EPT[D] Simple T build got me to #1 in Diamond - Page 11
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LF9
United States537 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
Try reading some of the other more "legitimate" build suggestions. | ||
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teemh
Canada120 Posts
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aznhockeyboy16
United States558 Posts
also, if I scout a terran and he doesn't have his gas I'm building 2 bunkers on my ramp, and scouting for cheese. | ||
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Sabresandiego
United States227 Posts
On July 22 2010 08:18 aznhockeyboy16 wrote: lots of people in diamond suck... and if you cheese your way to victory 50% of the time, you will get a lot of points fast, since you get more points for winning than you lose for losing. also, if I scout a terran and he doesn't have his gas I'm building 2 bunkers on my ramp, and scouting for cheese. That isnt smart, because no gas could also mean a fast expand. That means you wasted half an expansions cost in minerals for useless bunkers. Yes you can get the minerals back, but its all about the timing of those minerals. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On July 22 2010 06:58 Sabresandiego wrote: This is not an all in build. You do not cut scv's at all, and you can transition. Who says this build has to be all in? You can even transition into an early expo, 4 gas bio mech if you want. Having 5-6 rax is something you would have anyways by midgame, you just get it early in this build and use it for pressure. This build is not an all in unless you play it that way, and you can if you want to. try reading the damn OP before you start spewing garbage: On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote: Just wanted to share this all-in cause I haven't seen this build from anyone else yet, and I can't seem to lose! | ||
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Sabresandiego
United States227 Posts
On July 22 2010 11:05 BlasiuS wrote: try reading the damn OP before you start spewing garbage: Its not all in if you stop producing marines once the build isnt working, or alter the build to be more adaptable. This build does not sacrifice your scv production whatsoever. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On July 22 2010 11:28 Sabresandiego wrote: Its not all in if you stop producing marines once the build isnt working, or alter the build to be more adaptable. This build does not sacrifice your scv production whatsoever. It is absolutely an all-in. You don't have to cut SCVs too much, but if you don't do significant damage with the attack, you are left with 6 barracks that you can't support as soon as you decide to transition, no gas, and no tech. Against T, your opponent will have tanks by the time you get gas. Against P, your opponent will have DTs or ranged collosi before you can respond with a starport. Against Z, you're going to be out-based and up against larger numbers of muta-baneling than you can handle. If you do a lot of damage, you'll stay even or pull ahead. If you're easily forced to retreat, you're way behind. This is the definition of an all-in. | ||
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Captain
United States204 Posts
On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote: Kinda goofy but I play T and this build has been working against all 3 races. Pretty much just standard depot, rax, depot, rine to deny scouting, orbital command and save 750 min to build 5 rax similtanously where scouting is difficult. SCVs the whole time. Push at about 6 min to avoid tanks and pop. Wh- What? *rubs eyes* On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote: save 750 min to build 5 rax similtanously where scouting is difficult. O.O On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote: save 750 min to build 5 rax similtanously Surely we must have a reason for something so strange to ever cross your mind! On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote: Making rax as you go slows this down cause of scvs not mining. Ah. Let's not joke around here, sir: The real reason you need to build all those raxes at once isn't because it's economically efficient. Rather, it's because otherwise your push is far, far too late as your opponent will probably have something at least decent to fight back with. This is just a way of condensing the build time of one barracks in to five, giving you an early attack which is virtually impossible to win with if your opponent scouts it. A more exotic version of everything else on the dairy aisle, imo. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
http://spect.us/watch/5fb8bff3-54ce-42c7-89ee-b8df2ac8e276 | ||
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gimpy
United States72 Posts
I'll talk to Flash and get his approval to post my builds. You don't have to use this build, but stop raging when you lose to it. Us newbs don't like to be reminded about our newbishness on the cusp of victory. | ||
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Captain
United States204 Posts
I only rage when I win with a build like this ^_^ | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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gimpy
United States72 Posts
I don't scout early. I want the scv on minerals. I will attack before DTs, Collosi, Banshies or Tanks, so I don't need to know if they are teching. I just want to know where they are before I push. I'm going to push no matter what they have anyway. Can't let them get to tech. I might scout a z earlier cause banelings are trouble, and require serious rine micro. I won't chase stalkers around the map like the posted replay. DPS units need to be where they can DPS, not get kited. If there is brilliant kiting all the way back to the toss base, I don't know what could be done. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote: I agree. I had plans to investigate more such cases when it is better to pile up resources instead of spending them immediately when you have enough for the building you need ---> the main reason as you state is that it means workers still mine all the time. The more you delay the building process, the faster you reach it, with better economy. Thus, any combination of buildings you would like to have, which does not include co-dependency in itself (one of them requires another of them to be ready first), is better to build at once, instead of one by one. Or more precisely, it's a trade-off, and a choice to consider - if you get them one by one, you may open quicker reaction options, but if you hold them, your desired building configuration is reached earlier.Making rax as you go slows this down cause of scvs not mining. When all rax build, you can support constant pump and depot and scv production. This applies even more to zerg, because the drones don't even return to mining; and the least for protoss, because their building process is... just the pathing to location and back. But I daresay it still applies even to protoss, and so one can't easily conclude that a bunch of gateways, thrown at once, is inefficient play (as some commentators tend to imply). It allows you to avoid mulitple probe pulling off of mining, and do it with just one such pull. Another way to see this fact is through Evolution Forge, because usually the recommended moment to start building isn't when you have exactly enough resources; no, you usually have some excess, which fits with the quick build of the next structure, so that both finish simultaneously, and you can proceed asap with the next tech step etc. | ||
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Apollys
United States278 Posts
First, as PvT my general strat is fast stalker -> harass the wall/marines behind it, abusing range and shield regen (even with high ground, you can still attack without taking any real damage). That seems like it would force you to either switch strategies (build tech lab and marauders) or just watch your wall-in get crushed and mass protoss gateway units stream into your base. Secondly, as I said before, I'm a P player not T, why on a mass marine build do you build 6 separate rax's without addons as opposed to just 3 with reactors? (This is a general question for any terran player; it seems like it would be more cost effective) | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
This build seems more like a regular timing push (six fac) and can be recovered from than something that's truly all-in (two hatch lurker drop), simply because marines are so cheap. | ||
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Ramsing
Canada233 Posts
On July 22 2010 15:29 Apollys wrote: 2 questions: First, as PvT my general strat is fast stalker -> harass the wall/marines behind it, abusing range and shield regen (even with high ground, you can still attack without taking any real damage). That seems like it would force you to either switch strategies (build tech lab and marauders) or just watch your wall-in get crushed and mass protoss gateway units stream into your base. Secondly, as I said before, I'm a P player not T, why on a mass marine build do you build 6 separate rax's without addons as opposed to just 3 with reactors? (This is a general question for any terran player; it seems like it would be more cost effective) Reactors take a shitload of time and can leave you open to quick attacks because you have to wait for a few minutes before the benefit of the added production of a reactor kicks in. | ||
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HezzerBoy
Canada59 Posts
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Kahmunrah_
Singapore15 Posts
On July 22 2010 07:30 kcdc wrote: Blink and charge are probably my two favorite abilities in this game, so I'll often find myself in situations where T is just massing more MM than I can defend against if I want to expand. Throwing down a dark shrine for free map control to expand against much larger forces has won me a lot of games. If you just stagger your DTs so that you only lose 1 per scan, it's almost impossible for T to push till he gets ravens, and that delay lets your econ take over. not a fan of dt.. but it sounds good for this strat.. | ||
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