started the game well against you on Metalopolis, even though you got the best spawning spots for PvZ, but he got overly excited i guess and had a really delayed Lair and a reduced drone production which resulted in you having a way better economy. Switching to Mutas would have been a good idea but on those position even if you were cought off guard could have allined with your army and win.

The other Metalo game was realy poorly played by the zerg. Despite having ridiculously high apm his micro was lacking and he barely made drones. I was sitting there and watching as he didnt amke a single drone for 6 minutes in midgame, then making 3-4 as taking the gold, than nothing for 3 minutes, then a couple more then nothing till the end of the game. You constantly had +20 workers or more, and he ahd no upgrades would have been surprising if you wouldnt have won that. The advantage of your build is that the close-air distance spawning point now help you on that map, which otherwise i'd say it s good for the zerg.

The Greedo game, i really think he outplayed you and made the good decisions, even though you pulled ahead in economy and ingaged in the best possible area you lost your army and would have lost your newest expos immediatly had he made 2 overseers, which i'm sure zergs will get as default in every game soon.

My approach to your build.
What i do is the following. Not make many hydras! Your strategy as far as i can tell is about forcing him to make Hydras and countering that with Colossi + denying the new exps. I think if the Zerg doesnt go for hydras, at least not that many but Queens he's way better off. I havent seen you having more then 3 Voidrays at any point, that could be denied with queens only or possibly 4-5 extra hydras. All your oponents made at least 20 hydras early on, exactly what you wanted. Instead wasting your money on Hydras which you do not need for survivng as zerg, you could have queens and a faster Hive and 3rd and a lot mroe drones with a larger creep-highway making a medium sized army preferably from roaches and lings but hydras too if the zerg feels like it. I really think ultra-hydra is the way to go against that army.

Conclusions:

I think the positions helped you a great deal, i would like to see your build on Metalo and Lost Temple cross positons, Scrap Staiton, Desert Oasis. Your build benefits from the fact that most zergs overreacted/paniced and let you pull ahead in economy. You were almost always ahead in probecount, possibly because the Zergs thought you were allining/cutting probes. If the zergs realize that they can power drones more in early midgame i think they can stop it.

Cheers, glad to see some Protosses do anyting else then 4 gate allin and 2 base double robo allin strategy.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Shifft
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1085 Posts
August 09 2010 15:55 GMT
#87
Ok, after playing around with this a bit more I really like it in certain situations. I open with stargate pretty much every PvZ now, but rather than going phoenixes every game I will go for phoenixes against a faster expo (more opportunities to pick off workers with phoenixes than void rays), but against a Zerg that is doing some sort of one-base play or expands but pretty late I will open with 2-3 void rays before starting phoenixes to help crush any speedling/baneling or roach allin.

Stargate is really an amazing tech opening tbh, between phoenixes and void rays you can punish almost anything the Zerg decides to do while buying you time to get an expo up and tech up to colossus or HT.
=O
bjornkavist
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1235 Posts
August 10 2010 01:47 GMT
#88
Mini Anti-Mage Reporting in, Build Is a success so far! Thanks, good guide man
https://soundcloud.com/bbols
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
August 10 2010 09:29 GMT
#89
Hey Antimage, is there any reason to attack extractors with the void rays when you could hit drones instead? I couldn't find my opponent's overlords in a recent game and extractors have like 750 health, so I just started hitting drones instead. I was quite surprised by how quickly drones die to 2 uncharged void rays. With drones at only 45 health, there was no way for my opponent to react fast enough to defend with queens before I sniped a drone or two. Have you tried it?
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-10 13:12:18
August 10 2010 13:10 GMT
#90
Hmm, I've tried this build out in all my PvZ lately and it's pretty good. I have a hard time dealing with muta harass though since you are pretty vulnerable to it due to the void ray/FE. It also lets them get corrupters on a dime.

Also, void rays do like zero damage against the Zerg who gets 4 queens. It hardly cuts into their drone production at all, costs zero gas and lets them tech as usual. This strategy only works if they refuse to adapt to it coming. The amount of money spent on voids/stargate really doesn't pay off at all.
iAMtheGOM
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada6 Posts
August 10 2010 17:03 GMT
#91
this strat is poony

i pwned Gerbil with 2 Void Rays

either this start poony or Gerbil fuking noob
jluiscool
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2 Posts
August 10 2010 21:00 GMT
#92
I tried the void ray strat, went for stalkers/zealots/colossi but he chessed me with mutalisk then massed roaches/hydralisk and took down my colossi with corruptors



[image loading]][image loading][/url]
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
August 11 2010 05:41 GMT
#93
could you get away with making phoenixes instead and then go for an earlier push? i think they work better for killing queens and ovies and work out abt the same cost and time. i guess it will delay robo by 50 gas though if you were to get 5 nix, but 4 should work

or does this fe centre around vrs threat of being able to take out tech buildings ?
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2012 Posts
August 11 2010 06:11 GMT
#94
"Just like Sheth intends to make mini-Sheths with his infamous ZvP thread, so I will make mini-Antimages to combat those mini-Sheths."

You are scarry
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
theFBaum
Profile Joined June 2010
United States12 Posts
August 12 2010 17:39 GMT
#95
I completely agree with the OP. I use a slightly varied version, where I push with my 3gate and void ray army around the same time I'm ready to expo. I don't send my Void Rays out early to scout and snipe Overlords. I try to keep it a hidden tech, letting my opponent see my gate army. When my push comes, I usually hit the window where zerg is weak after pumping drones to his expo.

This may seem like an all-in, but I have my expo up, knowing I'm safe by containing my opponent. My push fails if the zerg gets 3-4 queens + roaches. The queens out range my void rays and the roaches can deal with my gate army fairly well. However, the queens usally aren't in position and they only have the extra queens if they scout my stargate.

If they scout the stargate, I still push, but cut void ray production and get a robo during the push.

Two things typically happen with the push:
1. I win out right. I'm able to kill his army and kill his natural. A lot of times my opponent will go roaches to stop my '4 gate push,' but with Void Rays and a little micro, the roaches melt.

2. If they tech early to hydra, they won't have very many, and I can usually snipe their natural before enough get out. I'll poke up into the main, but they will typically have enough at that point to stop my push. Now I have 2 base vs. 1 base zerg. Tech to collusus and gg.

A lot of times zerg will go ling muta which can pose a problem if I wait to long to push. But again, I push during a window, and they won't have enough to stop me from sniping the expo.
"Do NOT make me count to Zmer'Glars!"
Barbarossa_746
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2 Posts
August 12 2010 20:14 GMT
#96
On August 10 2010 18:29 iamke55 wrote:
Hey Antimage, is there any reason to attack extractors with the void rays when you could hit drones instead?

I can probably answer that: Your voids won't charge when they're hitting drones, at which point you're not going to be able to kill any units that come to destroy your voids.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotamy.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
August 12 2010 20:15 GMT
#97
Is this the build you used against me? :/
hehe
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
August 12 2010 21:28 GMT
#98
I read this thread a weak ago and then used it by mistake the other night with success. It plays alot like Gnial's PvT opener. I showed him a double gate, through cybercore down, dropped gate after hit scout left. Since it was on DO by the time I got there he had a bunch of roaches out... I showed my army and harassed a little bit and then hit his gas with 2 VRs while he tried to get to my base and race me with roaches. I just blocked the ramp and waited for another VR to pop and then he GG'd and left. Killing extractors so quickly with VRs make it hard for a distracted opponent to get any kind of anti-air. The double gate before core opening almost forces him into roaches and that was even without hiding the stargate.
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
August 13 2010 00:48 GMT
#99
Okay, after playing this build more on the ladder, it's clear to me that it's not very good. Every Zerg builds 4 queens against any stargate build and renders that opening nearly useless. They can power like fuck afterwards and just overwhelm your colossus/gateway pretty easily.

Just IMO, but I think 2-gate pressure is a much stronger build.
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-13 02:05:19
August 13 2010 02:01 GMT
#100
Strictly looking at your build order and choke placement, I guarantee the oversky build will kill you before VR come out.

13p, 15g, 100g speed + 2nd hatch

linglinglingling ~36 -> attack your front door. There's no way in hell you will ever have enough to defend or stall long enough to the flood of zerglings with this fast of tech.

Without fail, I immediately go for this oversky ling rush build on the Z side whenever I see a 1 gate core build. I have never lost a game in any configuration (including full building walloffs) when P try to rush VR this fast.

At the very best you get 1 VR out that can pick fruitlessly at the mass of lings in your base or go directly to the Z base who has 2 queens waiting for you.

2 gate pressure is a MUCH better approach to take for faster P expos.
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
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