EPTZvT How the HELL does Z counter Seige Tanks?
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LF9
United States537 Posts
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InTriX
United Kingdom149 Posts
Try spaceing it out ith paragraphs looking at that wall makes my eyes blur :/ If you watch high level games, you can see some strats include over lord dropping and then running in with the rest of your army. Also if its late game, Ultras are sooooo good against mech. | ||
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
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UberThing
Great Britain410 Posts
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TheOracle
Australia256 Posts
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
It requires one thing though: map control. If you don't have map control you can't set up any kind of a flank/ambush/counter and in a straight on 1a2a3a fight you will always lose. Never fight them on their terms, make them walk into yours. On the other hand, even with macro advantage, tech advantage, resource advantage, and supply count advantage, I've no way to definitively beat a Terran on 2 bases who is pumping mech (if the mech includes thors). I've tried everything. I've even let a Terran player I beat remain alive in game, let him tech up, I had a 200/200 army just waiting for him and I STILL couldn't win. Its really awful how one sided it is. Not saying that its broken, just saying that NO ONE has been able to prove there's a way to do it yet. Edit: trying to figure out how to upload a replay of that last scenario now. I seriously just let him remain in the game to make some mech, and I was waiting for him and still couldn't do it. Its possible... I even used some ultras... but its way way way harder than "balanced". | ||
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FC.Strike
United States621 Posts
Without replays, I find it hard to give any more useful advice. Go watch Cool's VoDs vs. Maka from the 17173 world cup and upload some of your own replays. | ||
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brinbran
United States52 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
You just need to use all your tricks to delay the push and get to tier 3 in time so try to get a good unburrow on him with your roaches harass hard and use overlords to full extent. Dropping roaches on top of the tanks also works fairly well. Overlords can take quite some beating from thors. If you were reffering to bio and tanks which is less common then mass lings works fine, just try to get the tanks when he is on the move. Tanks can´t 1 shot packs of lings anymore so they actually work with proper positioning | ||
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KIM0SABE
United States7 Posts
On July 15 2010 10:02 InTriX wrote: text wall of doom. Try spaceing it out ith paragraphs looking at that wall makes my eyes blur :/ If you watch high level games, you can see some strats include over lord dropping and then running in with the rest of your army. Also if its late game, Ultras are sooooo good against mech. Took the words right out of my mouth. I have found that the best way for me to deal with not only mech, but mass tank as well is a decent ultra/speed ling army. Send the Ultra's in first as a big ole' meat shield, and then send the speed lings in after for a surround. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
You are right that tanks are rediculously good vs Z. T1 & T2 units are just worthless in lategame, 200 pop melts in seconds. Ultras works too but you need a sizeable number, catch him out of position and hope you can drop without him noticing/countering. If they just could revert tank AI to SC1 it would all be good. It dosn't matter if tank dmg is nerfed, that was never the problem in the first case. Hydras still 2-shotted and so on. The dmg reduction only helped toss units or ultras, while the nerf was intended to weaken mech vs Z | ||
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ztranger
Sweden57 Posts
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
 Well vs mech Z has it a bit harsh I'd say, since it can be really hard to get out of the mindset of fighting his army rather than keeping his unit count down and/or forcing him to make units he doesn't want to make. Tanks are really expensive and do truely suck until they are like 5+(or have good position). If you get to the point that the T has critical mass, you hopefully have broodlords(or ultras, which do work pretty well, esp. since it again forces the T to make unit he doesn't want to make) on the way which guarded with a mix of units(hydras, corruptors, mutas) can really wreck havoc. Blings loaded in ovies are also decent/good, esp. if there is already an air battle going on. Else roaches do pretty decently still I'd say as long as the T doesn't totally get to pick the terrain and you can get flank + good concaves ASAP(burrowed roaches *can* work or backfire, depending on the enemy).. Else I'd really recommend trying to not fight T forces, rather try doing doomdrops or faking doomdrops and catching the tanks moving back to the base. Nydus I'd also say is underused, but it ofcourse is a hit/miss kinda thing. | ||
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claricorp
Canada142 Posts
they deal massive amounts of damage at a very very long range, though they cannot move while sieged. because of this nydus worms and overlord drops are EXTREMELY effective against a tank heavy terran. spreading creep out everywhere, using overlords on high ground and changelings(my favorite) you can keep an eye on when they are sieged and not sieged, then strike with speedlings. however if they are already at your doorstep then infestors and roaches are pretty much the best things you have. my personal favorite is sending a wave of infestors behind the ball(burrow move), sending in a small wave of speedlings followed by banelings( or just roaches) to deal with rines and rauders but mainly to take the tanks first shot. while this is happening you can do several things with your infestors such as using infested terrans beside the tanks, neural parisiting them and vaporizing his main ball and then apply fungal growth liberally so they cant pop your channeling infestors. infestors are pretty much the direct counter to siege tanks if the game gets really far along though burrow move roaches followed by a quick wave of speedlings for a surround works VERY well. | ||
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OneManZerg
United States11 Posts
Otherwise you'll want to time your fight properly so that you hit him right when he's about to move, and preferably from multiple sides. Lastly, if they don't have a lot of marines you can take in some mutalisks and then push in on them: Hope those help... | ||
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LF9
United States537 Posts
I wasn't even talking really about pure mech, but just like 1 (2 tops) factories pumping seige tanks supported by a regular early game army, Marines, few marauders and Hellions and whatnot. The push can come pretty damn early if it's a push, certainly before Zerg can have 3 bases up and running. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On July 15 2010 10:22 LF9 wrote: I think you guys misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about beating Tanks in a large macro game of like 2-3 base vs 3-4 base or whatever. I'm talking relatively early game. Tanks DO come pretty early, and it's tough fending them off with Tier 1 units and early Tier 2 units. I wasn't even talking really about pure mech, but just like 1 (2 tops) factories pumping seige tanks supported by a regular early game army, Marines, few marauders and Hellions and whatnot. The push can come pretty damn early if it's a push, certainly before Zerg can have 3 bases up and running. You mean a marine tank push? Just catch em unsieged with anything, really. I think Speedling infestor might work there. If it's early, you have the advantage vs full mech, but you're a bit worse off vs bio mech and you need to clarify which you're dealing with. EDIT: you edited. | ||
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LF9
United States537 Posts
Edit: haha yea | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
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