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Hello,
I'm a fairly new zerg, and usually play 2v2 with my protoss mate. We seem to have a problem in protoss-terran matchups. Mainly, I don't know what to go for the most part.
I've tried to go mutas, but they get counter by their early "insane" amounts of stalkers. But that's sort of not the problem..
The problem is the terran. When he gets out just a *few* siege tanks, it's basicly gg for me, because I can't get close with lings, hydras get bombed, roaches are too short range to get close and get picked off by whatever else they have. The only good thing so far is mutas, but I have no way to really using them when they come with a mass stalker/marine build.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-135471.jpg)
Any advice (for anything, even macro) would be much appriciated. I'm fairly new as zerg and have no real idea of how to play them yet.
(My build order is pretty bad as well I think, but I can't seem to find the right "opening".. Obviously I transistion to whatever is needed for a counter)
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Based on the sheer amount of mech that is available for the terran player, the solution is:
Early game: surround with lings
Midgame: use tunneling roaches to get underneath the entire tank army
Lategame: When detection has become far too great, resort to A: heavy, heavy amount of micro with lings/hydras or B: broodlords
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Oh, alright... Thanks lad.
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Maybe you could try Ultralisks also, they do some crazy damage to armored units fully upgraded and have cleave. Watching a few of Day 9 dailys, he had an idea to produce extra queens for transfuse on units, maybe make a couple to follow the Ultras in to heal them.
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when a terran starts making tanks start expanding and put units at towers so you can see him move out. if he sieges outside your base and you dont know it your completly fucked so its very important to see where his army is at all times. keep expanding and turtle up. then basically watch for one of 3 transitions.
he will either put his money to heavy thor counts with marines and tanks and hellions. in which case id turtle to ultra ling infestor and crush him when he attacks.
or hell go heavy heavy tank with thors and marines and maybe hellions too in which case id say broodlords are better cuz they seriously rape thors in small numbers and tanks of course blow up insanely fast. when doing this you have to be careful with your lings keeping them away from tank masses and only using them to scout defend your base in baneling form and to harrass undefended locations. your lings become extremly important when he moves out his forces because they surround the enemy army letting the brood lords do dmg.
lastly he may opt to do a crazy mmm mid/late game push with a 200 200 ball of bio. if this goes unscouted your doomed however if you see it coming just make solid baneling ling infestor and pull off the micro when it hits you.
dont forget to have corrupters and hydras to defend your broodlords from things like vikings.
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In the late late game, I almost think it's better to keep your ground force inside of overlords and use drops. Dropping completely negates the terran's range advantage, and a small # of ultralings dropped into the middle of a large tank force will kill them easily.
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How do you get your OL into the middle of a T army with Vikings and Marines?
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On August 06 2010 04:38 pwnasaurus wrote:
How do you get your OL into the middle of a T army with Vikings and Marines?
Decoy overlords with em. The minerals you lose with that is less than how much you would lose in a head on charge.
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I'm only a random platinum player, so I may not be able to give the best advice. However, one thing that made me cringe a bit while watching the replay is the complete lack of intel. I like to spread overlords around the map so that I know when something is coming and can react accordingly (aka produce units and position myself).
I like to use burrowed roaches behind enemy lines and micro them so that they take damage take out a tank at a time then burrow them to minimize losses / heal them. Against Terran though, it's a bit harder because of scans. This has been said in numerous posts in ZvT when T goes mech, abuse mech's immobility. I mentioned intel earlier for this reason. When they are moving in the open is when you need to strike. If you've got hydras, make sure to micro them so that they are all fighting and not running around trying to get a concave that is impossible (too many hydras, not enough space) and same goes for roaches too. Broodlords are also a nice addition for damage + taking damage. The problem I have with ultralisks in this specific replay is because the Terran went bio/tank. Stimmed bio rip through ultras making them fairly ineffective.
This is just the Terran though, you also have to have something to help against the protoss. If you scout colossi, I prefer corruptors against them. Watch their micro and react accordingly. Let me look through my replays and see if I can find something for you.
On a completely different note, I think if you would have scouted you could have expanded earlier. You had the spare minerals and they didn't attack for quite a while. At that expansion, I also do a worker transfer. This helps equalize the worker distribution amongst mineral nodes.
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On August 04 2010 09:26 TheJet wrote:
Based on the sheer amount of mech that is available for the terran player, the solution is:
Midgame: use tunneling roaches to get underneath the entire tank army
Lategame: When detection has become far too great, resort to A: heavy, heavy amount of micro with lings/hydras or B: broodlords
Bad advice. Midgame: Any half decent T will either get 1 raven or scan when he pushes.
Late: ling hydra vs mech? That has to be the worst advice I have ever read on these forums, helions demolish lings and do ok vs hydra, seiege tank demolsihes both , even with full surround this isnt even close to feasible.
BL's, decent answer until he gets enough vikings + thors up, corrupter does ok vs viking but not with thor backup
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It depends on what else the Terran has. Drops (of almost anything, though I like Banelings the best) or Mutas into the tank line if they're short on AA in general (ie lots of Marauders or Hellions or something other than Marines). BLs if they're short on Vikings (Marines don't matter a bit as the Broodlings will keep them back). Ultras if their tank numbers aren't obscene. Burrow some Infestors and toss Infested Terrans into the line and let his own splash make some holes (usually the Ravens, if any, are directly above the tanks or a little behind and you'll be able to get close enough for ITs). Burrowed Roaches if they lack detection altogether. Nydus/Drop wherever his tanks aren't will make him want to cry (I know this from experience).
I'm probably missing a few tactics, but the general theme is, do NOT engage them directly with ground unless you have more Ultras than he does Tanks.
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ultras rape tanks so bad. not there yet? try burrowed roaches or mutalisks
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All of this advice sounds completely and utterly ridiculous.
I'm not bashing you guys in any way. I'm bashing the fact that I have to put such a ridiculous amount of effort into countering a unit that terran can just spam out.
It sounds to me that throughout an entire game, zerg's main responsability is to leap across massive transistions in order to counter the terran's bullcrap unit composition. While terran just has to reach critical mass with his one predefined unit composition and just gain positioning, and rain fire on zerg units.
This makes zerg sound like a joke to me.
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Well, zerg is a race that depends on responding to whatever the enemy puts out first. If you're frustrated that you can't just 1a a mass of zerg units into the terran "hard counter" style, then you're better off playing a different race. Sorry, but that's just how the ball rolls.
EDIT: BTW, doom drops of hydra massacre terran if you can survive until you have a good number of hydras. It is impossible for tanks to unsiege, get to the hydras in your base, and siege up faster than you can just pack your hydras into your overlords and hit somewhere else undefended.
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Mutalisks are far more effective late game than pure ground in my opinion... heres what I do:
1. Get 8-10 mutas and about 20 roach/ 30 ling
2. Send the mutas to his SCV line, start the harass, The terran will do one of two things:
a. retreat his army to defend his base
----- If he does this, sneak your mutas around his base and snipe what you can of the tanks while they are moving back
b. make a push and forget about the harass
-----continue the harass until you feel happy, then follow his army and snipe the tanks
3. If you notice that his army is composed of tanks, thors, and marines, make sure to get plenty of roaches and hydras (not as many lings, they get one shotted by tanks and thors)
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On August 08 2010 04:40 Vreck wrote:
All of this advice sounds completely and utterly ridiculous.
I'm not bashing you guys in any way. I'm bashing the fact that I have to put such a ridiculous amount of effort into countering a unit that terran can just spam out.
It sounds to me that throughout an entire game, zerg's main responsability is to leap across massive transistions in order to counter the terran's bullcrap unit composition. While terran just has to reach critical mass with his one predefined unit composition and just gain positioning, and rain fire on zerg units.
This makes zerg sound like a joke to me.
you hit it on the head.
Terran (even a little Protoss) have such easy tactics to do, yet they are so effective, and takes a lot more talent to defend or fend off (such as a seige tank drop on the cliff of your expo in LT)
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I'm getting extremely frustrated, because i've been playing against the terran very hard A.I. all day, and it keeps ripping me to piece every game. It's the same problem over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I just threw a glass of soda across the room when terran came up with a little ball of crap and lol'd at me all the way to the scoreboard screen. Regardless of mass hydras and lings.
I even played 2 games where I kept my units on creep for extra speed, and one where I tried flanking them when they were in the chokepoint.
The one thing that mindfucks me to the point where I think real life is a dream, is that the A.I. doesn't even siege his tanks, and still manages to paint his house with my units.
I went muta/ling, and he showed up with a ball of bio.
I went hydra/ling, and this actually worked... Until he thought it would be fun to throw unsieged tanks at me.
I went roach/ling, and this was pathetic beyond belief.
I can't seem to macro up as fast as him at all. He just sets rally point at my ramp, and it's all over for me. Even if I continuously spam units, spawn larvae flawlessly, have an expo at my natural, he still manages to steamroll me.
The most amazing thing is: I've played terran against all the very hard A.I. races, and won. But this is impossible for me... Impossible...
EDIT: Incase you're thinking why I wanna beat the A.I. it's primarily because I wanna go through the A.I. difficulties, without cheese strategies, before I go online to play ladder. I'm extremely nervous when I play online, so having abit of golden experience would work wonders for me.
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On August 08 2010 05:10 Vreck wrote:
I'm getting extremely frustrated, because i've been playing against the terran very hard A.I. all day, and it keeps ripping me to piece every game. It's the same problem over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I just threw a glass of soda across the room when terran came up with a little ball of crap and lol'd at me all the way to the scoreboard screen. Regardless of mass hydras and lings.
I even played 2 games where I kept my units on creep for extra speed, and one where I tried flanking them when they were in the chokepoint.
The one thing that mindfucks me to the point where I think real life is a dream, is that the A.I. doesn't even siege his tanks, and still manages to paint his house with my units.
I went muta/ling, and he showed up with a ball of bio.
I went hydra/ling, and this actually worked... Until he thought it would be fun to throw unsieged tanks at me.
I went roach/ling, and this was pathetic beyond belief.
I can't seem to macro up as fast as him at all. He just sets rally point at my ramp, and it's all over for me. Even if I continuously spam units, spawn larvae flawlessly, have an expo at my natural, he still manages to steamroll me.
The most amazing thing is: I've played terran against all the very hard A.I. races, and won. But this is impossible for me... Impossible...
EDIT: Incase you're thinking why I wanna beat the A.I. it's primarily because I wanna go through the A.I. difficulties, without cheese strategies, before I go online to play ladder. I'm extremely nervous when I play online, so having abit of golden experience would work wonders for me.
don't be nervous man, its just a game.
playing online will help you more than playing AI since you really have NO idea what kind of silly strategies all these randies are doing on b.net right now, its hilarious lol. scout scout scout scout, you should get to platinum no problem.
and TvZ is an unfair match up, you will be sweating blood by the end of the game if you manage to win, it requires the utmost macro and multitasking to circumvent the terran army with drops and nip away at him while holding a base advantage, spread creep, drop with OL's, try and sneak a nydus in if possible, etc.scouting is extremely important in this matchup as well.
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Tank mobility is a real concern in team games. Attack where the tanks aren't and scout and try to hit the tanks when they are moving. If your opponents turtle expand and macro and try to deny them expansions.
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EPT
