Dear All,

I normally play Protoss, and I am uncertain when is the best time to purchase upgrades as opposed to simply buying additional units. I'm also unsure in which order to get the upgrades. I tend to favor +1 ground attack, but this isn't based on anything other then the fact that I like to do more damage ;-). Has anyone done the math on this, or just played a large enough number of games to get general set of guide lines?

Thanks!
*Edit* Forgot the [H] tag, sorry.

rezoacken

Canada2719 Posts

May 31 2010 23:55 GMT

The way you must see upgrades :

What must be taken into account when thinking about them is more about how much less hits unit X will have to do in order to kill unit Y. For example :
Zergling are anoying, +1 attack will make Zealots 2shot them instead of 3shots, +2 Attackwill make Collossus one shot them instead of 2.
Therefore if your opponent is likely to make zergling and your mid-game army will have Zealots, get +1 upgrade, if you have colossus +2 will help you a lot.

You must think about mid-game for upgrades since they are slow and costly you must purchase them soon enough though.

Armor upgrades is the other way around, it will counter your opponent attack upgrades. To make unit X take more hits by unit Y. A 1 armor Zergling will need 3 hits by a Zealot 0 or 1 attack forcing the protoss to take the +2 attack.

In conclusion, you must find purposes in thos terms for your upgrades.

P.S : Attack is considered better outside of these considerations. And you can always research them if you have extra cash.
Watch the white ra vs sen D9Dayly for an example.

Skyro

United States1823 Posts

June 01 2010 02:33 GMT

Generally, unless you need them for a specific reason i.e. +1 attack for zerglings or +1 armor vs marines or whatever, you basically want to hold off on upgrades until after you tech to whatever you want to tech to since upgrades are a bit hefty in gas costs.

It's also nice to time your upgrades so that you push right as your upgrade(s) finish, making it much more likely you'll have an upgrade advantage over your opponent.

Also don't forget you can plop down a 2nd forge to get your upgrades quicker, usually after you secure at least 1 expo.

Jacobs Ladder

United States1705 Posts

June 01 2010 02:47 GMT

In addition to what people above said, I tend to throw down an early second forge if I win the first battle, and a late one if I lose the first. If I win the first battle with a large army left over, I'm in good shape and can spare the resources, if I lose I need to put that towards trying to catch up in food, I throw it down after I feel a little safer.

FranktheTank

United States12 Posts

June 01 2010 15:58 GMT

Like the posters above have stated getting attack upgrades vs. Zerg is great, and so is armor vs. Terran. In PvP games I tend to pick up my weapons upgrades earlier in order to stay ahead of my opponent.

Also once you have a second forge after your expansion I prefer to get the shield upgrade vs. Zerg and Protoss, and weapons vs Terran. Shields are useless vs Terran because of EMP.In PvP I usually use blink stalkers which you can blink away when their shields go down. The same is true PvZ, additionally HTs -> Archons benefit greatly from shields.

0mar

United States567 Posts

June 01 2010 17:00 GMT

IMO, armor is only (barely) worthwhile against Zerg. Protoss/Terran units do too much damage for armor to make any difference.

stickman.hqt

United States47 Posts

June 01 2010 18:29 GMT

I favor weapons as stated before for certain unit comps. People will start dissecting the numbers to give more definitive answers about the upgrades. The math done is actually quite well done by blizzard when taking into account how many shots it takes to down something. People think that the damage upgrades are insignificant, but if you do some tests shooting each of the units you will see just how effective the upgrades are.

As far as armor/shield. I actually like shield more even with the cost. Since most units have equal shield or more than hit points in addition to affecting buildings and shields regenerate quite fast now. In either case I skip them in favor of weapons if I only can do one.

Yokoblue

Canada594 Posts

June 01 2010 18:40 GMT

Against Zerg and Terran i will get ground defense mid game

Against Protoss i usually go for speed upgrade (ready at first push) of attack and I usually got a big advantage in some fights... if you go mass stalker push or mass zealot you really got a big upper hand... Stalker can own immortal or zealot wayyy faster and you can micro a lot with a upgrade of attack.

it depends on the situation. If I go for void rays or speed coll i wont get them until my 200 gas for range upgrade since gas is so important early in a speed coll.

Its up to which strat your going. For me its :

vs T = Ground Defense do defend against fast ranged units (rine mara)
vs Z = Ground defense to make lings useless against zealots and get a lot more to kill stalkers
vs P = Attack upgrade, really fast or tech then get them

FeLonius

61 Posts

June 01 2010 20:37 GMT

On June 02 2010 03:40 Yokoblue wrote:
Against Zerg and Terran i will get ground defense mid game

Against Protoss i usually go for speed upgrade (ready at first push) of attack and I usually got a big advantage in some fights... if you go mass stalker push or mass zealot you really got a big upper hand... Stalker can own immortal or zealot wayyy faster and you can micro a lot with a upgrade of attack.

it depends on the situation. If I go for void rays or speed coll i wont get them until my 200 gas for range upgrade since gas is so important early in a speed coll.

Its up to which strat your going. For me its :

vs T = Ground Defense do defend against fast ranged units (rine mara)
vs Z = Ground defense to make lings useless against zealots and get a lot more to kill stalkers
vs P = Attack upgrade, really fast or tech then get them

If you're going stalker heavy, +1 attack really isn't that good imo, since you only get +1 dmg, whereas zealots get +2 (+1 on both attacks), immortals get +5 (I think that's it?) etc. I prefer the shield upgrade for stalkers, although that's a bit too costly and slow unless I feel I am in a comfortable position.

CryMore

United States497 Posts

June 01 2010 20:49 GMT

#10

Upgrades become really important once army sizes get substantially large. If your on 2 base with 6+ warp gates then that is a good time to drop double forges for quick chrono'd warp gates.

Another thing is for timing attacks. +1 weapons allows immortals to 2shot a stimmed marauder and allows zealots to 2 shot a zergling. Using these can be very powerful once you get the timing down.

vsT = shields are worthless because of the ghost so always try to stay even or ahead in armor upgrades with the terran weapons.
vsZ = most zergs drop double evos so your best bet is when you scout double evos your should double forge to stay even. You do NOT want zerg to be ahead in upgrades because their strategy revolves around massing units = upgrades matter more.
vsP = weapon upgrades once your on 2 base and 2 robo. Collosus just destroy everything on the ground so armor/shields won't help you very much. Weapons will make your Collosus kill their ground stuff much faster.