EPTTvT Cloak Banshee Rush - Page 2
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Origine
France167 Posts
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
btw in my replay my opponent made two thors, but too late, i had just 3 banshee that time and 100500 marines. | ||
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gedassan
Lithuania83 Posts
On May 14 2010 20:12 AeonFlux wrote: nono.. ghosts cant defeat banshees what are u speaking about ^^ Oo i can repair banshees with scv's and dont forget that i ll have marines too  Yeah... I cannot post a replay from work, but I have a feeling you are talking about much later in game. At what time (in minutes) do you get your first banshee? It would also be interesting to see your army composition at that time. | ||
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
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gedassan
Lithuania83 Posts
On May 14 2010 21:18 AeonFlux wrote: i get 2 banshee and 6 rines at 7th minute of reaplay time (3/4 of 7 = 5.25 real time). i get invis at 8:30 of replay time (6:15 real time). Excellent, I will search through my replays and find the two where I was countering the fast banshee. That will show what army I had by 7th minute of replay time. It's a bummer that I cannot see the timer when in-game (only available in replays). I would love to have it in game, so I could actually check the clock for timings... | ||
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ComTrav
United States1093 Posts
Good timings can help counter this. 7-8 minutes is about when most builds will have 2 Starports and cloak, so if you know when that lines up with the timing of your build, you just start saving scans. I've definitely been spanked by this before I realized the timings ("Surely, I can pop a MULE now!) If you're trying for any kind of tank push, you should try to be outside his base pushing by around then. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On May 14 2010 22:00 ComTrav wrote: Works better on certain maps--Desert Oasis, Scrap Station, etc. Steppes of War you're likely to die to early aggression. Good timings can help counter this. 7-8 minutes is about when most builds will have 2 Starports and cloak, so if you know when that lines up with the timing of your build, you just start saving scans. I've definitely been spanked by this before I realized the timings ("Surely, I can pop a MULE now!) If you're trying for any kind of tank push, you should try to be outside his base pushing by around then. better yet, if you're doing a tank push get 1 port with reactor and pump ~4 vikings, make a turret at the position you are holding when you push, and win. keep a turret and 1 viking in your base to defend. this macro is possible with rax fact port. | ||
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
 But this strategy has made me not puke when i see its TvT and i actually won quite a few with it today. I think i lost only one game, on incineration zone where my enemy got most his scvs killed but mined with mules and pushed with 2 tanks + marines + some vikings through the rocks in the backdoor and owned me with it | ||
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ThisIsJimmy
United States546 Posts
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
then we go to enemy base and if theres viking we go back, w8 cloack and come again. (we dont make clocck as OP recomended before banshee. we make it AFTER banshees. cas first two banshee will need to charge up some enegry cas other way their cloack time will be too low) NOTHING will help him. he can mass vikings but usually i kill most of his scv's. then u ll have about 30 scv vs 15 scv. just make mass rines and continue banshee harrass. your primary target are siege tanks (cas only they can stop your rines). make stimpack and combat shields and push. So bad. The reason that fast cloak works is b/c your opponent has very limited detect in the first 5-7 mins. What do you think he is going to do once he scouts your tech-labbed starport, sit on his ass? 3 turrets by minerals = gg as he has 25 SCVs while you have 15 b/c of your failed strategy. ghosts? rofl Kill rate: one Banshee will kill 1 Ghost(s) without dying (60 health left) ** Cost efficiency: for every Ghost you can get 1.3 Banshee(s) *** I know that your head is a bit dense, but surely you are not that stupid to figure out that EMP = no cloak, and that the ghost will not be soloing the banshee. ono.. ghosts cant defeat banshees what are u speaking about ^^ Oo i can repair banshees with scv's and dont forget that i ll have marines too It was spelled out to you in 5 paragraphs but you are too dumb to read, apparently. Cool deal at getting all those SCVs and marines into their base to support your fail banshee push. thor? what a useless unit btw in my replay my opponent made two thors, but too late, i had just 3 banshee that time and 100500 marines. Thor is a hard counter to banshees and will be supported by tanks / hellions, along with many more marines than you can make with your dinky 11 port economy. Back to the topic of this thread, fast cloak is indeed very powerful in TvT, particularly if you send your banshees in one-by-one to maximize cloak duration of the second and third banshees. It is tempting to send two banshees together as they one-shot SCVs, but both end up having to retreat and will run out of energy during the second attack. I like dropping a reactor on my rax once I have the 50 gas (cloak researching, banshee in production), and then swapping the tech lab port to the reactor after the third banshee while landing the factory on the tech lab. This is because more than 3 banshees is generally a waste in TvT once he gets vikings, ebay and/or thors out - you can immediately switch to the counter to his counter of your banshees (generally tank/viking) while macroing up to capitalize on your SCV advantage, which along with the early reactor will easily give you air control. You can always re-introduce cloaked banshees if you allow your opponent to recover enough to amass his own tank/viking army. | ||
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
AeonFlux, plz stop posting. You are easily the biggest idiot I have yet to see on these boards. ty.. i m alwayz pleased be top at smthng.. at least i m top in your list of idiots.. i m happy then So bad. The reason that fast cloak works is b/c your opponent has very limited detect in the first 5-7 mins. What do you think he is going to do once he scouts your tech-labbed starport, sit on his ass? 3 turrets by minerals = gg as he has 25 SCVs while you have 15 b/c of your failed strategy. I see u didnt watch my replay. 3 banshees kill turret very easily. i have non-stop scv production so i always have 30 and my opponent have 10-25 (depending on success of banshee harrass) I know that your head is a bit dense, but surely you are not that stupid to figure out that EMP = no cloak, and that the ghost will not be soloing the banshee. but mby your head is clever enogh to get that ghosts casts 50 gas more then banshee? ^^ so probably i ll have some units which will not be soloing your ghost Thor is a hard counter to banshees and will be supported by tanks / hellions, along with many more marines than you can make with your dinky 11 port economy. its not 11 port, i produce scv non-stop | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On May 14 2010 21:00 AeonFlux wrote: thor? what a useless unit btw in my replay my opponent made two thors, but too late, i had just 3 banshee that time and 100500 marines. Thor into raven > banshee openings. Of course, Thors aren't good on all maps. EDIT: At least they did in previous patches, I don't think the thor changes should influence this too much. | ||
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
cas 1 raven cant cover 2 sides. thats why to counter banshee u need two ravens and good anti air and its vikings or thor. BUT u cant get two ravens fast enogh. and good quanitity of thors and vikings. so u have much vikings/thors and no ravevs, or u have two ravens and not enought thor/vikings = u lose your workers anyway= u have even less vikings/thors 2 banshee = 60 sec build time (in game= 45 real time). 1 scv = 17.5 sec so u can get 3 scv when i get 2 banshee. so any time 2 banshee kill 4 or more scv u are losing your income. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
I'll happily trade a couple of SCVs for a banshee each time you decide you want to do a fly-by over a bunch of thors. | ||
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On May 15 2010 04:35 Floophead_III wrote: Ravens cost gas. Turrets cost minerals. I'd much rather spend 400 minerals to setup some intelligent turrets than 200 gas for a raven early on. I need that gas for tanks/research/thors/more factories/armory/starports. Raven makes sense IF you were planning on pushing out of your base soon after or you were already committed to air. Most cases I'm opening fact/armory and taking a fast expand because I don't like playing 1 base cheese builds, so thors are the way to go for me. Yep exactly, 1 fac thor -> cc -> engineering bay if needed (such as vs banshee), get raven when you want to push. And I don't get what kind of thor build Aeon is playing vs if he thinks he has 4 banshees by the time you have 1 thor (it's much closer to 1 banshee by the time the first thor arrives). Thor first TvT is really safe, even if you don't continue making mass thors. I'm not even saying fast banshee with cloak is bad, but it's annoying how you are talking about it like it auto-wins vs anything, which it just doesnt. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On May 15 2010 04:40 FrozenArbiter wrote: Yep exactly, 1 fac thor -> cc -> engineering bay if needed (such as vs banshee), get raven and rape. And I don't get what kind of thor build Aeon is playing vs if he thinks he has 4 banshees by the time you have 1 thor (it's much closer to 1 banshee by the time the first thor arrives). Thor first TvT is really safe, even if you don't continue making mass thors. I'm not even saying fast banshee with cloak is bad, but it's annoying how you are talking about it like it auto-wins vs anything, which it just doesnt. I usually go 2-4 marines, tank, thor, tank + siege + CC or so. I haven't really run up against any hard counters to that style of opening yet. I need to get a Euro account so I can better see how you guys play across the pool. Apparently you know what you're doing =P | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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