EPTNonY Vs. IdrA (Spoiler alert) strat discussion - Page 8
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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DC Elite
United States152 Posts
It seemed every game the protoss was the attacker and just bashed himself into the zerg base, but wasnt really prepared to fight. A lot of games i lose as zerg the toss doesnt give two shits about my FE because 5 minutes later he steam rolls over everything with a great mix of chargelots, stalkers, sentries and 2 immortals. I havent found a counter to it and i dont think FE/hydra gets up and running fast enough. Game 1, the protoss attacked too early to take down the exapnsion, which he should probably have ignored. Pplus, he tried a run-by, but forcefield pinned/split his own army? wtf was that? Game 2, the phoenix harass was cute, but utterly useless at doing anything. Again, he used forcefield so pathetically that i almost wonder if hes every played protoss before. To not split the army on the ramp was just delaying his inevitable defeat by 30 seconds. Awful. Game 3 was more interesting and one i think the protoss had a chance at winning, but he left his collusus wide open on the final push to be beaten by the mutas. He only had 2 left by the time he got to the base! What an ugly ugly silver league looking kind of play to have half your army so far ahead of your collosus. I almost feel like the toss panics and cant think straight at the face of battles. If he kept his army in tact, it could have been a base race, but instead it ended up being the zerg won both battle fronts, which never happens in this game. How can you attack and defend and win both? Domination. The protoss played so badly is what it came down to. Which is sad that it takes that much awful play for a zerg to beat protoss, who usually crush those matchups. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
so so many like the post above me nony did not play "so badly" jesus christ u have no idea what ur talking about sorry if I am being mean.. but people shouldn't post like they are authoratative when they totally aren't. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45175 Posts
On May 19 2010 03:08 DC Elite wrote: I would have loved to see an immortal timing push at the pro level. It seemed every game the protoss was the attacker and just bashed himself into the zerg base, but wasnt really prepared to fight. A lot of games i lose as zerg the toss doesnt give two shits about my FE because 5 minutes later he steam rolls over everything with a great mix of chargelots, stalkers, sentries and 2 immortals. I havent found a counter to it and i dont think FE/hydra gets up and running fast enough. Game 1, the protoss attacked too early to take down the exapnsion, which he should probably have ignored. Pplus, he tried a run-by, but forcefield pinned/split his own army? wtf was that? Game 2, the phoenix harass was cute, but utterly useless at doing anything. Again, he used forcefield so pathetically that i almost wonder if hes every played protoss before. To not split the army on the ramp was just delaying his inevitable defeat by 30 seconds. Awful. Game 3 was more interesting and one i think the protoss had a chance at winning, but he left his collusus wide open on the final push to be beaten by the mutas. He only had 2 left by the time he got to the base! What an ugly ugly silver league looking kind of play to have half your army so far ahead of your collosus. I almost feel like the toss panics and cant think straight at the face of battles. If he kept his army in tact, it could have been a base race, but instead it ended up being the zerg won both battle fronts, which never happens in this game. How can you attack and defend and win both? Domination. The protoss played so badly is what it came down to. Which is sad that it takes that much awful play for a zerg to beat protoss, who usually crush those matchups. Your first post on this forum is used to call Nony a silver league player? Really? Come on now. Do you think you could do better against Idra? Do you think you could do anything against Nony even? Nony didn't play perfectly, but your tone is a bit too harsh. The second and third games were pretty entertaining, IMO. | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
On May 19 2010 03:08 DC Elite wrote: I would have loved to see an immortal timing push at the pro level. Immortal push vs.... zerglings and hydras? I want whatever you are smoking. That first line alone invalidated the rest of your post. Great games. Game 1 would've gone on a lot longer if Nony had kept his base plugged. Game 2 I think it would have had a bit different outcome if those nixes were used to kill drones in the flybys instead of overlords, they are extremely strong with moving shot and grav beam to 2 shot drones. He could've atleast dampened Idra's eco enough to not be able to make 25+ hydras in the following 1-2 mins of time and gotten an expo down. Game 3 was awesome play, also a zerg favored map-- the doomdrop was great and lings halted expos very efficiently. The random changeling was funny though. | ||
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DC Elite
United States152 Posts
In game 1, the toss panicked so much he pinned himself aganst a wall and split his own army with his own forcefields. IN game 3 he split panicked and left his colossus wide open. Maybe the zerg is just that good at making people have to think too fast and click too much that the toss couldnt keep up. | ||
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DC Elite
United States152 Posts
On May 19 2010 03:28 baconbits wrote: Immortal push vs.... zerglings and hydras? I want whatever you are smoking. The TWO immortal, zealot, stalker, sentry push is so early mid game that the FE hydras arnt at quite at capacity yet and are unprepared. Its a common plat push that crushes zerg. Collosus come out too late, the hydras are already full steam by then. Its a way better idea than sacraficing your early zealots and sentry's to try and stop the FE and fail/forcefield pin yourself against a wall. | ||
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
On May 19 2010 03:34 DC Elite wrote: The TWO immortal, zealot, stalker, sentry push is so early mid game that the FE hydras arnt at quite at capacity yet and are unprepared. Its a common plat push that crushes zerg. Collosus come out too late, the hydras are already full steam by then. Its a way better idea than sacraficing your early zealots and sentry's to try and stop the FE and fail/forcefield pin yourself against a wall. Immortal hardened shields have almost no benefit versus hydra, and absolutely none versus zerglings. a 4 gate or 5 gate is more effective as the resources for immortals are better put in more sentry/stalker/zealot or atleast upgrading to get colossi out which absolutely MURDER hydra forcing some anti air from zerg. A simple +1 ground attack upgrade would be more useful then any immortals. And they get absolutely NO benefit at all from +30 armored damage bonus. Hell, maybe if there was a big mess of sunkens, but 1 sunken doesn't really constitute a need for immortals. btw "a plat push?" lol you serious? the 4 gate robo or 3 gate robo immortal build has been around forever and anyone who's played protoss at all and knows what build orders are have learned it by now. Immortals however, are a huge waste of gas vs a ling + hydra combination. Hell, its not even a "push" its usually an all-in strategy. A push is like old school terran leapfrogging tanks to push out. its an all-in timing attack meant to hit before t2 zerg get in full production mode. | ||
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DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
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Spidermonkey
United States251 Posts
On May 19 2010 03:29 DC Elite wrote: I dont who that guy is, but the protoss player obviously had some issues under pressure. You don't know who NonY is and are bashing him? Go learn about NonY before commenting please. You reinforce the low count poster stereotype. | ||
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DC Elite
United States152 Posts
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PROJECTILE
United States226 Posts
On May 19 2010 03:44 Spidermonkey wrote: You don't know who NonY is and are bashing him? Go learn about NonY before commenting please. You reinforce the low count poster stereotype. Ad hominem fallacy. Doesn't refute anything he said. Just because he has played before under pressure and performed well doesn't mean he always will. My opinion is that he probably just had an off day. I don't think he'd usually make those mistakes :shrug: | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
god so many idiots in this thread so so many like the post above me nony did not play "so badly" jesus christ u have no idea what ur talking about[QUOTE] NonY made a lot of critical mistakes, as he said himself. I think that's what they're referring to. At the end of the day though, Idra played better, even if they are both excellent players. | ||
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shiftY803
200 Posts
NonY just had a bad day. To be honest, I'm not sure he beats IdrA best of 5 on his best day. We are seeing from tournament results in Asia vs. Europe that Asia is quite strong. IdrA is one of the best players in Asia right now... you do the math. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
After the TSL 2 and the HDH, people should realize by now that NonY and IdrA are both highly skilled players and that any match between them can go either way. During the TSL 2, IdrA made more mistakes (including the famous command center cancel). During the HDH, NonY did. It's that simple. | ||
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
On May 19 2010 04:34 Azarkon wrote: I don't know why people are still arguing over this. NonY already provided the reasons for why he lost. He made mistakes. IdrA didn't. As Zelniq (a top US Zerg) said in the other thread: IdrA's play was "perfect." Anything less than "perfect" from NonY would not have sufficed. After the TSL 2 and the HDH, people should realize by now that NonY and IdrA are both highly skilled players and that any match between them can go either way. During the TSL 2, IdrA made more mistakes (including the famous command center cancel). During the HDH, NonY did. It's that simple. Be careful about comparing their skill in SC2 to that in BW. Nony has been talking about how he has a hard time finding time to practice SC2 while Idra probably is in the best possible position to practice. The same could be said about BW to a certain degree but Nony had a ton of practice with BW that he hasn't had with SC2. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
The armies Nony was making if microed the way we're used to seeing him micro would have fared quite well against Idra. As its already been discussed many times Idra played Zerg 'perfectly' or at least perfectly for what is considered the best Zerg play for SC2, Nony wasn't at his full strength for whatever reason and thats that. | ||
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Oddysay
Canada597 Posts
idra played pretty good and i cant judge nony from these game , but nony standar game style and gameplay are usualy better and we can say that was not the best he can do . you can pratice 100 game , only some percent of these game you will think that you played realy great , other time, standar and some game worst . but that the same for everyone , we never play at the best skill level everygame unless you are flash . on the other hand idra played realy good and each game was looking like he was the one playing and turning the game how he wanted the game to go , nony missed many time to turn the game from him but missed and at the end he loss them all. but if nony would have not missed the time to turn the game in is favor we would have see realy something else . starcraft are also a big mind game , read book and the art of the war or other great writing and you can literaly translate them in starcraft . you can become good in starcraft by reading book , yes  edit : added http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html the art of war by sun tzu for people who never read it . | ||
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