Are you Zerg player? Are you frustrated by the recent nerfs and just want some easy wins but your 6 pools keep failing? Worry not! Zerg has a new cheese and its more powerful than ever: The Proxy Hatch!
I was really bored, and a bit frustrated with ZvP so I figured I'd blow off some steam by just fooling around for a few ladder games. I decided to proxy hatch without any kind of real game plan, but wow, if you can get away with it, there are so many options! Between, larva inject, creep tumors and most importantly: transfusion; Proxy hatch owns way harder than I anticipated. Like any cheese its far from a sure thing, but its definitely good for a laugh.
[Disclaimer: this isn't really intended to be a serious strategy, just something I was messing around with that I thought you guys might enjoy, cheers!]
I don't see how this will work, but ill watch the replays and report back....im curious
EDIT: It seems like it is really easy to defend against, but i don;t think they handled the proxy hatch very well; BUT maybe thats the beauty of the cheese. Im willing to give it a shot, thnx for sharing!
lol u did this to me and i was so confused, i scouted the entire map for a hatchery before realizing it was IN MY FUCKING BASE. seemed pretty weak though, i held it off pretty easily.
On April 10 2010 14:24 Rice wrote: what league are you playing in...?
Platinum
impressive, I havent watched the replays yet but it seems hard to pull off due to how long spines take to build.. Ill watch the replays tomorrow though, keep up the good work!
Just watched the ZvT, and I have to say, it worked out better than I thought it would lol. that terran was quite noob, instead of salvaging his bunker that was taking hits from your spine crawler he took off all his svcs to repair it xD Really funny cheese though I like it
goat/rope uses this every now and then ^^ it seems to weed out the good from the bad: bad ones either don't see it at all or leave their wall entirely to fight it - lings waltz right in. good players left e.g. 2 zealots at the choke. although i wonder what 2-4 banelings would've done...
€: or you could build everything right there as you did o.O
I saw I think khb do this on blistering sands I think before even the first patch came out against a p. I couldn't believe toss didn't scout it, it was right outside the ramp of his main.
On April 10 2010 17:32 faction123 wrote: if you lose to proxy hatch, you'd lose to proxy gates/rax/cannons built in the same spot
just like any in base proxy it will work against people being lax on scouting their own goddamn main
Actually it's harder to play against proxy hatch than play against proxy cannon unless u know the zerg timing decently well. because zerg can 13 hatch then 14 pool and it looks sorta like a late pool, while proxy cannon u'll see a forge in the toss's otherwise empty base.
On April 10 2010 17:32 faction123 wrote: if you lose to proxy hatch, you'd lose to proxy gates/rax/cannons built in the same spot
just like any in base proxy it will work against people being lax on scouting their own goddamn main
Actually it's harder to play against proxy hatch than play against proxy cannon unless u know the zerg timing decently well. because zerg can 13 hatch then 14 pool and it looks sorta like a late pool, while proxy cannon u'll see a forge in the toss's otherwise empty base.
The other misleading thing is that, if you scout the late pool you are most likely going to assume he built a hatch at the gold mineral patch or some other hidden expansion instead of in your base.
Haha, thanks for thread. Made me check my base when I saw a drone coming to me with my probe, but had no drone scout in base. Didn't usually think of Zerg as a race to watch out for in-base proxies until this.
I just tried this twice and it worked both times extremely well. Granted, one of them was against a FEing protoss, but still very hilarious and fun lol
That was pretty cool. I got so frustrated watching him wall off his robo and then blaming a "bug" for causing his colossus to stop at 100%. I knew right when he finished walling it off that it wasn't going to finish. Tip to protosses out there: don't wall off your production structures! (you had the win long before that though anyway)
REALLY, REALLY GOOD on steppes of war vs terran. take your 7th drone and by the time it gets to his base he wont be walling in yet, so go to the right and be solid snake about it. heres the cool part, take another drone at 10 and scout with it so he has no reason to scout his main for the hatch. only high level gold so might not work on plat.
Haha you did this to me (third screenshot and one of the replays.) I remember thinking I saw an early scouting drone but it didn't click in my head for some reason. I had no idea spine crawlers outranged bunkers like that I probably should have just pulled most of my scv's and killed your hatchery as soon as I saw your creep instead of starting a bunker.. Imo it's pretty hard to deal with if you've never seen it before :o
Also I just assumed you were going for a gold expansion, and I remember thinking that maybe you scouted early so that you could go for the gold expo further away from me or something...
I was pretty pissed, I'm glad i just said gg since you posted the replay and all :p
I've been trying this kind of cheese for several days in the practice mode but my conclusion was it was hard to cheese like that with zerg. But I'm just in silver so I'd be happy to hear your thoughts about my build.
On Steppes of Warff I send my Overlord to his base, I do 8 assimilator, then put 1 drone in, then 8 pool, then put 2 more drones in the assimilator, then I have enough gas, money and the pool is done, all 3 at the same time so I make a Lair. And then I make creep from the overlord and from drones I've sent in his base I start making Spine crawlers and move the creep and make them advance. I make zerglings too.
The advantage with that is it kind of looks like an actual build. But I don't have experience with Starcraft and like other cheeses I tried many players are quick to counter it. So I'll definitely try the proxy hatch, but can anyone give me his opinion on my build and about the amount of cheese it has compared to the OP one.
Just wanted to say thanks to the OP for this brilliant cheese. In custom games so far I've won 12 times and lost 1. Sure many were copper/bronze/silver but about 4 were gold and 2 plat (one of them actually #1 plat, although in a relatively new divsion with 1300 points.)
this brilliant tactic works agaisnt any divison if they hvnt spotted your hatch untill it spawns. also very good as some1 stated to bring out another 10th drone to "scout" and harass him so he willnt bother abotu checking other locations.
hovewer i must say that while using i lost several times vs other really wierd tatics
-vs 1gate dumb zeal rush (he puttd gateway under ramp on lt but i actually hvnt checked buliding = thought he were obv fast expand but he hyperboosted his zeals and went stright for m ybase with 2 zeals. i didnt know that, and he actually didnt knew he had my hatch on his main, but i was lack of minerals to surive that (1 cannon) -vs wierd bunker+reaper rush to my main. i managed to surive, but due of lack of resources and reapers at his base (he didnt proxied)) he killed my other hatch/building canons and got crushed my main with banshees.
all these tactics very not common and they actually didnt noticed my rush so its just "unlucky" ones.
the main thing is not only pump drones/queen/zerlings from your secodn hatch, but also constantly pump lings from your main so he have to deal with 2 defending points (lings to mienrals + lings near entarance) AND sunkens.
Lol I used to do that in BW for lulz... Surprisingly, even ~C level opponents fell for that... (Not as often as D+ and below tho)
Anywhooo, I've been thinking about doing that too but always forgot! xD Maybe you and I should 2v2 and proxy hatch every game! rofl
I do believe it's pretty hard to beat if u didn't scout it in time... Spine Crawlers can relocate as creep expands, so zerg wastes less resources and can actually have ALL of them doing damage where it matters rather than having 1-2 defending the hatch and then 2 more attacking... leapfrog their ass and lolol at your opponent! If terran decides to fly away to an expo, you can just stalk him! Creep Tumors are your friends! ^^
KHB did this back in the first week of beta. I've been doing different variations of it since. It works great on Blistering Sands/Desert Oasis(Behind the mineral line, use a ovy for version and let your spine crawlers rape the min line). I've done it on scrap station as well.
It works good vs terran wall in and toss 1 gate cyber core, as they are pretty screwed when they lose their 1 gate way at the choke.
interesting i havnt tried this yet in SC2. I used to do it in SC1 every now and then and have people rage quit against me (assuming they didn't stop it). In SC1 I would do 2 hatch fast lurker except the 2nd hatch was an in-base proxy and of course most of their static defense was usually at their natural so i come out with lurkers and if they have no detection, I would usually win.
Some guy did a build like this against me but he just put a hatch at my nat O_O Was really tought to beat I had to fast tech tanks or I would have had basically no chance against creep + spine crawlers.
I like bringing drones when I nydus work to sunken push too... And can we call spine crawlers sunkens??? I mean, they aren't even a spine? They look like pointy earthworms.
XD lol new cheese, been doing this since broodwar! XD hahaha
I still do it situationally, and in many cases i can take games from top platinum players, but it is ONLY a situational build, as it is easily scouted by almost anything other than proxy buildings or fast exp P
On April 14 2010 23:57 muzzy wrote: I've only tried this once, against a 20something plat terran player and took him out.
Quite funny, but definitely the epitome of cheese. I even apologized at the end of the game... the guy was cool with it and still gave me a "GG".
I'll probably save this cheese for games amongst friends, as it'll be more surprising and satisfying that way
The epitome of cheese IMO is flying a CC over and making a PF out of it. It takes less than 5 minutes and if it fails, you just lost everything whereas if the proxy hatch fails, you still have your main.
I did it to my brother they other day and I could hear him screaming F*****G GAY!!!! in the other room.
the build is operational even if you do get scouted
* send one of initial drones to his base - keep pumping drones at main. you need the earliest drone since many players open up with pylon/supply at ramp by the time the late drone arrives, and will see your drone coming * if you are scouted, place the hatch right next to his nexus/command. don't forget to build pool at main, and keep watch on your supply * options: a) opponent attacks this hatch with SCVs/probes. cancel right before he kills it, maneuver and place again at same spot. this is actually a good one, since he's not mining; but you have to keep this drone alive b) opponent says "OK" and goes for zealots/marines. this means you get to finish the hatch - and immediately go for a queen and lings or drones c) opponent goes for photon cannon or bunker, placing them close enough to reach your hatch with their range. you also get to finish the hatch - also go for queen and lings/drones * you also should have lings coming from your main during the above events
things depend on your micro here, and good decisions about "lings or spines". I only see sense in putting spines if you're not scouted or have queen/lings to fend early marines/zeals off till spine finishes
================================================== on a second thought: "never post a cheese without the solution" the ultimate solution for the opponent is: once you see the drone come to your base, set one of your probes/SCVs to attack it. they will run close together and the drone will have a hard time placing the hatch
On April 13 2010 16:51 mOnion wrote: I wish I could play in leagues where no one scouted main so I could have as much fun as everyone else in this thread
Questionable choices by my opponent (and myself, first time I successfully pull this off), but thats understandable when you realise you just walled yourself in with the zerg player. xD
The more I think about it the more I think this could become a really powerful cheese on some maps (haven't decided which ones yet) for ZvT. No need for some crazy spine crawler/queen play nether.
Thing is if he attack the hatch with his first marine, you can attack the depot wall with your main's zergling, breaking in. If he dosn't scout the hatch or simply decides to keep the marine near the depots to protect against the zerglings, you can make some zerglings with the proxy hatch to take down the marine and then attacking the depots from both sides. Ether way if the wall fall you're probably way ahead.
Hell, even if he scout the proxy hatch and pulls scvs to destroy it you can just cancel it and he lost alot of minning time. If he just puts a scv to follow your worker then you're not really behind nether.
well im getting tired of only being able to beat terran with baneling busts so im gonna try this. I still havn't found any standard build orders against terran with zerg yet.
My 2v2 partner and I got double hit by this last night. We held it off and managed to wipe up the opposition in short order since this is such a complete all-in.
But the underlying problem is that we're idiots and didn't scout.
On April 16 2010 01:15 Durnic wrote: My 2v2 partner and I got double hit by this last night. We held it off and managed to wipe up the opposition in short order since this is such a complete all-in.
Not at all, I play it something like 14 hatch/13 pool, my drone count is fine.
Tried this on a customs, didnt want to mess up my rank with such a cheesy all-in
It was quite hilarious, but i found that he would get some marines / a few zealots out before i could even get a queen at the proxy hatch..
well im getting tired of only being able to beat terran with baneling busts so im gonna try this. I still havn't found any standard build orders against terran with zerg yet.
Amen to that. I cant ever win unless i baneling bust early, but i've tried it where they already had a bunker up (even without scouting) behind the supplies, so i had to make 6 more banelings and by the time i did, he had a tank up the hill with seige mode somehow....
If anyone can please tell me a working lategame strat vs terran (other than burrowing banelings vs MMM hoping they dont reveal, and blasting em to bits) Please tell me. Especially against mech build, where he expos everywhere with seige tanks and thors and hellions (takes down any army composition i can make, except ultralisks which are too late-game)
With the reset coming up I am so god damned trying this! it and mass queen/spine crawler push (followed with broodlords cause you didn't spend any of your gas...)
Questionable choices by my opponent (and myself, first time I successfully pull this off), but thats understandable when you realise you just walled yourself in with the zerg player. xD
I decided to do a commentary on this one. I liked it. =)
just had a pretty close game doing this against a protoss on LT. We both killed eachothers main, he had proxy cannons and a group of zeals, but i still had my prox hatchery i could mine from and a lot of spine crawlers. lol, you cant collect minerals with cannons bucko!
On April 16 2010 12:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: can't believe how poorly executed this proxy hatch was and how poorly the terran scouted,built his wall, and teched. How are you guys platinum?
Because its the first time I executed it (I'm Ilickroaches) and was pretty much free-styling it? Also being platinum means nothing. I suck at starcraft, never even played the first or any other rts, and I got to 1400 elo platinum in like a month...
Josh : Amazing commentary, loved it! Tyvm for doing it ^^
On April 16 2010 12:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: can't believe how poorly executed this proxy hatch was and how poorly the terran scouted,built his wall, and teched. How are you guys platinum?
Because its the first time I executed it (I'm Ilickroaches) and was pretty much free-styling it? Also being platinum means nothing. I suck at starcraft, never even played the first or any other rts, and I got to 1400 elo platinum in like a month...
Josh : Amazing commentary, loved it! Tyvm for doing it ^^
thanks for making this thread. some zerg tried to proxy hatch me yesterday and ran his drone right by my pylon at my ramp so I was able to scout and stop it easily. Easiest win in a month!
On April 16 2010 12:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: can't believe how poorly executed this proxy hatch was and how poorly the terran scouted,built his wall, and teched. How are you guys platinum?
I love how people say bs like this all the time. You know pros lose to cheeses all the time as well right? would you say they scout poorly in all these games?
Lol, did it against a toss player who was beginning to choke off his nat, sneaked a drone in and build the proxy in his base, whilst faking small ling attacks on his nat, he kept all of his forces by his natural... Next thing he knows there is a queen, 3 spine crawlers and 30 slings in his main :D Its quite efficient if the player doesnt scout, works on maps where the main is rather large such as shakuras plateau.
Not going to work on diamond league, or the good platinum leagues. It easy to defend, spine crawlers will easily be spotted though. Also leaves you very vulnerable
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.w6qx.com/sc2replays/Screenshot007.Jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.w6qx.com/sc2replays/Screenshot.Jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.w6qx.com/sc2replays/Screenshot000.Jpg)
I probably should have just pulled most of my scv's and killed your hatchery as soon as I saw your creep instead of starting a bunker.. Imo it's pretty hard to deal with if you've never seen it before :o
![[image loading]](http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x302/fantuspk/proxy.jpg)
