EPTI can play games where 2.5 Hydra's (one low on health, for those who don't get it) take on 4 Void Rays. VR's suck vs Hydra's no matter what.
Zerg vs mass void ray - Page 4
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
I can play games where 2.5 Hydra's (one low on health, for those who don't get it) take on 4 Void Rays. VR's suck vs Hydra's no matter what. | ||
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Yeld
Austria106 Posts
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Tidesson
55 Posts
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
The Void Rays beat them through sheer force of numbers, and none of them ever hit full charge. If you think VRs are overpowered because of the OP, you're a dumbass. | ||
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DeeD
Sweden88 Posts
- Micro/stall his zeals by kiting, remember that creep gives you a speed boost - Spore crawlers (more of them in case he decides to harass minerallines) - Attack or expand earlier, having 2 bases in this situation is simply not enough if he turtles - Spread creep with a queen/OL - Larva vomit more frequently - Focus on spending your resources instead of letting them build up for no purpose But most of all, micromicromicro. You gain no advantage whatsoever by just a-clicking with the army composition he has.. | ||
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Rising_Phoenix
United States370 Posts
My thoughts is as soon as you see or even think VR is coming, plop down an evo chamber, get hydra tech, and start getting pumping queens as a holder. IT will also allow you to macro better late game and spread creep faster, though I still dislike it because it makes your counter such a predictable liability any good P player can quickly switch tech and just cream you. | ||
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Vexx
United States462 Posts
On May 09 2010 00:14 University wrote: 2. notice timings and guess that Void Rays are coming out (early) 3. Completely alter build (unless you were planning fast hydra I guess..) and build correct tech 4. Micro hydras against Void Rays on ridiculous Blizzard Maps. It's not that Void Rays are imbalanced, they're just really not fun to play against because of the skill difference it takes to counter them. I have to be far better than my enemy in order to deal with VRs and at my level it is just awful and not fun. I think a lot of people are feeling the same way. For me, Void Rays completely force my hand, and if I am late by just a small timing they decimate my base. On some maps, Void Rays can snipe tech placed in the back of the base while out of range of marines and hydras, which is ridiculous. I think part of the problem is the maps, which have all this ridiculous space on the outsides, and the part of the problem is that they force the Zerg into a very predictable tech pattern. I'm not saying they're imbalanced, I'm just pitching some of the reasons they are really not fun for lower level players who don't quite have the APM to scout, macro, tech, and micro at 100%. I know that I need to just be better, and that if my play were tighter I could get an advantage out of knowing they're going Void Rays, but right now I just struggle a lot against this tactic, which I think is a common feeling among gold/silver players. This is it right here. Look no further. It is so easy to build a couple void rays without changing your main army while it is a pain in the ass to deal with them with no real solution besides altering your build to counter one stupid unit. It's not just low levels. Defending against void rays is as boring as it gets. "Wow! You noticed that blizzard downgraded zerg anti-air between sequels and buffed your air repertoire significantly? You're so clever for getting void rays." | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
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Vexx
United States462 Posts
On May 10 2010 02:05 Fruscainte wrote: Zerg has plenty of AA. I don't know why people think it's so bad, Hydra's do so great with the range upgrade and 1-1 upgrades; which you should be getting no matter what. I mean, this guy got 4 carriers and like, 7 hydra's held him off (I got replays too if necessary) The point is that getting GtA conflicts with expanding or any other plans you had. This leads to a very stale "safe" build for zerg against POSSIBLE air because you can't apply early pressure properly and tech while expanding. I love hydras. I think they are strong as hell. But I'm tired of being forced to get them. Terran does not need to alter their build to accommodate a void ray attack, neither does toss. | ||
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
edit: i played alot of toss nubs lastnight a guy in plat with 50 APM and went 2gate and transition into voidray , its like the ultimate counter to FE , first he pressure you so you cant "drone pump" and FE makes you get slower lair and then voidrays fuck you all over. i stopped FE for now :/ | ||
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mesobored123
United States62 Posts
Your economy sucked even if you were 2 bases to his 1 he still had better economy than you. You didn't have to pump those extra lings after that first zealot attack (lings generally suck vs zealots unless you surround and out number them) they could have been roachs (who are good against zealots) or drones (for better economy). He didn't even harass you with VR and you still had a bad economy. VR isn't your problem, your problem was your bad economy and you decision to attack. Oh and for half the game you didn't even use your natural hatch and it had 3 larva all the time. And the map was scrap station what did you expect? | ||
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chiss
Australia27 Posts
On May 08 2010 23:53 Tin_Foil wrote: Don't listen to matt.... I know this is going to sound unhelpful, but hydras are cost effective versus voidrays, so he probably just macroed better. Another thing is to catch the VRs while they don't have a charge. having charge up makes VRs about twice as good. Twice as good vs Non-Armored. A hell of a lot gooder against Armored! (5x Better) | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 09 2010 00:58 baconbits wrote: Void Rays are range 7 Hydralisks are range 6 with upgrade, voids still outrange. And hydras only work in an even engagement, aka, voids are not charged yet. If you expect to take out 8+ voids with hydras, when voids are fully charged, you're gonna lose your hydras. 8 fully charged voids will insta-gib 2 hydras every damage tick lol? If he's massing void rays and your massing hydra's you should easily have more hydra's then he has void rays... If he has had the time to make 8 void rays you should have had the time to make a lot more hydra's. | ||
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Phokus
United States31 Posts
1. once u hit lair tech the first thing u should ALWAYS get is the overlord speed. 2. sac overlords for scouting ( easy as pie for anyone ) no need for crazy apm. DONT BE STUPID AND SUPPLY BLOCK YOURSELF 3. if u see the early core drone HARD you will have SUCH the advantage if u stop the VRs. 4. get an early evo chamber up and be ready to drop spores 5. EXTRA queens are invaluable. just let 2 sit at your base AND expo (if u have one) and let them interchange spawn larv. this should give them PLENTY of mana to heal each other back and forth. by the time they can widdle either queen down the other 2 from your main/expo should be there. not to mention how much quicker they will be there if a nice creep highway between bases. the VR rush NEEDS to do lots of damage so u will see 1.. 2 at first. this right here is key u MUST beat the first couple and if u do, u win. i have no problems with OL scout into a few extra queens, stopping the attack, and pushing his one base over with mass roach. i FE in every MU. if u scout u are prepared. p.s usually (excluding good players) if they are VR rushing there will be minimal to no scouting on their end. so they will be playing in the dark. | ||
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lipebra
Brazil130 Posts
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Anxiety
United States650 Posts
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Meatloaf
Spain664 Posts
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
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puril
United States43 Posts
OP's micro on first battle was bad. you should not lose queen to a few zealots, and roaches can hit and run against zealots until you spawn enough to swarm them. I think in this case, you should have gone mutas rather than hydras. hydras are easy to push while you already have an advantage, but since you were already behind 5 mins in. the logical choice would have been mutas, try to keep him in his base, while u catch up in drone production, and try to make him over commit, while u tech switch to hydra. to summarize: 1. dont lose queen 2. work on roach micro vs. zealots (move stop move stop etc) 3. dont go hydras if you are so far behind. | ||
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Highwayman
United States181 Posts
1-basing is a poor response to all the cheese Terran/Protoss can throw at you because your income will most often be at a disadvantage (especially vs Terran) and you will probably lose to anybody good anyway. You'll feel safe and things will be less stressful and unpredictable, but you're just hindering yourself. One thing I've noticed is that just getting a hatchery down and not putting drones mining at it for a while so you can defend all of the BS is very advantageous because you can immediately saturate it and take a huge income lead at the precise moment you defend. Not only that but it gives you a better place to ramp up on spine crawlers in the face of a heavy early ground attack, and when you put a FE down there's some psychological trigger in almost every player's mind that says "attack now!" so you can use it as bait to bring them to your defensive advantage. Spine/spore crawlers are your friends vs this mentality. I would say just be careful about making too many spore crawlers without scouting a commitment to air, while you can be more liberal with spine crawlers because you can push the line further throughout the game. Getting an evo chamber down with your hydra den is reasonable because you'll want to get +1 ranged attack anyway, and you can make 1-2 spore crawlers along with a few hydras. It seems to me that skipping either one is probably a bad idea. | ||
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