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It seems to me that Protoss options in the early game are extremely limited. I'm not even going to consider the tactic of proxy Gate, because it's no better than proxy Rax Reaper - and that's a strat that needs to die.
I went up against a Zerg who FE'd and defended with a trio of Spine Crawlers. This protected him against early Zealot, so I had to concede the expansion. However, what really won him the game - he stacked Hydras at his base but had a second control group of Speedlings sweeping the map (Metalopolis). When I tried to attack, his Speedlings would sweep from nowhere and Probe harass, forcing me to pull back to defend my own base. I scouted an expansion way out there, and sent a few token units to kill it. His Speedlings protected the expo. So I sent my army... he sent his Speedlings to hide (sacrificing the expo) but had his Hydras attack my base. By then my army was on the wrong side of the map. I lost the game because his map control was too strong for me to handle.
Another game, I went up against a Terran on Steppes of War - he proxy Reaper Bunker'd me in the Fog of War on the corner of my base, and when Reapers failed walked Bunkers toward my mineral line with Marauders. I killed his SCV, twice, but he kept sending more, and the long attack range of Marauders meant I couldn't snipe his bunkers or other structures. He won the fight because despite the all-in attack, first his Reapers and then his Marauders were able to score enough Probe kills to bring my economy down to his level, and one on one, his Marauders won.
I need help against these strategies. How do I punish a fast expanding Zerg who doubles up on defense, and how do I beat early-game Marauders? I scouted the proxy Rax, but my fastest Stalker build still allowed the Reaper to score 6 Probe kills. I reach a point where it's like, I know I'm taking hits, but I have to hit that magic 125 minerals to get another Stalker on it's way. Any ideas?
What kills me is I knew it was all coming - the fast expo, the proxy Rax, I scouted it all, but I couldn't stop it. I probably should have sent more Probes to kill the SCV, but the Reaper was already out. They were really tough games.
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as always posting replays helps alot ^^.
But from what you wrote. The FE zerg I would say you should try and punish it before its finished and doesnt have any spine crawlers. About the speedlings problems it seems to be about he having map control and using it. Try and snipe his scouts. Hard to say without replay..
For the terran. A good example how to fend it of is shown in the Razon Domination 3rd/4th match between Nazgul and Strelok. Game 1 and game 3 if I remember correctly.
+ Show Spoiler +He fails the first time (blistering sand) but its close and fends it of the second time (Incineration)
Part1: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6748474
Part2: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6749089
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Here are the replays:
[url blocked] (PvT Bunker Rush)
[url blocked] (PvZ Map Control Issue)
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On May 08 2010 18:57 Guran wrote:as always posting replays helps alot ^^. But from what you wrote. The FE zerg I would say you should try and punish it before its finished and doesnt have any spine crawlers. About the speedlings problems it seems to be about he having map control and using it. Try and snipe his scouts. Hard to say without replay.. For the terran. A good example how to fend it of is shown in the Razon Domination 3rd/4th match between Nazgul and Strelok. Game 1 and game 3 if I remember correctly. + Show Spoiler +He fails the first time (blistering sand) but its close and fends it of the second time (Incineration) Part1: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6748474Part2: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6749089
Interesting that you mention those games since nazgul ended up losing both of those early marauder rush games, even with his crazy good micro.
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I think Marauders have no business having as much health as they do. Bring them down to a Hydralisk's HP level and they should be fine. But right now they're as tough as 3 Marines.
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On May 08 2010 19:28 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 18:57 Guran wrote:as always posting replays helps alot ^^. But from what you wrote. The FE zerg I would say you should try and punish it before its finished and doesnt have any spine crawlers. About the speedlings problems it seems to be about he having map control and using it. Try and snipe his scouts. Hard to say without replay.. For the terran. A good example how to fend it of is shown in the Razon Domination 3rd/4th match between Nazgul and Strelok. Game 1 and game 3 if I remember correctly. + Show Spoiler +He fails the first time (blistering sand) but its close and fends it of the second time (Incineration) Part1: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6748474Part2: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6749089 Interesting that you mention those games since nazgul ended up losing both of those early marauder rush games, even with his crazy good micro.
Ah right thought he won the one on Inciration but was wrong. He does however fend of the early proxy marauder without taking any damage almost. I was very tired when I watched those games in my defence ^^.
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I don't play toss, but on the issue of your PvZ- maybe you could have teched to DTs and then harassed his expo? You wouldn't have to actually kill it, just make him get Overseers and spread his army. If you threw down some cannons at your base (to counter the lings) and he had his forces spread thin enough, you could punch into the natural, holding off reinforcements with force field. If that doesn't kill him, you can just get HTs (you're already close) to handle the hydras. Or you could copy his ling patrol strategy, just with DTs.
Or you can just go phoenix and supply cap him.
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EPT
