• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:39
CEST 05:39
KST 12:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion Diplomacy, Cosmonarchy Edition BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1507 users

[D] Simple T build got me to #1 in Diamond - Page 19

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 17 18 19 All
XiaoZhuPa
Profile Joined May 2010
Singapore30 Posts
August 07 2010 04:51 GMT
#361
What maps do you guys thumb down if any at all? (When doing these builds)
Eat Me.
gimpy
Profile Joined June 2010
United States72 Posts
August 10 2010 19:13 GMT
#362
Try this out in 3v3 or 4v4. Works great when all your builds mature around 6:30 mark. Its a steam-roll. I'm playing with some new teammates (no bw experience, little beta experience) and we've gotten to diamond with a nice 3/1 win ratio.
gimpy
Profile Joined June 2010
United States72 Posts
August 10 2010 19:18 GMT
#363
Kiting stalkers across the map and really good FF play can counter this build. Z still have few options, but they have to play brillianly. Build v T on Steps of War is an auto-win. I'm playing standard lately to improve my skill, and boy...this game is hard! I'll 6 rax just to get a win so I can feel better about myself!
Keap
Profile Joined July 2010
United States214 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-10 20:17:41
August 10 2010 20:16 GMT
#364
Just beat a diamond Terran doing this with 2 sentries, 2 stalkers, and 1 cannon lol. Opponent left the game when he scanned and saw twilight council

He could have def controlled better tho
Nah
Profile Joined February 2010
Poland50 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-10 22:33:02
August 10 2010 22:32 GMT
#365
Did you see the variation of this? Making a bunker expo and THEN 5-6 raxing. Protoss opponent might see the expo and put one on his side therefore falling into the trap of upcoming tide of marines.
Protoss wins it all
Mrbustanut
Profile Joined May 2010
121 Posts
August 10 2010 22:54 GMT
#366
On August 11 2010 07:32 Nah wrote:
Did you see the variation of this? Making a bunker expo and THEN 5-6 raxing. Protoss opponent might see the expo and put one on his side therefore falling into the trap of upcoming tide of marines.


Ya, I think masq made that build a while ago.
mrdx
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Vietnam1555 Posts
August 14 2010 14:19 GMT
#367
I tried to find any useful discussion on how to defend this as a P but OMFG this thread is full of garbage posts it was such a pain to read through 18 pages of mostly nerdrage.

Let me get these 2 things straight:

- This is a viable build, and it's very strong against Protoss. Please do NOT try to argue against it if you haven't encountered it first hand yet.

- The OP suggested to wait for 750mins before building the rax - that's a VALID tactic since Starcraft 1. Iirc since 2003 Boxer began to always build 2 rax at 300mins when he double raxed, and later Oov made building 4 simultaneous facts (after FE) a standard practice on Luna. One benefit of this trick was so that SCVs don't obstruct each other when they were constructing buildings next to each other - this has been fixed in SC2 and no longer true. But the second benefit - which is much more important - still remains: by doing so, you (a) gain some extra mining time, (b) you later train units in cycles since your units need to reach a number to be useful anyway, (c) hold it til the last moment to have more time to clear the scout, and/or in case you need to switch to plan B if your scout discover something.

Btw if someone has any idea on how to stop this as a Protoss, please share. I've just lost 2 games in a row to this (I'm 400 diamond)
BoxerForever.com - the one and only international Boxer fansite since 2006 :)
mrdx
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Vietnam1555 Posts
August 14 2010 14:37 GMT
#368
To add some real discussion to this thread, here are my unorganized thoughts so far to counter this build as Protoss:

- It's really hard to micro stalkers against this especially if you don't have a superior APM. because it requires much less control effort for the T than P if this becomes a rine vs stalker micro fight.

- On Blistering Sands this build is even deadlier as there are 2 ramps for the toss to hold. I had to remove it from my map pool for now would love to be able to beat it on BSands someday.

- Unless Terran's control is really bad, P just can't have enough time to tech to colossus or chargelot or DT - if you can, please prove me wrong with a rep.

- I tried fast cannons into FE once, which could barely hold off the first and 2nd wave, but still couldn't transition it into FE and lost eventually due to being to passive with static defence.

- The only counter idea that I could think of now is to mass sentry and add 1 or 2 zealots or stalkers to it - inspired by Tester vs Masq. Tester used sentries as the main attacking force, and he used FF to trap rines and break formation very well. It requires really really good micro to pull off though, I haven't had a chance to try it yet..
BoxerForever.com - the one and only international Boxer fansite since 2006 :)
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-14 15:38:22
August 14 2010 15:37 GMT
#369
On August 14 2010 23:19 mrdx wrote:
I tried to find any useful discussion on how to defend this as a P but OMFG this thread is full of garbage posts it was such a pain to read through 18 pages of mostly nerdrage.

Let me get these 2 things straight:

- This is a viable build, and it's very strong against Protoss. Please do NOT try to argue against it if you haven't encountered it first hand yet.

- The OP suggested to wait for 750mins before building the rax - that's a VALID tactic since Starcraft 1. Iirc since 2003 Boxer began to always build 2 rax at 300mins when he double raxed, and later Oov made building 4 simultaneous facts (after FE) a standard practice on Luna. One benefit of this trick was so that SCVs don't obstruct each other when they were constructing buildings next to each other - this has been fixed in SC2 and no longer true. But the second benefit - which is much more important - still remains: by doing so, you (a) gain some extra mining time, (b) you later train units in cycles since your units need to reach a number to be useful anyway, (c) hold it til the last moment to have more time to clear the scout, and/or in case you need to switch to plan B if your scout discover something.

Btw if someone has any idea on how to stop this as a Protoss, please share. I've just lost 2 games in a row to this (I'm 400 diamond)


a) that makes absolutely no sense. how do you gain mining time by building something later?
b) i rather have units faster even if they come out in a stream than in packs (which is not an advantage imo)
c)if the scout is still in my base i will delay it a bit, however i will never wait if it isnt.

Read these posts, I want this friggin argument to end

On July 22 2010 19:41 ChickenLips wrote:
I just played both builds (start building Raxes asap, wait for 750 minerals) and results are: insta-rax are about 30 seconds faster in getting 24 marines. Marine production starts way sooner and you are a lot less susceptible to weird early rushes. (waiting for 750 minerals took 6:50 to get 24 marines, insta Raxes took 6:15-6:20.

Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 19:21 whatthemate wrote:
At first I was confused as to what Sabresandiego said, but now I understand what he theoretically suggested, but that doesn't change the fact that he is completely WRONG.

Practically speaking you have a much larger window of opportunity of attack if you place down barracks consecutively early asap and get more marines.

If you attempt the float 750 minerals style you will have less marines and timing attack goes out the window because all it takes is just a sentry to force field their ramp or your ramp and its all over while protoss tech so insanely fast to colossi. Also in the mean time protoss could easily get out a second nexus and more gas and mass cannon > marine.

scvs mine what less than say 50 minerals per minute because of diminishing returns. It's better to have less scvs on mineral line and use that scv to make rax because of diminishing returns. There are already dimishing returns as soon as your have more than 8 scvs on mineral line. So its better to make rax earlier and then return to mining.


if there are 16 scvs on minerals that have had time to adjust to each others mining cycles i cannot imagine that there are diminishing returns since they never interfere with other scv's mining.

Other than that i fully agree, the waiting for 750 minerals is like the (double) extractor trick, feels kinda cool and effective, but is economically worse off.


On July 22 2010 23:28 ChickenLips wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 22:34 kcdc wrote:
Regarding the 'waiting-to-build' argument, the number of scvs and total mining time once the barracks are completed is going to be the same whether you wait for 750 minerals or build continuously, so the total minerals you'll have is going to be the same. As long as you keep your minerals low, you'll have spent the same number of resources and will therefore have the same number of marines either way you do it. The difference is that building the barracks as soon as you have the minerals for them and constantly building marines from all completed barracks will give you more marines early and will slow the completion of your last barracks.

Theory aside, the 'build-as-you-go' style isn't really an option because you'll only be able to chase off the scouting worker once your marine is finished, and even then, it will take a while to chase the worker down. You're not going to push out with less than 8 or so marines, so the only way you can get to that number faster with by 'building-as-you-go' is if you can complete your second barracks to start the increased marine production before you start your sixth barracks. By the time you've chased the worker down with your marine, you'll be less than 60 seconds away from having the 750 minerals you need for the 5 barracks. IMO, it's just better to wait because it minimizes your opponent's scouting window, clumps your marine production in waves so they don't rally across the map alone, and assures you of the fastest possible wave of marines to start your push.


Test it in YABOT or something, you have the units 30 seconds earlier, that is HUGE for an early game all in push. I don't get why people theorycraft instead of just trying both things. Having minerals in the bank makes NO sense whatsoever. If you had to produce 200 marines it might be more convenient, but for an all in every second matters and I'd much rather (and it was proven by my tests) start marine production from as many raxes as my money flow allows, as possible.


edit: i also dont care what pros did in BW, if there are no reasonable arguments for sc2.
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
Prev 1 17 18 19 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#49
SteadfastSC250
EnkiAlexander 87
davetesta44
Liquipedia
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft480
SteadfastSC 250
Nina 190
RuFF_SC2 124
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 54
Noble 51
NaDa 41
Icarus 9
Dota 2
monkeys_forever751
NeuroSwarm125
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 380
Stewie2K172
semphis_35
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King28
Other Games
summit1g5262
shahzam1010
C9.Mang0321
ViBE181
XaKoH 89
Trikslyr50
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick646
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2883
League of Legends
• Rush941
• Lourlo684
• Stunt297
Other Games
• Scarra1760
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
7h 22m
OSC
15h 22m
RSL Revival
1d 6h
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
1d 9h
RSL Revival
2 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.