|
Oh Team Liquid,
I have run into another dilemma involving void ray rushes. I am a high plat/low diamond player (Zerg) and with my current build cannot seem to get out T2 anti-air quite fast enough.
I considered using the build order tester, but then I remembered "Oh yeah, I can't play toss, woops". So instead, I would like diamond toss players to use the build order tester to tell me how quickly they can get their first void ray out.
Here is was my build (on average): 9 overlord, 14 pool, 15 hatch, 15 queen, 17 overlord, 18 gas, 19 queen, and around 28-31 started up the lair I guess.
This of course (as I found out the hard way) lead me very open to void ray rushes, not so much banshees really. Anyway I modified it so that I double-gassed when I would normally single gas.
It did indeed stop void ray rushes, but that was way too early for a zerg player (unless I decide to do 2 hatch muta) I lost to more things like the 4-gate and MM early pushes.
So please, I want to see when my second gas should go up, so all you diamond level toss players please post:
-The time it takes for 1 void ray (in real seconds)
-The build order you used to get it
-And of course your level of play
PS: Please keep in mind this is not a competition, I don't want people to lie about it just to look cool on TL. Just be honest, I need the real times for this to work.
Thanks, Bio
|
Get 2-3 queens per base if you suspect VR, with transfusion they pwn VRs.
|
Im a mid-platinum player, nothing too special. but in order to help you, are you talking about a legit, commit to void ray rush with five or six or are you talking about them getting a single void ray to min harrass? also it depends on if you want to include my time doing a proxy or if you want a legit build? it varies a lot with me, if you tell what the specs are ill be glad to help you xD
|
Just build 2 queens, 3 if you want to stay tier 1 for a while. Void Rays just really are that strong early.
|
faze with 2 void rays > 3 queens? i thought that was the case that made them oped? And now since you can faze with charge...o_O makes it even rougher on the zergs right?
|
I do in fact mean a single void ray, but I would also greatly appreciate how soon you can get larger numbers. I mean, I may be in an instance where they do in fact commit to several void rays, so I would like to be prepared for that to.
And I'm not talking queens guys, that was not my question or request at all.
Thanks
|
if you suspect VR just add 3rd queen and get creep between main and nat. When void ray comes your queens can heal each other to fight off the VR. Later on your 3rd queen can be used to shit out creep tumors and support your hatch when you get your 3rd up.
|
You are talking queens though. Zerg should rely on queens to fend off fast void ray everytime, unless you are fast teching to mute or hydra but whoooo ever does that
|
On July 23 2010 09:33 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
if you suspect VR just add 3rd queen and get creep between main and nat. When void ray comes your queens can heal each other to fight off the VR. Later on your 3rd queen can be used to shit out creep tumors and support your hatch when you get your 3rd up.
....................... please thread before you post on it.
|
dude theres a reason you cant get T2 anti air out fast enough - YOU ARE NOT SPOSED TO BE ABLE TO
|
On July 23 2010 09:37 ZataN wrote:
dude theres a reason you cant get T2 anti air out fast enough - YOU ARE NOT SPOSED TO BE ABLE TO
I don't want to be quivering in my seat waiting for the next queen. And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build.
Now I know a queen doesn't sound like much, but I personally get a ton of upgrades from my hatches. (I like burrow really early with any build.) So at the end of the day my build will have been changed quite a bit.
Can I pleeeeease just get a time? Thanks
Bio
|
Take gas later(20-21), get speed before lair, get a third queen whenever playing blind.
Your question of the timing of the void ray attack is kind of irrelevant, because it will always come before you have hydras anyway. Void ray is one of the easiest builds to play against because if you go speed before lair and start cranking lings at around 36, you can very often end the game or get a huge advantage with ling aggression. If it turns out you were wrong and he was actually 4-gating or doing some sort of robo push, you've got a ton of extra lings to defend. You will pretty much always have hydras up when/if he invests in multiple void rays.
|
Using the QXC build tester, and chrono boosting the stargate, I managed to get a void ray out in 5 minutes and 53 seconds, which is 353 seconds.
Of course this is probably not the fastest possible way to get one out, but it serves as a good reference in the sense that we know it can't be slower than this...at least
|
I just tried it in a build order tester. With constant probe production, and no zealots or other units produced, the first void ray came out at 5:36. With 2 zealots produced, it was at 5:52. Keep in mind, I never rush void rays so I'm not extremely well practiced, but it flowed pretty well. Was a high diamond player in beta.
Was a typical 9 pylon/12 gate build, delay warp gates for the stargate, saving 2 chronoboosts for the void ray.
|
On July 23 2010 09:25 zhul4nder wrote:
faze with 2 void rays > 3 queens? i thought that was the case that made them oped? And now since you can faze with charge...o_O makes it even rougher on the zergs right?
Browder recently said they were aware of fazing (he even called it that) and that it will be fixed.
|
Just make 3-4 queens. I think its silly not to tbh. You can just mass creep tumors like no tomorrow and take over the map 3 times as fast plus they have the transfusion spell and their a decent anti air unit.
|
On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:37 ZataN wrote:
dude theres a reason you cant get T2 anti air out fast enough - YOU ARE NOT SPOSED TO BE ABLE TO I don't want to be quivering in my seat waiting for the next queen. And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build. Now I know a queen doesn't sound like much, but I personally get a ton of upgrades from my hatches. (I like burrow really early with any build.) So at the end of the day my build will have been changed quite a bit. Can I pleeeeease just get a time? Thanks Bio
Wow if you don't want to be forced into making units just because of your opponent, you must have a hell of a time in ZvT. I'm sure D9 doesn't mean not to get early antiair when you see an early air attack coming. He means don't freak out and tech directly to spire just because you see one marauder because someone told you "mutas counter marauders". You MUST account for what your opponent is doing in your build and make sure you're flexible to do so.
For instance, you say you like early burrow--why do you like to do this? Are you making heavy roaches/infestors? The third queen typically comes out of your second hatch and before burrow is an option. Are you getting rushed by VRs when you're still one basing? because you shouldn't be. If you're rushing to hydras so early to just account for one VR, your build is likely going to be weak and will fail to a lot of very standard openers.
That being said, dealing with VRs is relatively easy as zerg, if you make a third (and then maybe a fourth) queen early when you suspect it, it's very easy to repel while teching to hydras (and roaches, don't discount the possibility of a heavy speedlot army transition early from the VRs, it will mess up low numbers of hydras). What you should do is plan to adapt your build in certain situations. For me, I incorporate the extra queens in standard play vP on maps like scrap station and close position (air) LT/metal. If you can get an OL into his base early you can find if there's something missing, probably VR tech, or what else is coming at you.
Also, the third and fourth queen are not useless. You plan on transitioning to a third and fourth base at some time, right? You already have a queen. You have extra queens and extra defense if a strong push kills off a queen or if you need transfusion or extra creep. It's a good idea.
|
My fastest time was 5:15 (game time).. had a 3rd void ray at 6:40.. did a few mistakes could probably get 3rd out at 6:30.. but I would never go for 3 void rays since.. that would be pretty dangerous I think.. the first void ray comes out pretty easily but getting the 2nd and 3rd one are pretty much all my minerals I have at the time which I dont like since I would rather be using the money for like some zealots/stalkers/sentries/tech..
And yeah.. getting queens if you expect void rays isnt bad.. which is why I never go voidrays vs zerg.. If it fails thats ALOT of money wasted and queens are useful for the zerg.. I like safer builds like.. 10 gate fast expand..
|
Using the QXC BO tester I got one out in just under 4 minutes. I'm not sure if this is game time or real-time but that's what the number is in the corner.
My BO was pretty simple just:
-Pylon
-Gateway
-Assimilator
-Cyber core
-Stargate
as soon as I could, pumping probes the whole time. Hopefully someone can corroborate or tell me if my time is not right.
EDIT: Looking at some other people's numbers, I suspect that the time is real time and game time would be closer to 6:00. I'll try it on YABOT.
EDIT 2: Yep, QXC is a dirty, dirty man. 5:30 is more like it. Props to those who did it faster, I'll have to iron that out a bit.
|
On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
Can I pleeeeease just get a time? Thanks
As Day nine would say, just pick a time arbitrarily and go with it. See how it plays out after a lot of games (not 1 or 2) and then make a decision to try it a little earlier or later.
If however it does not play out, then I think you need to consider that what you are trying to do might not be possible.
On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:37 ZataN wrote:
dude theres a reason you cant get T2 anti air out fast enough - YOU ARE NOT SPOSED TO BE ABLE TO I don't want to be quivering in my seat waiting for the next queen. And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build.
Forcing and responding are key parts of Starcraft. Just because you don't want to respond does not mean that is the right choice. If the Protoss goes DT you can't just say "I shouldn't have to get detection, I should be able to happily continue with my build". The same goes for air or a large variety of other threats that your opponent uses.
I feel the problem is that you are misinterpreting Day9, or not listening to the rest of his points. In many videos he talks about the relationship between your build and other peoples. If for example in ZvT you open banelings. Day9 says you know that you will beat 'this chunk' of openings. (eg mass marines, fast expands etc). So you only need to worry about a handful of other possible openings, and 'make sure you have a plan' for them. Fast voidray is one such example of this. You already know the chunk of openings your build works well against. This is not one of them, so have a plan to transition (or weave in) whenever your opponent goes Void Ray opening.
|
hahahaha, OP quoting Day9~
amazing
yea, keep playing like that, never adapt to other player, you will get very far!!!
GOGOGO CANADA FIGHT
ps~ just make a 3rd queen
|
In game time around 5:15 is the fastest I could get. It requires a fairly fast double gas though so you don't have to wait for the gast for the stargate, 5:30 gametime is the most reasonable time for a fast voidray without really changing the build from a standard build.
|
Do it yourself, if all your trying to do is a get a void out fast as possible you dont need to be able to play toss.
|
im glad to answer your original question, since nobody else seems to understand why you asked it.
with a SOLID, REASONABLE build, i get my first void ray around 5:45 or 5:50. thats an average of time, for having to account for cheese and junk and possibly needing to create a stalker somewhere in there to stop reapers and stuff. however, vs zerg, i got it out a little sooner. i also do a build where i focus mainly on VRs but i dont attack till i have about six, producing from 2 starports. its basically a turtle to Voidray build, and i demolish your min line a little bit after 7 min.
so if your worried about a single void ray, i would be ready for it about 5:30 if someone is just wanting to get it out as soon as possible.
for mass, i would be ready about 7:00 mins.
hope this is helpful.
|
On July 23 2010 11:32 Tempora wrote:
im glad to answer your original question, since nobody else seems to understand why you asked it.
with a SOLID, REASONABLE build, i get my first void ray around 5:45 or 5:50. thats an average of time, for having to account for cheese and junk and possibly needing to create a stalker somewhere in there to stop reapers and stuff. however, vs zerg, i got it out a little sooner. i also do a build where i focus mainly on VRs but i dont attack till i have about six, producing from 2 starports. its basically a turtle to Voidray build, and i demolish your min line a little bit after 7 min.
so if your worried about a single void ray, i would be ready for it about 5:30 if someone is just wanting to get it out as soon as possible.
for mass, i would be ready about 7:00 mins.
hope this is helpful.
Thank you good sir and for the rest of you who have contributed times. It is much appreciated.
|
You don't really have to worry about the absolute fastest VR rush because that will entail zero other units being made except probes - and thats, worst case, a base trade on any map but DO.
I think around 6 minutes is the earliest you should worry about.
|
TLO v Tester G3 was an example of the "fastest VR rush possible / practical"
Scary stuff for Terrans
|
On July 23 2010 09:57 EnigmaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:25 zhul4nder wrote:
faze with 2 void rays > 3 queens? i thought that was the case that made them oped? And now since you can faze with charge...o_O makes it even rougher on the zergs right? Browder recently said they were aware of fazing (he even called it that) and that it will be fixed.
but he also said there wont be any updates until fews months after release unless it's an emergency.
|
You need defense up by ~5:30 game time, as others have said. If you see one that early you've basically won though. If you scout it, or simply smell it coming, then go with two queens. If they start with the bug ('clever spam clicking'), then move the queen that is not spawning larvae out of range. Use it as a healer and the other queen will kill the VR. While you're doing that just push their base. If they're hitting you hate early with VRs they won't be able to afford much of anything else. If they come a little later they usually come in pairs and by then you can have Hydras out in time. Look up some 2 Hatch Hydra play for larger maps where the VRs will either be a proxy, or coming quite a bit later.
|
Fastest VR? I mean, define that. Completely skipping all units/tech other than 1 gate, a cybercore and a stargate? And how good of an economy are we assuming?
|
What no one seems to talking about here is the importance of SCOUTING. If a P really is super-super-super rushing VRs, he won't be able to hide it from a late-ish scout (one gateway, probably just one zealot, which you can outrun = VR).
If you have no idea what your opponent is doing, then you're just rolling the dice. Your strat might counter his or his might counter yours, but there's no way of knowing.
|
On July 23 2010 13:18 Trump wrote:
TLO v Tester G3 was an example of the "fastest VR rush possible / practical"
Scary stuff for Terrans
it only worked so well because TLO was going reaper + hellion harass which leaves a terran player open to air. if TLO had marines along with the vikings he would have been fine
|
I managed one Void Ray at 5:00 flat in game time. Of course it cut probes significantly.
I would say the fastest rush would typically come at 5:15 while a more practical estimate would be 5:40ish.
The way I got one at 5:00 would be an all in cheese and I think it slows down the production of other Void Rays.
|
On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build.
Well, how about you stop listening to day9?? Jeezuz, everyone in this thread is quoting day9 as if he is the god of starcraft 2 strategy and tactics.. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO COUNTER HIS DAMN UNITS??? Thats what zerg is all about, reaction to his actions. Yeah sure, if you dont stay on your toes, the enemy can abuse that. But so can you, bluffs in sc2 can be effective. Stick to your strategy (As day9 obviously teaches you) and see how far that gets you.
Also, sorry to say this, but why the hell dont you drop 1 spore at each base??? You will be wanting that evo chamber in the long run anyhow.. Getting 20000 queens is hardly mineral efficient and ends up delaying your evolution.. But then again, thats what day9 said to do. Hm, he also said to abuse that amazing mobility of Zerg. OH SNAP, NO SUCH THING
Start thinking on your own please? If you played all the time you spent watching his damn commentaries, you mightve developed some strategies yourself.
PS. Wheres your scouting anyhow? Getting 5 queens cause afraid of air, but getting rolled by a 4gate push? lolo?
PS2 - are people in diamond seriously using void rays on NA server? On EU I havent seen those past gold oO
|
5:30-5:40 is a reasonable time using a semi-standard build that isnt an all-in VR rush.
Oddly enough, you can manage to get 3 sentry, 4 stalker, 1 zealot, and 2 VR by about 7:10 or so (and have 4 warpgates ready to pump nonstop, though limited stargate production....). Could be interesting to see that kind of big warpgate push in a game. Almost seems like it could be one of those unstoppable pushes actually.
I may have to refine the build a bit, but it seems powerful considering how strong 4 warpgate is by itself.
I was a diamond protoss during the beta, though I pretty much never did VR builds.
|
On July 23 2010 18:59 Neuuubeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build. Well, how about you stop listening to day9?? Jeezuz, everyone in this thread is quoting day9 as if he is the god of starcraft 2 strategy and tactics.. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO COUNTER HIS DAMN UNITS??? Thats what zerg is all about, reaction to his actions. Yeah sure, if you dont stay on your toes, the enemy can abuse that. But so can you, bluffs in sc2 can be effective. Stick to your strategy (As day9 obviously teaches you) and see how far that gets you. Also, sorry to say this, but why the hell dont you drop 1 spore at each base??? You will be wanting that evo chamber in the long run anyhow.. Getting 20000 queens is hardly mineral efficient and ends up delaying your evolution.. But then again, thats what day9 said to do. Hm, he also said to abuse that amazing mobility of Zerg. OH SNAP, NO SUCH THING Start thinking on your own please? If you played all the time you spent watching his damn commentaries, you mightve developed some strategies yourself. PS. Wheres your scouting anyhow? Getting 5 queens cause afraid of air, but getting rolled by a 4gate push? lolo? PS2 - are people in diamond seriously using void rays on NA server? On EU I havent seen those past gold oO
Nothing wrong with listening to Day9. Problem is interpreting him the wrong way. All he said there is that your build should be flexible enough to be able to deal with things such as a fast Void Ray.
When it comes to VR usage I use them a lot in my PvT matchup a lot since it delays the marine ghost push just enough to get a nice mix of chargelots, sentries and some VRs. I dont use them at all vs Zerg and as Zerg I don't fear them as much post range nerf. Queens build fast enough to deal with them until you get Hydras out.
|
It depends on how the protoss player is doing the voidray rush:
If I get my gateway at 12, immediately build the cybercore, stargate and chrono boost the voidray twice, I get him out at 5:20 (Game Time), with a proxy stargate he should in your base pretty fast.
If players go for this kind of an all-in rush they usually skip the stalker, warp gate research and block their entrance. In short, the base is incredible vulnerable to an early push.
If you have a scout in your opponents base, he has to chrono boost a stalker first so you don't suspect that a voidray rush is coming, which is going to delay everything a little bit. Otherwise he's going to get a zealot to complete the wall-off, which shouldn't cut the timing at all.
Queens are the safest option (I wouldn't recommend spore crawlers), just be careful he doesn't manage to charge up his voidrays. In case he waits for 2 voidrays you should have enough time to get a bunch of queens and have hydralisks on the way. What I would recommend is to get a friend, who plays protoss and tell him to go straight for voidrays, while you are playing your ordinary build order. This is the best way to find out the timing and see, where you can squeeze in a counter.
|
On July 23 2010 14:34 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 13:18 Trump wrote:
TLO v Tester G3 was an example of the "fastest VR rush possible / practical"
Scary stuff for Terrans it only worked so well because TLO was going reaper + hellion harass which leaves a terran player open to air. if TLO had marines along with the vikings he would have been fine
Yep, TLO had used a build that would be extremely vulnerable to early void ray the last game and Tester scouted he was doing it again, on top of that TLO left Testers base a little too early probably so didn't scout it. All he needed was 3 marines and the first VR does nothing pretty much.
|
get 3 queens as a standard against any 1 basing protoss, use the 3rd queen to make a creep highway between your main and natural and run back and forth to defend any void ray harass, this buys time for your tech to get out, trying to rush lair tech out before void rays is impossible without just 1 basing or majorly cutting drones
|
On July 23 2010 18:59 Neuuubeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build. Also, sorry to say this, but why the hell dont you drop 1 spore at each base??? You will be wanting that evo chamber in the long run anyhow.. Getting 20000 queens is hardly mineral efficient and ends up delaying your evolution..
Spore crawlers have range 7, void rays range 6. It's monumentally simple for the void rays to attack whatever they want while avoiding your spore crawlers.
|
On July 23 2010 18:59 Neuuubeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build. Well, how about you stop listening to day9?? Jeezuz, everyone in this thread is quoting day9 as if he is the god of starcraft 2 strategy and tactics.. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO COUNTER HIS DAMN UNITS??? Thats what zerg is all about, reaction to his actions. Yeah sure, if you dont stay on your toes, the enemy can abuse that. But so can you, bluffs in sc2 can be effective. Stick to your strategy (As day9 obviously teaches you) and see how far that gets you. Also, sorry to say this, but why the hell dont you drop 1 spore at each base??? You will be wanting that evo chamber in the long run anyhow.. Getting 20000 queens is hardly mineral efficient and ends up delaying your evolution.. But then again, thats what day9 said to do. Hm, he also said to abuse that amazing mobility of Zerg. OH SNAP, NO SUCH THING Start thinking on your own please? If you played all the time you spent watching his damn commentaries, you mightve developed some strategies yourself. PS. Wheres your scouting anyhow? Getting 5 queens cause afraid of air, but getting rolled by a 4gate push? lolo? PS2 - are people in diamond seriously using void rays on NA server? On EU I havent seen those past gold oO
I actually love to watch day9 and listen to his analysis, though you have to take it with a grain of salt and whatever you might believe there are still exception so don't take it as if it's carved in stone.
And yeah there are some toss who does for void ray rush in NA, though i got to say its pretty stupid though, since they are easily defend able.
|
Full respect to Day 9, he's epic and I watch most of this work.
At the same time it's funny to see people quote the scripture of day 9 akin to some god. Day9 says this, no no you didn't listen to everything day9 said only took some out of context, day9 really ment this...
 Day9 you should be proud.
|
NVM, how can I delete my post in here...
|
1 spore is not enough to deal with void rays...
Not to mention that spores are kinda expensive... 75 for evo chamber (which yes, you'll get eventually anyways) and then 125 per spore (drone+75). A queen is only 25 more than that, can transfuse, and is mobile all of the time. Only downside is that a Queen takes 2 supply. Queens are pretty damn mineral efficient, especially when you take into account transfusion and creep tumor.
Honestly though, you just need to scout. If you don't want to "have to" make another queen, scout him around the 4 min 30 seconds mark and see if it looks like he's going void rays. If he's walled off, or if you suspect that he proxied it somewhere else, you'll just have to make the judgement to make an extra queen yourself. Really though, they're worth every penny.
|
On July 23 2010 18:59 Neuuubeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build. Well, how about you stop listening to day9?? Jeezuz, everyone in this thread is quoting day9 as if he is the god of starcraft 2 strategy and tactics.. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO COUNTER HIS DAMN UNITS??? Thats what zerg is all about, reaction to his actions. Yeah sure, if you dont stay on your toes, the enemy can abuse that. But so can you, bluffs in sc2 can be effective. Stick to your strategy (As day9 obviously teaches you) and see how far that gets you. Also, sorry to say this, but why the hell dont you drop 1 spore at each base??? You will be wanting that evo chamber in the long run anyhow.. Getting 20000 queens is hardly mineral efficient and ends up delaying your evolution.. But then again, thats what day9 said to do. Hm, he also said to abuse that amazing mobility of Zerg. OH SNAP, NO SUCH THING Start thinking on your own please? If you played all the time you spent watching his damn commentaries, you mightve developed some strategies yourself. PS. Wheres your scouting anyhow? Getting 5 queens cause afraid of air, but getting rolled by a 4gate push? lolo? PS2 - are people in diamond seriously using void rays on NA server? On EU I havent seen those past gold oO
relax dude. your talking to the wrong person.
and void rays are still viable. theyre powerful if you dont let em die.
and the point of this thread was just to find out a good tosses void ray timng, he never said WHAT his counter would be, its everybody else thats talking about queens sir.
|
Im quite relaxed, I find it really weird when people blindly follow advice from some commentator without trying things on their own  Guess he didnt word his thought out properly either, but oh well, this is tha internetz, arguing/discussing is naturally impaired
Still feel more than 1 queen early on tends to be a waste, but thats for everybody to decide on their own . I'll go back to lurking, looking ashamed
|
Expand and then tech directly to hydralisk. Get 3 queens, or more if you find out your opponent is rushing air. I though that was standard ZvP.
Day9 always says not to abandon your build, but that doesn't mean never adjusting to the opponent's play. Build =/= Build Order.
|
I could get a void out just before the 5 minute mark. I'm a high gold level player/low plat.
|
On July 24 2010 06:16 Arnu wrote:
I could get a void out just before the 5 minute mark. I'm a high gold level player/low plat.
by doing so, you forgo your standard build and would otherwise be killed. were talking about feasible builds that would actually pose a threat. doing a sub five minute VR means that you left out a crucial component of survival such as not getting ground units to defend or teching straight to VRs.
|
Saying "I don't want Queens because I want T2 to take care of VR rushes" is a lot like a P player saying "I don't want Zealots against speedlings because I want to tech into Colossi to deal with mass speedling rush". You can't have what you want and you need to adapt your build.
|
On July 24 2010 03:51 Neuuubeh wrote:Im quite relaxed, I find it really weird when people blindly follow advice from some commentator without trying things on their own Guess he didnt word his thought out properly either, but oh well, this is tha internetz, arguing/discussing is naturally impaired Still feel more than 1 queen early on tends to be a waste, but thats for everybody to decide on their own . I'll go back to lurking, looking ashamed
Hilarious how you think you can somehow magically counter VRs without Queens and without any T2 units. What are you gonna do, make spore crawlers over your entire base(s)?
|
If you never change your plan in the heat of the moment, you're not learning anything.
|
|
|
I tried it 3 times and the fastest I could get it in the opponents base with still producing probes was around 5:40 game time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
