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[D] Simple T build got me to #1 in Diamond - Page 11

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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LF9
Profile Joined November 2009
United States537 Posts
July 21 2010 22:49 GMT
#201
The same could be said about any all-in mass T1 unit strat; I was able to get #1 Diamond by doing mass speedling busts on my secondary account, this is nothing new. But once you start playing decent players, you need to learn to play solid really fast. People in Diamond scout.
ZomgTossRush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1041 Posts
July 21 2010 22:58 GMT
#202
There are so many things wrong with this post, I don't even want to start.

Try reading some of the other more "legitimate" build suggestions.
Coaching for 1v1 and Team games at Gosucoaching.com
teemh
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada120 Posts
July 21 2010 23:03 GMT
#203
You had me at terran
aznhockeyboy16
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States558 Posts
July 21 2010 23:18 GMT
#204
lots of people in diamond suck... and if you cheese your way to victory 50% of the time, you will get a lot of points fast, since you get more points for winning than you lose for losing.

also, if I scout a terran and he doesn't have his gas I'm building 2 bunkers on my ramp, and scouting for cheese.
Sabresandiego
Profile Joined July 2010
United States227 Posts
July 21 2010 23:32 GMT
#205
On July 22 2010 08:18 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
lots of people in diamond suck... and if you cheese your way to victory 50% of the time, you will get a lot of points fast, since you get more points for winning than you lose for losing.

also, if I scout a terran and he doesn't have his gas I'm building 2 bunkers on my ramp, and scouting for cheese.


That isnt smart, because no gas could also mean a fast expand. That means you wasted half an expansions cost in minerals for useless bunkers. Yes you can get the minerals back, but its all about the timing of those minerals.
Terran
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
July 22 2010 02:05 GMT
#206
On July 22 2010 06:58 Sabresandiego wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 06:52 BlasiuS wrote:
On July 22 2010 06:49 Sabresandiego wrote:
This build transitions into other builds extremely well.


lol? Do you know what 'all-in' means?

I can tell you what it doesn't mean: a build that transitions into other builds extremely well.


This is not an all in build. You do not cut scv's at all, and you can transition. Who says this build has to be all in? You can even transition into an early expo, 4 gas bio mech if you want. Having 5-6 rax is something you would have anyways by midgame, you just get it early in this build and use it for pressure. This build is not an all in unless you play it that way, and you can if you want to.


try reading the damn OP before you start spewing garbage:

On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
Just wanted to share this all-in cause I haven't seen this build from anyone else yet, and I can't seem to lose!


next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
Sabresandiego
Profile Joined July 2010
United States227 Posts
July 22 2010 02:28 GMT
#207
On July 22 2010 11:05 BlasiuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 06:58 Sabresandiego wrote:
On July 22 2010 06:52 BlasiuS wrote:
On July 22 2010 06:49 Sabresandiego wrote:
This build transitions into other builds extremely well.


lol? Do you know what 'all-in' means?

I can tell you what it doesn't mean: a build that transitions into other builds extremely well.


This is not an all in build. You do not cut scv's at all, and you can transition. Who says this build has to be all in? You can even transition into an early expo, 4 gas bio mech if you want. Having 5-6 rax is something you would have anyways by midgame, you just get it early in this build and use it for pressure. This build is not an all in unless you play it that way, and you can if you want to.


try reading the damn OP before you start spewing garbage:

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
Just wanted to share this all-in cause I haven't seen this build from anyone else yet, and I can't seem to lose!




Its not all in if you stop producing marines once the build isnt working, or alter the build to be more adaptable. This build does not sacrifice your scv production whatsoever.
Terran
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:35:24
July 22 2010 03:34 GMT
#208
On July 22 2010 11:28 Sabresandiego wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:05 BlasiuS wrote:
On July 22 2010 06:58 Sabresandiego wrote:
On July 22 2010 06:52 BlasiuS wrote:
On July 22 2010 06:49 Sabresandiego wrote:
This build transitions into other builds extremely well.


lol? Do you know what 'all-in' means?

I can tell you what it doesn't mean: a build that transitions into other builds extremely well.


This is not an all in build. You do not cut scv's at all, and you can transition. Who says this build has to be all in? You can even transition into an early expo, 4 gas bio mech if you want. Having 5-6 rax is something you would have anyways by midgame, you just get it early in this build and use it for pressure. This build is not an all in unless you play it that way, and you can if you want to.


try reading the damn OP before you start spewing garbage:

On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
Just wanted to share this all-in cause I haven't seen this build from anyone else yet, and I can't seem to lose!




Its not all in if you stop producing marines once the build isnt working, or alter the build to be more adaptable. This build does not sacrifice your scv production whatsoever.


It is absolutely an all-in. You don't have to cut SCVs too much, but if you don't do significant damage with the attack, you are left with 6 barracks that you can't support as soon as you decide to transition, no gas, and no tech. Against T, your opponent will have tanks by the time you get gas. Against P, your opponent will have DTs or ranged collosi before you can respond with a starport. Against Z, you're going to be out-based and up against larger numbers of muta-baneling than you can handle.

If you do a lot of damage, you'll stay even or pull ahead. If you're easily forced to retreat, you're way behind. This is the definition of an all-in.
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
July 22 2010 03:45 GMT
#209
On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
Kinda goofy but I play T and this build has been working against all 3 races. Pretty much just standard depot, rax, depot, rine to deny scouting, orbital command and save 750 min to build 5 rax similtanously where scouting is difficult. SCVs the whole time. Push at about 6 min to avoid tanks and pop.


Wh-

What? *rubs eyes*

On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
save 750 min to build 5 rax similtanously where scouting is difficult.


O.O

On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
save 750 min to build 5 rax similtanously


Surely we must have a reason for something so strange to ever cross your mind!

On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
Making rax as you go slows this down cause of scvs not mining.


Ah. Let's not joke around here, sir: The real reason you need to build all those raxes at once isn't because it's economically efficient. Rather, it's because otherwise your push is far, far too late as your opponent will probably have something at least decent to fight back with. This is just a way of condensing the build time of one barracks in to five, giving you an early attack which is virtually impossible to win with if your opponent scouts it.

A more exotic version of everything else on the dairy aisle, imo.
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Cloak
Profile Joined October 2009
United States816 Posts
July 22 2010 03:50 GMT
#210
Just linking this game for those who have irrational animosity toward builds like these:
http://spect.us/watch/5fb8bff3-54ce-42c7-89ee-b8df2ac8e276
The more you know, the less you understand.
gimpy
Profile Joined June 2010
United States72 Posts
July 22 2010 04:47 GMT
#211
Do I have to be B+ to post a build-order that got me to Diamond? Can I claim to be #1 in Diamond if I'm #1 in Diamond and only 260? Does a build have to be fool-proof to be good? Is a 85% win-rate vs diamond players who are good at scouting not quite high enough?

I'll talk to Flash and get his approval to post my builds.

You don't have to use this build, but stop raging when you lose to it. Us newbs don't like to be reminded about our newbishness on the cusp of victory.
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
July 22 2010 04:57 GMT
#212
Personally, I don't rage when I lose against people who I feel I shouldn't have lost to for whatever reason; if I lost, it's due to something I did wrong.

I only rage when I win with a build like this ^_^
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
July 22 2010 05:18 GMT
#213
--- Nuked ---
gimpy
Profile Joined June 2010
United States72 Posts
July 22 2010 06:02 GMT
#214
I think of this as mostly all-in, but I didn't tweak it enough for it to be really all in. This delayed 6 rax (or delayed 5 rax) could be much quicker if I knew when I could cut scvs and still support the raxes and depots 100%. Waiting for release to figure that out.

I don't scout early. I want the scv on minerals. I will attack before DTs, Collosi, Banshies or Tanks, so I don't need to know if they are teching. I just want to know where they are before I push. I'm going to push no matter what they have anyway. Can't let them get to tech. I might scout a z earlier cause banelings are trouble, and require serious rine micro.

I won't chase stalkers around the map like the posted replay. DPS units need to be where they can DPS, not get kited. If there is brilliant kiting all the way back to the toss base, I don't know what could be done.

figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 06:38:24
July 22 2010 06:24 GMT
#215
On July 18 2010 14:26 gimpy wrote:
Making rax as you go slows this down cause of scvs not mining. When all rax build, you can support constant pump and depot and scv production.
I agree. I had plans to investigate more such cases when it is better to pile up resources instead of spending them immediately when you have enough for the building you need ---> the main reason as you state is that it means workers still mine all the time. The more you delay the building process, the faster you reach it, with better economy. Thus, any combination of buildings you would like to have, which does not include co-dependency in itself (one of them requires another of them to be ready first), is better to build at once, instead of one by one. Or more precisely, it's a trade-off, and a choice to consider - if you get them one by one, you may open quicker reaction options, but if you hold them, your desired building configuration is reached earlier.

This applies even more to zerg, because the drones don't even return to mining; and the least for protoss, because their building process is... just the pathing to location and back. But I daresay it still applies even to protoss, and so one can't easily conclude that a bunch of gateways, thrown at once, is inefficient play (as some commentators tend to imply). It allows you to avoid mulitple probe pulling off of mining, and do it with just one such pull. Another way to see this fact is through Evolution Forge, because usually the recommended moment to start building isn't when you have exactly enough resources; no, you usually have some excess, which fits with the quick build of the next structure, so that both finish simultaneously, and you can proceed asap with the next tech step etc.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Apollys
Profile Joined July 2010
United States278 Posts
July 22 2010 06:29 GMT
#216
2 questions:

First, as PvT my general strat is fast stalker -> harass the wall/marines behind it, abusing range and shield regen (even with high ground, you can still attack without taking any real damage). That seems like it would force you to either switch strategies (build tech lab and marauders) or just watch your wall-in get crushed and mass protoss gateway units stream into your base.

Secondly, as I said before, I'm a P player not T, why on a mass marine build do you build 6 separate rax's without addons as opposed to just 3 with reactors? (This is a general question for any terran player; it seems like it would be more cost effective)
When you're feeling down, I'll be there to feel you up!
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
July 22 2010 06:46 GMT
#217
Whether you expand or not before doing a timing attack makes a HUGE difference. It's the difference between two hatch muta and three hatch muta, or the difference between one base sair-reaver and two base sair-reaver. They look similar and use all the same units, but they play out completely differently.

This build seems more like a regular timing push (six fac) and can be recovered from than something that's truly all-in (two hatch lurker drop), simply because marines are so cheap.
But why?
Ramsing
Profile Joined July 2007
Canada233 Posts
July 22 2010 07:23 GMT
#218
On July 22 2010 15:29 Apollys wrote:
2 questions:

First, as PvT my general strat is fast stalker -> harass the wall/marines behind it, abusing range and shield regen (even with high ground, you can still attack without taking any real damage). That seems like it would force you to either switch strategies (build tech lab and marauders) or just watch your wall-in get crushed and mass protoss gateway units stream into your base.

Secondly, as I said before, I'm a P player not T, why on a mass marine build do you build 6 separate rax's without addons as opposed to just 3 with reactors? (This is a general question for any terran player; it seems like it would be more cost effective)


Reactors take a shitload of time and can leave you open to quick attacks because you have to wait for a few minutes before the benefit of the added production of a reactor kicks in.
HezzerBoy
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada59 Posts
July 22 2010 07:38 GMT
#219
I did similar build in phase one.. only difference i would get barracks i had money and just build straight marines and pressure really early vs protoss b4 they get WG... i won many many many games in a row quite easily with it at high diamond levels... however 2 gate stalker opening would beat the living crap out of this build.
-FTW
Kahmunrah_
Profile Joined July 2010
Singapore15 Posts
July 22 2010 07:52 GMT
#220
On July 22 2010 07:30 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 07:03 Sabresandiego wrote:
On July 22 2010 03:23 kcdc wrote:
Here's my replay of Avilo using this strat against my P that I'd described above. Was on the run and couldn't upload yesterday.

[image loading]


Good replay. Dark Templars are an excellent transition against this build and it scared Avilo into retreating. Had he kept charging forward instead of retreating to defend his base, he could have possibly won the game at that point since your expansion left you with an inferior army. Him retreating made your expansion win the game. Dark templars are probably the best transition against this build since it lacks the tech buildings for detection.


Blink and charge are probably my two favorite abilities in this game, so I'll often find myself in situations where T is just massing more MM than I can defend against if I want to expand. Throwing down a dark shrine for free map control to expand against much larger forces has won me a lot of games. If you just stagger your DTs so that you only lose 1 per scan, it's almost impossible for T to push till he gets ravens, and that delay lets your econ take over.


not a fan of dt.. but it sounds good for this strat..
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