EPTTerran vs Protoss - Page 14
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Champi
1422 Posts
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hellitsaboutme
Singapore118 Posts
If Immortals are so freaking strong why not to use EMP and tank/thors? Why tier1 units has to fight everything? Thors/banshees/tanks do insane damage for their cost, just couple it with emp vs Immortals. If you are not able to do that then don't play terran. Jinro is saying that he doesn't know what to do. Of course he doesn't. In last replay he was massing pure Thors and didn't bother to research cloak and emp HTs. It is not a-move game, play more creative. If you go by unit parameters, terrans are the strongest race. Just learn how to use that advantage. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:41 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: Jesus christ people. Start posting banshee replays or shut the hell up about how ineffective it is. We don't need more "oh that can't possibly work," in this thread with no replay accompanying it. Stop bickering and start posting with substance. And if someone tells me to straight tech to battle cruisers do I need to post a replay for that too in order to say that it's vulnerable to rush? | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:42 shinosai wrote: And if someone tells me to straight tech to battle cruisers do I need to post a replay for that too in order to say that it's vulnerable to rush? Because clearly BC's are comparable to banshees. Not like someone has already come up with a creative way to make a hella-fast banshee a long time ago or anything. Yes, the burden of proof is on you. You've claimed to have "tried everything," now it's time to prove it and stop re-iterating the tired "can't do anything," stuff with nothing to go on but your word. | ||
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hellitsaboutme
Singapore118 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:42 shinosai wrote: And if someone tells me to straight tech to battle cruisers do I need to post a replay for that too in order to say that it's vulnerable to rush? Check last game of Naruto vs Mana. It shows how to use banshees+MM one base. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:42 shinosai wrote: And if someone tells me to straight tech to battle cruisers do I need to post a replay for that too in order to say that it's vulnerable to rush? Well the difference is that people (like me) have mathcrafted and theorycrafted ways for how a banshee rush could work. What I would like to see is a banshee rush that is not simply a 2-3 rax transition from MM to 2port banshees. If it still clearly doesn't work then fine. I'll shut up about banshee rushing and move on to the next possible strat or admit defeat. I would gladly test it but I'm no Terran player and will probably get all the timings wrong. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:45 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: Because clearly BC's are comparable to banshees. Not like someone has already come up with a creative way to make a hella-fast banshee a long time ago or anything. Yes, the burden of proof is on you. You've claimed to have "tried everything," now it's time to prove it and stop re-iterating the tired "can't do anything," stuff with nothing to go on but your word. I think you're quoting someone else. | ||
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Mente
United States288 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:42 hellitsaboutme wrote: Clearly terrans are bitching and not trying anything other than maradeurs. If Immortals are so freaking strong why not to use EMP and tank/thors? Why tier1 units has to fight everything? Thors/banshees/tanks do insane damage for their cost, just couple it with emp vs Immortals. If you are not able to do that then don't play terran. Jinro is saying that he doesn't know what to do. Of course he doesn't. In last replay he was massing pure Thors and didn't bother to research cloak and emp HTs. It is not a-move game, play more creative. If you go by unit parameters, terrans are the strongest race. Just learn how to use that advantage. Nope getting owned by a lot of stuff and I try not to mass marauders. | ||
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Meta
United States6228 Posts
From there, you go straight into harassment mode while getting more banshees 2 at a time as you see fit and throwing down an expo. By the time they've dealt with your harass it should be 2 base vs 2 base and you can go anywhere from there. I like to throw down 4 more raxes and go bio since you already have the ports for medivacs. I've been in games where the protoss gets all mad and calls it cheese but whatever, it works. Especially now that marauder FE is losing effectiveness. Edit: Here's my banshee build: 10 depot 11 rax (wall your ramp, get marines as needed) 12 gas 15 OC 16 gas 17 depot 18 factory 23 depot 24 starport, starport 24 tech lab on rax and factory From there you should have 400 gas for two banshees and cloak when the ports finish and you liftoff and switch. Here's a game I just played (platinum level) that illustrates how powerful it can be. http://bit.ly/bkd2rg Banshees are actually better than you'd think against stalkers as well, they can hold their own in equal numbers. | ||
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sikatrix
Canada172 Posts
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
And the cop-out comes again. Good to see the terran here try so hard to prove their point. Sorry guys, but as we've continued to say, if you have tried "everything" or "lots of stuff," then start posting the shit you tried. There is absolutely no point in these retarted phantom debates with no substance. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:57 sikatrix wrote: lol, it's sickening reading the amount of newbs trying to tell some of the best players in the world how to play. Also if your playing toss and you let your opponent "mass" banshee, you are playing terribly wrong. Right. 'cause it's so easy to stop a Terran from massing air when all of your anti-air options (ie stalkers, don't even try to mention stargate units as viable in the current state of PvT) get buttraped by marines and marauders. Furthermore, all of your robo tech pushing options (immortals and colossi) get butt raped by Terran air. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On April 15 2010 10:01 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: And the cop-out comes again. Good to see the terran here try so hard to prove their point. Sorry guys, but as we've continued to say, if you have tried "everything" or "lots of stuff," then start posting the shit you tried. There is absolutely no point in these retarted phantom debates with no substance. What copout? You are quoting someone else you fucking moron. I didn't say I have tried "everything" or "lots of stuff." Would you get a god damn pulse? The only thing I am arguing right now is that straight tech to banshee is not safe, and your piece of shit build isn't good. There are plenty of builds out there that do work, and while they may not be particularly effective vs toss, since we are after all arguing that ran is at a disadvantage here, at least they aren't a piece of shit build that will get you killed 3 minutes into the game. Now use your fucking brain for two seconds and suggest a build, and I'll gladly try it out. I tried out pfrozens build. But you're asking me to show the burden of proof that straight teching to tier 3 ISN'T RISKY? It's not even worth arguing with you toss players, anyways. You suggest these terrible, awful strategies, then tell us we have to use them in order to prove that they suck balls. How about YOU use them and I'll beat the shit out of you with toss? | ||
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Mente
United States288 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
a dropship with 4 maraudors, 1 banshee and 1 raven with pdd can do serious damage to the protoss econ, and it doesn't come out that late if you do the right bo. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On April 15 2010 10:16 EleanorRIgby wrote: Point Defence Drone! i have been using this in my plays recently and its working great i have no complaints about tvp anymore after i started trying new builds and incorporating pdd, although the 1 base warpgate rushes are still very deadly. a dropship with 4 maraudors, 1 banshee and 1 raven with pdd can do serious damage to the protoss econ, and it doesn't come out that late if you do the right bo. PDD is definitely the ravens best ability. It's pretty nice once you get it, makes banshees almost invincible. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 15 2010 09:56 Meta wrote: I've been opening 2 port banshee every game, I honestly think it's the safest BO in this match-up. If you rush straight to them you'll have 2 out when their immortal push hits, and cloak will be almost done, which completely repels that strategy (which I've seen to be a favorite in the limitted games I've played). From there, you go straight into harassment mode while getting more banshees 2 at a time as you see fit and throwing down an expo. By the time they've dealt with your harass it should be 2 base vs 2 base and you can go anywhere from there. I like to throw down 4 more raxes and go bio since you already have the ports for medivacs. I've been in games where the protoss gets all mad and calls it cheese but whatever, it works. Especially now that marauder FE is losing effectiveness. Edit: Here's my banshee build: 10 depot 11 rax (wall your ramp, get marines as needed) 12 gas 15 OC 16 gas 17 depot 18 factory 23 depot 24 starport, starport 24 tech lab on rax and factory From there you should have 400 gas for two banshees and cloak when the ports finish and you liftoff and switch. Here's a game I just played (platinum level) that illustrates how powerful it can be. http://bit.ly/bkd2rg Banshees are actually better than you'd think against stalkers as well, they can hold their own in equal numbers. Doesn't seem good if he's going stalker opening or fast void ray, or 4 warp gates (how do you hold that?). Seems good vs fast robo but fast robo is like the least scary P opening anyway :s On April 15 2010 10:16 EleanorRIgby wrote: Point Defence Drone! i have been using this in my plays recently and its working great i have no complaints about tvp anymore after i started trying new builds and incorporating pdd, although the 1 base warpgate rushes are still very deadly. a dropship with 4 maraudors, 1 banshee and 1 raven with pdd can do serious damage to the protoss econ, and it doesn't come out that late if you do the right bo. I don't see how this helps too much - it doesn't block colossi or immortals, it helps a lot vs stalkers of course, but stalkers aren't a huge issue. It's also vulnerable to feedback... like most useful terran units. On April 15 2010 09:42 hellitsaboutme wrote: Clearly terrans are bitching and not trying anything other than maradeurs. If Immortals are so freaking strong why not to use EMP and tank/thors? Why tier1 units has to fight everything? Thors/banshees/tanks do insane damage for their cost, just couple it with emp vs Immortals. If you are not able to do that then don't play terran. Jinro is saying that he doesn't know what to do. Of course he doesn't. In last replay he was massing pure Thors and didn't bother to research cloak and emp HTs. It is not a-move game, play more creative. If you go by unit parameters, terrans are the strongest race. Just learn how to use that advantage. Uhhh, first of all, I have mass marauders ONCE since patch 8. Second, I had thor/hellion/ghost/banshee. I won't claim it was the best microed game ever but ffs. I had no chance to emp the fucking HTs because they were way behind his army and I had already emp:ed all his immortals. You realize feedback has longer range than emp, that you don't have enough gas to get cloaked banshees+thors+cloaked ghosts until you have a 3rd expo (which I didnt) and that he had observers =[? "Straight a move" Lol. I've won lots of games doing exactly what you said, but when P already has a bunch of void rays like hasuobs did, banshees become WAAAAAY less good =/ + Feedback basically rapes thors, rapes ghosts, rapes banshees. I'm not even saying the matchup is necessarily imbalanced (I don't know yet), but what you are saying is just wrong in many instances. | ||
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2SCV1cup
69 Posts
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sikatrix
Canada172 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Can someone please explain why it's so hard to get ghost? All you need is a ghost academy which is immediately available after barracks. It's pretty cheap (only 50 gas) and ghost come with EMP. Yes, ghost cost 150 gas, but Protoss has to spend 100 gas per immortal and 100 gas per sentry, both of which are crucial. Furthermore, to detect cloaked ghost, Protoss needs to spend 100 gas on obs. I really don't quite see why it's so hard to get ghost... Yes, the factory is delayed, but as many people have already been whining saying, factory tech isn't that useful anyways that early. Ghosts don't come with cloak anymore - it costs 150/150 and takes a long time -_- Ghosts aren't hard to get tho, they just don't "solve" anything. I mean, they are good - great even, but they aren't some "get it and you'll win!!" unit. Wow, terrans have to play straight up and "real" for once?? Thats surprising, usually Terrans just abuse their way to wins. Protoss has had to play "real" and "straight up" since the first of beta. I present exhibit A: super fast warp gates. In patches past, these were frequently used to warp-in push so quickly that you couldn't do ANY 1 rax build or you just died. | ||
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