EPTZvZ Degenerate into Muta/Ling - Page 3
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On May 18 2010 09:28 denzelz wrote: In this banelings opening into hydras that you are talking about, when do you research speed for your lings? I always find that there's an awkward period of time between when my opp. gets speed because he was planning for it and when I get speed because it's reactionary for me. Do you use first 100 gas for speed and the next 50 for banelings nest, then Lair? I'm not dismissing your points, I think I could definitely use more banelings against Z but I was wondering the exact build and timing. You should get ling speed at your first 100 gas in every ZvZ (this is my opinion). In fact, you should have your opener based around getting gas -> Pool. So if you usually do 14 Pool in ZvZ, you should do 14 gas -> 13 or 14 Pool (though that's a bit late for some close maps, but you get the idea). If there is a significant time gap between you getting speed and your opponent getting speed, the first one to get speed should be able to win the game instantly if they are scouting aggressively. Speedlings allow you to a) Scout incredibly well. For (at most) 25 minerals, you can scout any point on the map whenever you like, in seconds. b) Threaten instant wins. If your opponent went lair -> ling speed, you should just build up a speedling force and kill him. If he built spinecrawlers, just expand and tech to lair with your second 100 gas as you normally would. If he is going muta, you will have hydra out in plenty of time to defend. If he is going hydra, you have nothing to fear and are potentially 2 full geysers ahead of him. c) Gain early map control. This is crucial for expanding at a good time. The only threat to this is if your opponent blindly teched to early banelings and you didn't scout it, but you should not run into this if you are playing good players. ------------------------- As for exact timing, it is extremely map dependent and position dependent. You should use your speedlings/initial ovies to scout the opponent as best you can. You should time your banelings so that they can be used for defense of your expansion or your ramp. So like on Lost Temple, I usually do Speed -> Lair -> Banelings (if the other guy also went speedlings and not Roaches or something strange). The banelings come up in time to get my expansion up (at this point I have a medium-ish speedling army out on the map, poking into my opponent's base for scouting/distraction). All it really takes is 2 banelings to defend any one thing. 2 banelings around a hatchery will defend it perfectly from any kind of attack. Similarly for ramps/chokes. Maybe 3 banelings on the Scrap Station ramp, but you can just as easily defend your mineral line with 2 banelings so I usually try to do that. Note that this is all "early on". If your opponent builds up a 40-50 speedling army, you will obviously require more banelings. If you're not sure if you have enough, just make 1 extra. Keep in mind that every 2 banelings you build sets you back 1 hydralisk (depending on your drone count, that is). Try to keep the banelings a) minimal and b) defensive. If you try to attack with banelings, there is a great deal of uncertainty, especially if the opponent has banelings. So put your banelings in a defensive spot where the engine AI assures they'll do maximum damage. Even when you attack with banelings behind your army, they should be defensive. So you run your army away (your army and banelings are on different hotkeys obviously) and leave your banelings there. They will auto-attack whatever you ran from, just be sure they stay in a good position. ------------------- Sorry I can't give really specific numbers. For every other matchup, I can give you a list of numbers and timings and junk, but ZvZ has become extremely dynamic with the Zergling/Baneling balancing early on. So giving you strict numbers would just be lying/misinforming. Basically, just go in the game with the idea that you want to do Speed -> Lair -> Banelings and use your speedlings to scout and determine whether or not it's gonna be reasonable. Also good to note: speedlings destroy any other opener, including roaches. If your opponent goes roaches, and you went gas -> Pool -> Speed, you can demolish him with your first or second larva inject or you can choose to safely expand if you're not confident in your ling push. To figure out how many lings you need against roaches, someone told me this awesome rule: imagine roaches are dragoons in BW. | ||
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BlueApex
63 Posts
marines medivacs that is all. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On May 18 2010 10:58 BlueApex wrote: ummmmmmmm marines medivacs that is all. Yes, brilliant ZvZ build... | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
You might insist your micro is compitent, but a compitent zerg will keep control of his blings and NEVER A move and NEVER detonate them unless 1. he managed to get in your drone line without you drilling away, or 2. if your ling mass momentarily grazes within range of the baneling (even if you mean to retreat and simply got too close on accident). You essentially have 0 defense against speedling while banelings are out. Sure you can send 2-3 ling at one baneling to try to kill it, but even if you do, that baneling can still make it pretty far with ling on its tail or better yet, just have the bling's ling brethren come deal with few lings attempting to snipe it. Since I'm currently 11-0 against zerg in top10 plat, I feel that this is a bit under-used. The only guy who stood a chance also went bling while trying to lair up but a momentary mis-micro cost him his ling mass. Whatever "safe" build you think you have going, it doesn't work against baneling openings if you don't have blings yourself. No, roaches won't come in time and get owned by plain speedling before their numbers get high enough. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
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