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Terran vs Protoss - Page 15

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 15 2010 01:39 GMT
#281
Ghosts TvP are like HT in BW PvZ. You pretty much want to get them because they make your army really really strong, but they're definitely not autowin at all.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 01:44:35
April 15 2010 01:43 GMT
#282
I would rather have my old 45 hp ghosts but have them cost 75 gas again I think ;<

EDIT: I also miss lockdown Would be so awesome against colossus....... Of course, 75 mana EMP is pretty badass too.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
hellitsaboutme
Profile Joined March 2010
Singapore118 Posts
April 15 2010 01:44 GMT
#283
On April 15 2010 10:38 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
Can someone please explain why it's so hard to get ghost? All you need is a ghost academy which is immediately available after barracks. It's pretty cheap (only 50 gas) and ghost come with EMP. Yes, ghost cost 150 gas, but Protoss has to spend 100 gas per immortal and 100 gas per sentry, both of which are crucial. Furthermore, to detect cloaked ghost, Protoss needs to spend 100 gas on obs. I really don't quite see why it's so hard to get ghost... Yes, the factory is delayed, but as many people have already been whining saying, factory tech isn't that useful anyways that early.

Ghosts don't come with cloak anymore - it costs 150/150 and takes a long time -_- Ghosts aren't hard to get tho, they just don't "solve" anything. I mean, they are good - great even, but they aren't some "get it and you'll win!!" unit.


Protoss doesn't whine when they have to research psi-storm. You already got EMP, thats hella big reason to get at least 4-5 ghosts.

Why they don't solve anything? How are you supposed to shut down HTs? I think you just don't play right if you say so.

Not to mention u can nuke !
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
April 15 2010 01:45 GMT
#284
I mean that ghosts are not "the solution" - everyone gets ghosts already.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 15 2010 01:45 GMT
#285
I would rather have spider mines. =D

But really, terran right now gets hit with a timing push with immortals too soon for mech to be a safe opener. If it wasn't for that mech would be unreal strong. I just vaporized a 170 food toss army with ghostmech and I think I gained food from macro over the course of the fight, which was about 10 seconds. Bio can't do that.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 01:59:50
April 15 2010 01:53 GMT
#286
Yeah, with spider mines you would actually have a decent unit to spend your minerals on when meching. Unlike now.

EDIT: Another thing about meching TvP is that you have no good anti-air unless you make vikings, it's a bit annoying (yes, the thor is anti-air but he's only good vs light units).
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
April 15 2010 02:06 GMT
#287
Man I'm so happy someone else wants to bring lockdown back too! I totally mentioned that earlier haha.
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
April 15 2010 02:14 GMT
#288
On April 15 2010 10:22 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 09:56 Meta wrote:
I've been opening 2 port banshee every game, I honestly think it's the safest BO in this match-up. If you rush straight to them you'll have 2 out when their immortal push hits, and cloak will be almost done, which completely repels that strategy (which I've seen to be a favorite in the limitted games I've played).

From there, you go straight into harassment mode while getting more banshees 2 at a time as you see fit and throwing down an expo. By the time they've dealt with your harass it should be 2 base vs 2 base and you can go anywhere from there.

I like to throw down 4 more raxes and go bio since you already have the ports for medivacs.

I've been in games where the protoss gets all mad and calls it cheese but whatever, it works. Especially now that marauder FE is losing effectiveness.

Edit: Here's my banshee build:

10 depot
11 rax (wall your ramp, get marines as needed)
12 gas
15 OC
16 gas
17 depot
18 factory
23 depot
24 starport, starport
24 tech lab on rax and factory

From there you should have 400 gas for two banshees and cloak when the ports finish and you liftoff and switch.

Here's a game I just played (platinum level) that illustrates how powerful it can be.
http://bit.ly/bkd2rg

Banshees are actually better than you'd think against stalkers as well, they can hold their own in equal numbers.

Doesn't seem good if he's going stalker opening or fast void ray, or 4 warp gates (how do you hold that?). Seems good vs fast robo but fast robo is like the least scary P opening anyway :s

I use a similar build in pvt so I'll comment.

Void rays get stopped very easily; P will have a very weak push composition and you'll have 5-7 rines by the time the first one would arrive. Its a bit scarier if P gets 2 voidrays from a hidden proxy then pushes out, but generally you win if you have good rine micro to prevent the rays from going supersayain level 3 on your face. make 2 vikings out of your starports while your banshees are

A) defending your ramp vs a simultaneous push.
B) Shootin' probes if he hasn't moved out or expoed.

I'll let him comment on how he stops the 4 warpgate push, because my build times cloak to finish when i have 5 banshees, 1 raven and 2 vikings, so the early timings aren't the exact same.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 15 2010 02:15 GMT
#289
Lockdown on colossi would be so legit. I think snipe honestly can go away. It's too apm intensive to be worth anything. Bring back lockdown and we might see ghosts as a counter to BC in TvT too!
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
April 15 2010 02:19 GMT
#290
On April 15 2010 11:14 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 10:22 FrozenArbiter wrote:
On April 15 2010 09:56 Meta wrote:
I've been opening 2 port banshee every game, I honestly think it's the safest BO in this match-up. If you rush straight to them you'll have 2 out when their immortal push hits, and cloak will be almost done, which completely repels that strategy (which I've seen to be a favorite in the limitted games I've played).

From there, you go straight into harassment mode while getting more banshees 2 at a time as you see fit and throwing down an expo. By the time they've dealt with your harass it should be 2 base vs 2 base and you can go anywhere from there.

I like to throw down 4 more raxes and go bio since you already have the ports for medivacs.

I've been in games where the protoss gets all mad and calls it cheese but whatever, it works. Especially now that marauder FE is losing effectiveness.

Edit: Here's my banshee build:

10 depot
11 rax (wall your ramp, get marines as needed)
12 gas
15 OC
16 gas
17 depot
18 factory
23 depot
24 starport, starport
24 tech lab on rax and factory

From there you should have 400 gas for two banshees and cloak when the ports finish and you liftoff and switch.

Here's a game I just played (platinum level) that illustrates how powerful it can be.
http://bit.ly/bkd2rg

Banshees are actually better than you'd think against stalkers as well, they can hold their own in equal numbers.

Doesn't seem good if he's going stalker opening or fast void ray, or 4 warp gates (how do you hold that?). Seems good vs fast robo but fast robo is like the least scary P opening anyway :s

I use a similar build in pvt so I'll comment.

Void rays get stopped very easily; P will have a very weak push composition and you'll have 5-7 rines by the time the first one would arrive. Its a bit scarier if P gets 2 voidrays from a hidden proxy then pushes out, but generally you win if you have good rine micro to prevent the rays from going supersayain level 3 on your face. make 2 vikings out of your starports while your banshees are

A) defending your ramp vs a simultaneous push.
B) Shootin' probes if he hasn't moved out or expoed.

I'll let him comment on how he stops the 4 warpgate push, because my build times cloak to finish when i have 5 banshees, 1 raven and 2 vikings, so the early timings aren't the exact same.

Hm, that does sound like it could be midly annoying for P to deal with.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
DeMusliM
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom401 Posts
April 15 2010 02:26 GMT
#291
just tried this 4 rax fe thing against Socke twice (a german protoss if you don't know him already!)
and, i won the first game (he lost 3 stalkers trying to harrass my expo) meaning i didn't have to worry that much, then he directly headed to collosus/ht tech and i managed to win.

Though the 2nd game he didn't lose 3 stalkers, just expo'd and contained me with DT's while teching to HT/mass gateway units.

Although the strat seemed viable - if the protoss knows what he's doing it really does prove to be quite bad :S
Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
April 15 2010 02:27 GMT
#292
Homie De to the muslim what map was this on?
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
Hold-Lurker
Profile Joined October 2007
United States403 Posts
April 15 2010 02:35 GMT
#293
What was your transition? From 4 rax FE to bio ball or marine/tank/ghost? I imagine at some point you should have a timing window to run him over/break out of contain since you're up 2 bases to one.
WorkersOfTheWorld
Profile Joined April 2010
United States619 Posts
April 15 2010 02:37 GMT
#294
Another page and a half of replies and still no more replays?

Cool.
Samwise: You don't want to play Dustin [Browder]. He can't even beat the UI, let alone the AI. -
Prozen
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States338 Posts
April 15 2010 02:46 GMT
#295
On April 15 2010 11:26 DeMusliM wrote:
just tried this 4 rax fe thing against Socke twice (a german protoss if you don't know him already!)
and, i won the first game (he lost 3 stalkers trying to harrass my expo) meaning i didn't have to worry that much, then he directly headed to collosus/ht tech and i managed to win.

Though the 2nd game he didn't lose 3 stalkers, just expo'd and contained me with DT's while teching to HT/mass gateway units.

Although the strat seemed viable - if the protoss knows what he's doing it really does prove to be quite bad :S

I told you it was a pretty good strat. Though all of us Terrans do need to discuss the best transition after defending the Protoss's push.
To transcend beyond greatness, you must become greatness itself.
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
April 15 2010 03:16 GMT
#296
I've tried out this proxy reaper strat and that is pretty much the answer to protoss AND terran. With a reaper in the base at 2:45 with a bunker constructing next to mineral lines, this strat is practically unstoppable. I guess terran technically have the advantage vs toss after all, with something even more cheesey than the immortal push.

Hopefully it gets patched soon, though, among other things.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
Tiamat
Profile Joined February 2003
United States498 Posts
April 15 2010 03:53 GMT
#297
fuck it, I am making 3 planetary fortress at my choke and teching straight to air
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
April 15 2010 03:54 GMT
#298
On April 15 2010 12:16 shinosai wrote:
I've tried out this proxy reaper strat and that is pretty much the answer to protoss AND terran. With a reaper in the base at 2:45 with a bunker constructing next to mineral lines, this strat is practically unstoppable. I guess terran technically have the advantage vs toss after all, with something even more cheesey than the immortal push.

Hopefully it gets patched soon, though, among other things.

oh god. don't make that strat popular. I just faced it at least 3 times today. It's really really gay and extremely hard to stop. Protoss basically has to hope that the Terran is stupid and runs his reapers into Protoss's probes so they can snipe it.
silver_fox
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada243 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 03:56:04
April 15 2010 03:55 GMT
#299
whats the BO for quick reapers
Kyo Yuy
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1286 Posts
April 15 2010 04:10 GMT
#300
On April 15 2010 12:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 12:16 shinosai wrote:
I've tried out this proxy reaper strat and that is pretty much the answer to protoss AND terran. With a reaper in the base at 2:45 with a bunker constructing next to mineral lines, this strat is practically unstoppable. I guess terran technically have the advantage vs toss after all, with something even more cheesey than the immortal push.

Hopefully it gets patched soon, though, among other things.

oh god. don't make that strat popular. I just faced it at least 3 times today. It's really really gay and extremely hard to stop. Protoss basically has to hope that the Terran is stupid and runs his reapers into Protoss's probes so they can snipe it.

The biggest issue I'd have is a Terran player is that I hope they can make standard play viable while nerfing the reaper rush.

It seems that late game TvP heavily favors P, and while T had many abusive early game strategies they were mostly cheese that if failed would put the T behind for the remainder of the game.

I wouldn't want to rely on cheesing every game to win, but I still want a way TO win, so hopefully next patch Blizzard can address these issues and make it fair for both races.
#1 KawaiiRice fan :D
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