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folke123
Sweden133 Posts
I went for a 14 pool 16 hatch. He got some early zlots and did some dmg. I managed to scout his double stargate and started making hydras. I then tried to move out but my hydras just died to his mass of void rays. Any tips on how I should beat this? or any other tips regarding my gameplay  replay: http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/4142 | ||
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matt09
United States21 Posts
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Tin_Foil
United States243 Posts
I know this is going to sound unhelpful, but hydras are cost effective versus voidrays, so he probably just macroed better. Another thing is to catch the VRs while they don't have a charge. having charge up makes VRs about twice as good. | ||
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Roqu
United States26 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 08 2010 23:55 Roqu wrote: after i lost 4 of 4 matches i stopped laddering as well. So your solution to mass void rays is... stop playing? Yeah that's going to deter people from using them. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On May 08 2010 23:49 matt09 wrote: a lot of people just like easy wins that take no skill by massing air units. its why i dont play ladder matches anymore 4 out 4 matches all of them massed air. It looks like we've found "that guy" folks. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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University
United States263 Posts
Void Rays: 1. build right buildings and make probes 2. build void rays, press C a few times 3. Micro void rays (not incredibly difficult) Countering Early Void Rays: 1. scout early and spot cyber core 2. notice timings and guess that Void Rays are coming out (early) 3. Completely alter build (unless you were planning fast hydra I guess..) and build correct tech 4. Micro hydras against Void Rays on ridiculous Blizzard Maps. It's not that Void Rays are imbalanced, they're just really not fun to play against because of the skill difference it takes to counter them. I have to be far better than my enemy in order to deal with VRs and at my level it is just awful and not fun. I think a lot of people are feeling the same way. For me, Void Rays completely force my hand, and if I am late by just a small timing they decimate my base. On some maps, Void Rays can snipe tech placed in the back of the base while out of range of marines and hydras, which is ridiculous. I think part of the problem is the maps, which have all this ridiculous space on the outsides, and the part of the problem is that they force the Zerg into a very predictable tech pattern. I'm not saying they're imbalanced, I'm just pitching some of the reasons they are really not fun for lower level players who don't quite have the APM to scout, macro, tech, and micro at 100%. I know that I need to just be better, and that if my play were tighter I could get an advantage out of knowing they're going Void Rays, but right now I just struggle a lot against this tactic, which I think is a common feeling among gold/silver players. | ||
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
On May 08 2010 23:49 matt09 wrote: a lot of people just like easy wins that take no skill by massing air units. its why i dont play ladder matches anymore 4 out 4 matches all of them massed air. Definitely Starcraft is not for someone like you then. Dont get me wrong Im not saying SC2 doesnt fit u just bcuz uve lost 4 games to mass VR but bcuz of the decision u took after losing those games. See, if u wanna get better then ull have to keep laddering and studying ur replays, then after a decent period of time ull not only be able to defeat that VR opening but also many other different BO's. You just stop laddering cuz ppl r using VR against u? LOL. People will find out another way to defeat Zergs early game, what will u do then? Quit Custom Games? then quit SC2? lmao. | ||
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
On May 08 2010 23:55 Roqu wrote: after i lost 4 of 4 matches i stopped laddering as well. LMAO this is hilarious. It really is. Ima take that as a joke cuz seriously I cant think about it as a real thing. What I do see is you losing the next 2 to 3 games and then quitting SC2. GL with that.  | ||
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Synk
United States297 Posts
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Piousflea
United States259 Posts
Mutas will also beat void rays and the VRs can't run away from mutas, but mutas come too late to help against a true VR rush. Always go hydras. Do NOT try to use corruptors against VRs. Corruptors don't get any bonus damage against VRs, VRs get bonus damage against corruptors, the corrs will get trashed. | ||
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ultfrisbee
Canada12 Posts
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Dekkis
1 Post
I also noticed you don't do the extractor trick, which this replay will show. http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/4155 Build Extractor at 13, transfer 3 drones to it when its done At 14 build Pool. While Pool is constructing build drones to 17. When Pool finishes send a drone to build a 2nd extractor and start a queen, then cancel the ext and send the drone back to work. Also build 2 sets of lings and immediately start roach warren. When the queen finishes you'll have enough gas to immediately upgrade to a Lair. Vomit on the hatch with the queen, then start making roaches as soon as you can. Typically ~5 roaches will hold a 2gate rush. Send out the lings to scout for the rush and try to use micro to pull the zealots further away, giving more time for your roaches to build. If theyre all in zealot rushing you can then push with your roaches and normally win. (I've come across alot of all-in zrush players in gold and silver) but if they're not: I use Mutas to counter voidrays preemptively. This strategy lets me build a spire very quickly once I've managed the zealots and then get mutas up and running. Its in this time after Ive countered the rush that I expand, typically favoring a rich mineral patch thats a bit further than my natural. As long as you get mutas faster than they get VRs you can do enough economy harass to keep them on the defensive (until they cannon themselves in -.-) but it will definitely give you enough time to recoop or at least throw off their fast VR strat. Also I agree with University, VRs take significantly less skill to get rolling than their counter strategies. I feel like every time I'm going against a toss player thats going air I need to be on my A game or I'll get shat out, where as the Toss player can just chillax and crank out more void rays. Its not that they're imba, because they can be countered by a formula, but they are definitely more effective than they are difficult to produce/control/execute. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On May 09 2010 00:36 ultfrisbee wrote: If he had a mass of void ray (anywhere more than 3), it was your fault if you lost. It means you didn't scout, harass or attack enough. This isn't true at all If he had more than 3 void rays it means that he wasn't stupid and actually kept them alive instead of just suiciding them. Void rays are more effective as their mass builds up, not less effective. You would know this if you watched streams, hopefully you actually have beta. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
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SadSatyr
United States77 Posts
On May 09 2010 00:14 University wrote: For me, Void Rays completely force my hand, and if I am late by just a small timing they decimate my base. On some maps, Void Rays can snipe tech placed in the back of the base while out of range of marines and hydras, which is ridiculous. I think part of the problem is the maps, which have all this ridiculous space on the outsides, and the part of the problem is that they force the Zerg into a very predictable tech pattern. This is actually the part that worries me. I have a hard time against VRs as well, but prior to the last patch I often went for fast muta to do some harassment and I was able to hold off the VRs about 50% of the time. Post this patch though I'm really concerned because early muta in low numbers isn't viable against toss anymore because of how badly the nix owns them. That means I have to go hydra to have any chance against VR so he can make 2 VR force me to go hydra, then switch to colossi and I'm in a world of hurt. ZvP used to be my best match up, since the patch I'm really afraid of it, lol. If anyone has any suggestions for how to deal with this that would be great. Sacking overlords to scout doesn't always work. They don't have speed by the time you have to decide what tech building to use, and a properly blocked choke will deny you the ability to scout them. Do we always mass hydra while playing in the dark now? | ||
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
On May 09 2010 00:31 Piousflea wrote: Hydras don't just beat void rays, they completely dominate them. Once they are range upgraded they have the same range as VRs, so microing the VRs does not help against hydras. Mutas will also beat void rays and the VRs can't run away from mutas, but mutas come too late to help against a true VR rush. Always go hydras. Do NOT try to use corruptors against VRs. Corruptors don't get any bonus damage against VRs, VRs get bonus damage against corruptors, the corrs will get trashed. Void Rays are range 7 Hydralisks are range 6 with upgrade, voids still outrange. And hydras only work in an even engagement, aka, voids are not charged yet. If you expect to take out 8+ voids with hydras, when voids are fully charged, you're gonna lose your hydras. 8 fully charged voids will insta-gib 2 hydras every damage tick | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
Go pure hydras and get infestors. Fungal growth will keep voidrays from running allowing your hydras to kill them. Don't be afraid to make a lot of spores too to defend new expos. It's very hard to defend 3+ bases with hydra alone, especially if you don't have creep highways. | ||
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
The most important thing about voidrays is that they need to be charged up. They are incredibly strong when charged against every unit, but abysmal when they are not. Abuse that fact, and kite them around to coerce them into loosing the charges. | ||
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