EPTPvT Ghost EMP - Page 7
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iCCup.riffe
Sweden23 Posts
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QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:02 Chill wrote: Fantastic post (no sarcasm). Would like to see more posters blaming themselves than the game. Stop changing the game and fucking take responsibility for your losses. Yeah but this is the beta, where balance is supposed to be worked out. There's no harm in discussing whether something is imbalanced or not. If SC1 players blamed themselves when they lost to 4pool cuz spawning pool was 150 minerals... yeah. | ||
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Conris
United States79 Posts
On May 04 2010 05:59 Corwin wrote: The problem is that you're conclusion is wrong. Feedback works against ghosts (although it is fairly micro intensive). It sounds to me like your trying to cast feedback from a HT that is clumped with the rest of your army. You should be keeping one or two HTs on your army's flank and you should periodically attempt to snipe ghosts with them. I'd be happy to provide more constructive feedback, but you haven't provided any replays demonstrating your problem. Also, the fact that HT are at a higher tech than ghosts is irrelevant. If the Terran has a ghost heavy army midgame, you can't push out against him. It's that simple. There are a ton of timings in which a Terran cannot push against a Protoss. The time between mass ghosts and Templar/Collosi tech is simply a timing in which Protoss can't push against a Terran. yea the templar positioning is tricky, but like i said, let's just say the templar is out and well, even if the FE does go off given that the templar doesn't get hit by the EMP, the EMP has already landed, hence defeating the purpose of the FE. the point is not to kill the ghost but to avoid the first EMP or the multiple EMPs that land, i understand the effectiveness of HT possibly killing the ghost even after the EMP, but the EMP is all the ghost is there for, so purpose served. i guess splitting sentries into 2 different control grounds will help, that i will be able to get those FF off, but then again...that's a lot of sentries, noted and will try. | ||
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HoroBoro
United States91 Posts
God I hate defending Terran. I wonder if the outcome of a battle can be decided by a few good psi storms in sc1? Or in sc2 a few good storms and templar feedback. Good spell placement wins battles period. That's what they're there to do. | ||
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Conris
United States79 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:07 DGMavn wrote: To all the P players who think spreading out your casters is "too hard" or "not practical": Do you have your entire army on one control group? My guess is yes. Get better at this game. my sentry zealot force at the beginning of nat expo is in 3 different control groups =) tyvm but i guess expanding that to 4 might do the trick, no sarcasm | ||
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Lafer
United States114 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:08 QuakerOats wrote: Yeah but this is the beta, where balance is supposed to be worked out. There's no harm in discussing whether something is imbalanced or not. If SC1 players blamed themselves when they lost to 4pool cuz spawning pool was 150 minerals... yeah. I get that it's a beta, and imbalances should be discussed. I'm not saying that EMP is perfect, I'm just saying that, from my experience with it, I lost that battle, not the fact that EMP is unbalanced. After I face a couple of more ghosts, if I'm spreading out my army, and I'm still losing, I might have to change my mind, but as of right now, it's ok, I just have to alter my gameplay and see what happens. | ||
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DGMavn
United States48 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:12 Conris wrote: my sentry zealot force at the beginning of nat expo is in 3 different control groups =) tyvm but i guess expanding that to 4 might do the trick, no sarcasm Post reps. | ||
Chill
Calgary25998 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:08 QuakerOats wrote: Yeah but this is the beta, where balance is supposed to be worked out. There's no harm in discussing whether something is imbalanced or not. If SC1 players blamed themselves when they lost to 4pool cuz spawning pool was 150 minerals... yeah. Read this thread. There's no proof of anything posted anywhere. There's pseudo mathematical discussions about cost and timing, and then there's 6 pages of people posting their feelings and experiences. It's a terrible discussion with nothing objective whatsoever. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
So that leaves 2 control groups for buildings and macro. Not saying EMP is imba, but the "moar control groups," can only go so far. Most players are going to need want at least some of their control groups for structure/macro. I think feedback should have equal range. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
Toss has the advantage of having observers to spot for feedback/storm. Terran has the advantage of a bigger margin of error if the EMP isn't perfectly placed since it will likely hit some other units as well. | ||
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Wargizmo
1237 Posts
According to Blizzard (see the Dev chat on the weekend) the stats for PvT are currently 54% - 46% in favour of the Protoss, if anything EMP should be buffed since it's the only way to imrpove TvP without adversely affecting TvZ which is almost perfectly balanced right now. | ||
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HoroBoro
United States91 Posts
On May 04 2010 07:33 Wargizmo wrote: According to Blizzard (see the Dev chat on the weekend) the stats for PvT are currently 54% - 46% in favour of the Protoss, if anything EMP should be buffed since it's the only way to imrpove TvP without adversely affecting TvZ which is almost perfectly balanced right now. 54%-46% is a 8% margin of error. It does not indicate either race being balanced or imbalanced as it does not even meet the 5% (largest threshold) test of statistical significance. Right now, they, as well as we, do not know which race is imbalanced. Alrite: back on topic - buff toss nerf terran gg no re k? | ||
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trevf
United States237 Posts
On May 04 2010 07:44 HoroBoro wrote: 54%-46% is a 8% margin of error. It does not indicate either race being balanced or imbalanced as it does not even meet the 5% (largest threshold) test of statistical significance. Right now, they, as well as we, do not know which race is imbalanced. ? /facepalm Let me translate for you, Horoboro. 54% of the time protoss win in pvt. 46% of the time terran win in pvt. This is not a sampled set of data so there is no margin of error. GG. This whole thread makes me puke. There are only so many logical fallacies a man can handle. This thread exceeded that in the first page. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On May 04 2010 07:44 HoroBoro wrote: 54%-46% is a 8% margin of error. It does not indicate either race being balanced or imbalanced as it does not even meet the 5% (largest threshold) test of statistical significance. You need to take a statistics course, because throwing out statistical terms incorrectly makes you look stupid. EMP is fine, Protoss already beats Terran a majority of the time. If EMP was nerfed at all, Terran would have absolutely no chance at all because without EMP Terran's ground forces just get absolutely demolished (air forces as well because of void rays). The fact that Terran basically has to use EMP as a crutch to even have a chance (and still lose most games) shows that T needs to be buffed, not nerfed. | ||
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MindRush
Romania916 Posts
Not that they don't kickass already. Always look at strong players when balancing things, not at weaklings | ||
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Conris
United States79 Posts
it's ok, finding a gem in a bunch of junk is time well spent. meaning, this thread has completely gone off topic, let it sink. | ||
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Dekoth
United States527 Posts
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
On May 04 2010 01:53 BurnMage wrote: I'll trade you EMP for storm and forcefield and immortal hardened shield then. deal? Okay, deal. Have fun dealing with just marauders. | ||
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gundream
United States229 Posts
On May 04 2010 01:52 MANquistador wrote: Don't clump you casters. Forcefield is already too strong, nerfing emp would take away the only thing terran can do to counter it. On May 04 2010 02:04 Chill wrote: Don't clump your units. Don't amass spellcasters if you know he's making units that specifically counter them. On May 04 2010 02:18 Craz wrote: So EMP is only good vs protoss, but psi storm can be used effectively vs all races. Therefore psi storm is like a jack of all trades, works vs everything sometimes really good, sometimes lackluster but nevertheless it works vs everything. Therefore EMP which is only good vs protoss has to be equal or better than psi storm. Guess what psi storm can still own a bio terran. How do I prevent it from owning me? I spread out. This is exactly what you should do vs emp. If you watch high level protoss you'll see them spread their army out vs emp. You can't just expect to clump 40 units together and A-Move and expect to win everytime, if you could MM vs lurker would have been a lot easier :D | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 01:54 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: You'll now hear variations on "spead your units out," and "FF needs a serious nerf," for the next few pages of replies. Enjoy. I know what you're thinking, and the answer is "yes," i will use my phrophetic powers for good and not evil. Also, another EMP thread has come full circle into ad-hominem and call for players to "stop qq'ing and play better," on both sides of the isle. Wether or not the topic is fair game for debate, this community clearly isn't ready to debate it in a civil or logical manner. The thread needs to be locked. It's all down-hill from here. | ||
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