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Are there any matchups in which you'd prefer spore crawlers over queens or vice versa?
I'm still a hasu silver rank. 
Spore Crawler:
COST: 75+50m
HEALTH: 400
ARMOR: 1
AIR DAMAGE: 15
RANGE: 7
BUILD TIME: 50
COOLDOWN: 0.8608
Detector
Limited Mobility
Consumes 0 supply
Must give up a drone
Requires Pool + Evolution Chamber
Queen:
COST: 150m
HEALTH: 175
ARMOR: 1
AIR DAMAGE: 9
RANGE: 7
BUILD TIME: 50
COOLDOWN: 1.0000
Offers Transfusion + Creep Tumor + Spawn Larvae too
Higher mobility
Consumes 2 supply
Do not give up a drone
Requires Pool
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I just can't decide. Queens come out earlier and can help defend better against void ray and banshee rushes. It's generally not worth it to get spore crawlers for detection, imo, because Overseers are more mobile and also offer detection. All zerg builds involve overseers, but not all of them involve spore crawlers.
Spore crawler's DPS is higher (17 vs. 9), HP/Min ratio is better, and it's the only pure mineral way to get detection in the game, but that's all I can see in favor of getting them. They cost too many drones to get any solid amount early on since you have to give up a drone for the evolution chamber and every additional crawler.
When do you guys use spore crawlers? What use do they really have?
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really spore is 11 range?
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My bad. I accidentally read the sight value from Liquipedia. I'll fix that up.
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I personally am a huge fan of Queens. If you are concerned with air units it is ALWAYS an awesome move to make 3 or 4 queens because they not only give anti air, but they can be used for transfuse and creep spreading.
Spore colonies have their own use, which is for more solid defense against tenacious air harassment through the late game. Plopping down 2-3 spore colonies around your base in mid-late game can be a huge deterrence to air units coming in, and at that point in the game its not gonna be a huge cost.
So... extra queens early game, spore colonies later on is my personal answer.
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im a big fan of queens too. it is not a bad idea to have 4 or even 5 queens on two bases.
you can spam creep SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fast with just one extra queen. if you are expecting an air attack, make two more queen from each hatch >> rape their air, macro, and creep expand ftw.
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the only real advantage spore colonies have over multiple queens is that they take no supply.
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On July 27 2010 17:02 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
the only real advantage spore colonies have over multiple queens is that they take no supply.
and detect
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Spore crawler with your overlords at entrance is good vs phoenix opening protosses, they can lift and battle queens but not spore crawler + in case they get dark templars you will be safer.
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Requires Pool + Evolution Chamber
Only requires evolution chamber that is very cheap. But you always do pool before obviously.
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Spore crawlers are useful against phoenix harassment (they cannot be lifted, unlike queens), are useful against banshees (due to the detection) and are more cost-effective at fending off mutalisks. Usually, a combination of queens+spores will be your best option until either hydras or mutas come into play. Use queens for mobility, but keep them relatively close to the crawlers. That way, they're protected from return fire/graviton beams.
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I usually use spore crawlers against air if I'm on one base, because you can't let extra queen production slow the lair.
Spore crawlers will also do more damage, which is important if your enemy is really intent on a viking/pheonix overlord harass and you have to collect them.
Finally if you don't have detection and you scout that starport with tech lab, you will need a spore crawler (and this is a case in which the lair tech is mandatory)
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Well, later in the game spore crawlers dont require supply and gives detection, that counts for them. One spore and one spine shuts down any DT shenanigans against your mineral line.
Unless you are doing some kind of cool queen build you probably shouldnt get more then four. Queens are great in the start though, because they dont use larva.
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excluding the detection factor, i gotta go with the fact that spore production is usually alot faster than queen production.
sure both takes 50s to build but you can build several spores at the same time where as you can only get 1 queen at a time.
enemy air always outnumber your queen count and if they micro good, ur queen is screwed and so are your drones.
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If the oponent commits to a heavy air force like mass banshee, mass pheonix/void ray or mass muta you might wanna get some spore crawlers to back up your queens, but I think queens to the job when dealing with low number air units.
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On July 27 2010 17:02 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
the only real advantage spore colonies have over multiple queens is that they take no supply.
I've seen spores used mainly against Terran and their banshees. In most other cases, that I've seen, people stick to queens unless they need the detection.
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Spore Colonies seem like the lazy mans way out. You are going to get some Queens no matter what. If you are active with unit control and get overseer's Spore Colonies aren't needed. I assume once you get Lair tech you're either getting Mutas or Hydra's to support your mobile army. Why would you get Mutas or Hydras and Queens and Spore Colonies. That's just to much resources spent on anti air.
I'm not saying never get them, but I don't think you should go into every game with the intent to use Spore Colonies as your anti air defense.
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I use spores if my opponent is going mass phoenix and harassing my mineral lines. One spore at each base completely nullifies this.
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Spores also rock vs mutas, as those do have some really limited range.
Here on EU, last day of the beta, ZvZ was basically one base ling->muta play all day long. Putting a a couple of spires whilst macroing up and massing roach/hydra was a really good solution for that (depending on map ofc)
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On July 27 2010 22:51 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 17:02 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
the only real advantage spore colonies have over multiple queens is that they take no supply. I've seen spores used mainly against Terran and their banshees. In most other cases, that I've seen, people stick to queens unless they need the detection.
Spores are absolutely awful vs banshees, the shees range is 6 and the spore is 7, which mean you literally have to build 84789 spore crawlers to cover your base, the banshees can snipe a spawning pool placed touching a spore crawler without taking a hit. They can always find a spot to rape your drones and structures while staying out of range.
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sure both takes 50s to build but you can build several spores at the same time where as you can only get 1 queen at a time.
Spore colonies build in only 30s not 50s. Don't go overboard with them, but spore colonies are extremely cost effective in the right situation. Think of them as 400hp/1 armor +3 attack upgraded hydralisks (15 dmg, same cooldown as hydra, but +2 range over unupgraded hydra) that can't move, but are also immune to a lot of special effects such as graviton beam, fungal growth, etc.
The triangle defense with 3 spores arranged in a triangle around your hatchery, plus a Queen or two, make for a very solid defense against Void Ray until hydra are available in large numbers.
I have never built spores at the edge of my base, but I think that has potential given that their sight range is 11 (the same as an overlord). Placing an overlord there instead, does make it vulnerable if your opponent is going air.
Small islands are defended well with spores. While spines and spores will hurt the zerg economy, they can be useful later on in the game when you have a lot of minerals and have reached 200 supply. Spines are strong early and become obsolete at a faster rate than spores, because as I mentioned spores do the same damage as hydra with +3 attack upgrades so they maintain their useful all game long.
One strategy I have considered on such maps as Kulas to mitigate the power of BCs and Void Rays abusing cliffs is to combine heavy spore use with infestors/neural parasite. Basically you would build the spores a ways away from the cliff in a cluster (perhaps 4 or 6 of them). When the BCs come over the cliff you would snag a couple (not too many or your spores will not be able to handle them) with Neural Parasite, then immediately pull the BCs over the spores, while focus firing the spores on to the BCs. I have tested this in the unit tester versus small numbers of BCs and am able to take out 3 BCs with just 3 infestors and 6 spore colonies. Usually spores are weak versus BCs because the BCs are able to take them down one at a time by picking the right angle of attack, but when you forcibly fly the BCs over 6 spore colonies the spores win easily. Even if NP wears off, if you manage to pull the BCs far enough into the danger zone, they will be too slow to escape before being focus fired down. Furthermore you can queue up your infestors to burrow while a NP is in effect, causing them to immediately burrow when the NP wears off, thus saving them from the BCs wrath!
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aha. depends on who you are playeing. im not talking about racewise, im talking avbout personal strategy that people use. obviously on ladder, you arento going to know your opponents. the key is to SCOUT. if you see a protoss building out of two stargates, your goiing to be seriously disapointed in your five queens when they bust your mineral line with fifteen void rays. ive done it before. also, with fazing implemented by your opponent, there is no way that you will be ableto beat them. you will need SOME spore crawlers to hold it off. also since DT drops are so effing good, you will want detection.
however. it also takes timing. if its early game, you cant afford to build an evo and give up a drone and pay for the spore crawler and blah blah blah, and then build it again since your going to want at least two of them. it depends on how well/what you scout, if you see them buildin one single stargate, make sure theres not a proxy stargate somewhere before disregarding the threat. queens definitely are viable for stopping a few void rays, and you save yourself a lot of money. but witht the threat of DT drops, late game, your probably gonna want some spore crawlers or overseers eventually.
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Do spore colonies provide detection while they are uprooted?
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On July 28 2010 01:31 Tempora wrote:
aha. depends on who you are playeing. im not talking about racewise, im talking avbout personal strategy that people use. obviously on ladder, you arento going to know your opponents. the key is to SCOUT. if you see a protoss building out of two stargates, your goiing to be seriously disapointed in your five queens when they bust your mineral line with fifteen void rays.
Ha... really? You're right. By the time that they have 15 void rays I WILL still be entirely dependent on Queens for AA. I won't have any sort of Hydras/Mutas at ALL.
In my mind, spores are useful when you haven't teched to Lair yet and you scout a Spire/Stargate/Starport up. I usually get an early evo chamber, so i can throw down 2 spores and be relatively safe from those early air pushes. However... once you have lair, mobile hydras/mutas are just SO much better.
The question about spores being detectors when uprooted is one that I was wondering too... anybody know?
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You get queens because you already need them. 2 queens will defend against most air harasses in the early game. Add spore crawlers if they have cloaked banshees or if it's at a hard to defend expo. If it's a late game, you should already have hydras or mutas.
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Queens can heal/creep tumors.
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Spores are really only useful for vs things like pheonix or to protect your base from mutas in zvz. Against most air threats like banshees or void rays you need so many everywhere its cheaper to get queens, and even if you could cover everywhere he only needs to take out one to start killing drones again. Queens are so much more mobile and they have transfusion and they can really support a counterattack as well.
Dunno about detection cause I always get a fast overseer.
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Never open spores. Use them if your opponent is extremely persistent.
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spores only if you can't get enough queens out fast enough
spores, immobile, cost larva.
Queens don't and can be transferred to expos or used to creep the map up faster.
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Since I understood how powerful queens were, I haven't done spores except in very rare situations. Mostly in situations where I've powered drones without going lair for very long time, and I'm afraid of facing banshees or DTs I'll put 1-2 spores for detection. Also sometimes in zvz when opponent has rushed to mutas, I usually know about it so late that I'm forced to throw few spores because I can't get +2queens out fast enough. Mutas are also hard to catch due to their speed so some stationary def near gas extractors are usually worth their cost.
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If you make a late Lair, i suggest Spore Crawlers.
Otherwise 3 queens should be enough.
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Personally, I'd just prefer queens over spores any day. They're weaker, but they defend ground well too, and can transfuse to stay alive, maybe longer than spores even, and more importantly, creep tumours. I like lots of queens to get my creep maphack up fast. Spores don't give you maphack.
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I like having just 1 spore in the base for fast DT's. I usually don't have time to make it though vs overseer. But I still think it's worth getting just 1 at least for stealth detection when there's no overseer around. Also it doesn't take DT priority since it doesn't attack them and draw its fire.
Helps against Colossi too! Haha, I thought it was strange as hell when that happened to shoot, but it makes sense!
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EPT
