EPT[H] Holding off Super Fast Reaper? - Page 27
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Hold-Lurker
United States403 Posts
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ploy
United States416 Posts
On April 30 2010 08:29 j4vz wrote: well, ill try all i can to get him to play you, if you win you are my new hero.... your micro was good but i cant really judge from what i saw.... you vs clani would close the debate :D You are so clearly all talk. Play gmerc and do 6 rax reaper whatever which way you want to, and watch him defend it going 12 gateway. He asked you politely to try it versus him, why are you dodging? Oh, that's right, you're either full of shit or you're terrible - probably both. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
On April 30 2010 09:11 ploy wrote: You are so clearly all talk. Play gmerc and do 6 rax reaper whatever which way you want to, and watch him defend it going 12 gateway. He asked you politely to try it versus him, why are you dodging? Oh, that's right, you're either full of shit or you're terrible - probably both. lol ? i said i couldnt micro reaper like clani is... im toss... whatever... Oh ok Oak is probably better than me but that doesnt mean im wrong and he is right... all the replay we've seen werent balanced matchup.... i need to see a good toss vs a good terran... | ||
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gmerc
Canada45 Posts
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2759 yea the platinum toss player isnt the best but look at the marauder to counter the stalker.... dont you think the bunker harass + the marauder to counter the 1st stalker is a lot of thing to deal with as protoss ??? im not saying u wouldnt be able to find a way as toss, but do you think it need a fix or something ? its like day after day this rush is getting stronger and stronger... | ||
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gmerc
Canada45 Posts
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dew
United States59 Posts
Any build is counterable with a big skill gap in micro, but can we at least agree that this is broken enough to need tweaking? If the Terran player mined minerals in game 2, and built a Marauder in place of the second reaper, he would have won. Even though the Protoss player knew it a cheesy all-in strategy was coming, and came in with a plan to beat it, if the Terran player macroed a little bit better instead of ignoring his main entirely after the reaper came out, and built a Marauder, he wins. I'd rather to see a replay of a game where the Terran player plays as well as the page 25 replays, except picks up a Marauder instead of the second Reaper while the Reaper plays keep-away, either killing Probes or kiting the Stalker and keeping hits off the Marauder. I don't play Terran at all, this just looks imba to me. | ||
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Beanpaste
United States33 Posts
On May 01 2010 15:24 dew wrote: The page 25 games would have had a different result if Terran built a seventh SCV while the Barracks was going up, put an SCV from gas back onto minerals, and pumped out a Marauder instead of his second Reaper. I agree with the above quote -- the maurader just shoots down the stalker or the pylon and then toss is screwed.... Agreed --- On 1v1 maps PvT -- P is forced to go Gate then cybercore -- otherwise loose to reaper rush. I always go for the cybercore and a chrono boosted stalker as fast as I can on 1v1 maps against terran -- I hate it when I do this and instead the terran go for a handful of marines and a tank The terran play mind games -- they expect you to prepare for a reaper rush -- which can allow for them to do an early timing push with rines and 1 seige tank and your done --- hate it.... | ||
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Inspyr
Australia41 Posts
I watched your game, horrible micro, no probe management, given its a bad map to scout it on, but realistically most terrans badly place there rax over the edge so a simple scout around with a probe will see it. It’s really not worth my time to explain anything to you as your very arrogant and bad mannered and cry excessive amounts. Louder on page 5 or 6, said pretty much the exact way to counter this, you came back with its not a economically viable start to a game if they didn’t early rax. bullshit it isn’t, learn to adapt and think quick you shouldn’t loose to a cheese reaper rush if you let ur games flow, but ur just cocky and foul minded to allow your brain to explore more openings. ps. laughed at the "proven mathematically" you’re a fool | ||
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MrLimeKing
Canada40 Posts
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Phokus
United States31 Posts
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On May 01 2010 19:58 Phokus wrote: totally didnt read all 27 pages.. 1-2 infact, so excuse me if this has been said already. Make zealot.. send zealot at terran... attack wall, reaper comes to attack, back off. then, walk right back up. force him to make another unit for the reaper to leave the base. If that doesnt net you enough time for a stalker you should uninstall. sorry. You could've read the last 2 pages at least - what you are talking about is not the proxy 6 rax reaper --> marauder with bunker and whilst sending a spare zeal to the terran base would be great, that spare zeal simply doesn't exist. | ||
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Phokus
United States31 Posts
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Fangzhou
United States199 Posts
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
On May 01 2010 20:21 Fangzhou wrote: Why are you guys still complaining about his 6 rax proxy rush as my previous post have suggested, if you just send out a scouting probe after 8 pylon, you have a full 60 seconds to find the proxy barracks and once you find it, just hit the scv for a little and infinitely delay the tech lab... easiest win in the world, you don't even have to worry about any of those reaper maradure getting out......... your suggestion is that toss should go 8 pylon everytime against terran ? lol just admit that this is broken.... in a map like lost temple the proxy rax could be at 4-5 different location... so that mean if u fail to find it in time you lose.... and if the terran isnt proxying then you start with a small disavatange... | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Most 2 player maps it's fairly easy to scout the proxy rax if you just scout on 9 with the probe that makes the pylon. The fast rax builds hurt the terran more then they do you mostly. Also stalkers with probes do fine against marauders without stim so when you make stalkers to counter the reaper the followup marauders really shouldn't be too troublesome. Also overall fast cybercore is always a good move against terran as it allows for fast robotics which is very often a good opening. So being 'forced' to go fast cyber all the time really isn't that bad. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
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-infinite-
United States44 Posts
Just noting that I didn't sacrifice my build order (12 gate) and I wasn't in the hottest position at first. The Terran's Reaper gets his first shot off on one of my probes at 3:48, compared to your 3:44 and 3:35. At the time his shot was fired I had 17 probes compared to your 14 probes. When I got up in the Reapers face he had knocked off 3 probes I believe. A stalker takes 42 seconds to even produce while a Zel takes 33 seconds! That's huge. Get your zel out to harass while bringing a stalker into the fight in my opinion. http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2980 EDIT: Just saw the other replay from the edit. Probe line hit at an improved 3:20 when you had 17 probes. Only thing I noticed was that there was a small mis-management of production. You could have had another stalker coming 10 - 15s earlier. Not sure if that would have been enough to kill those suckers and get around to start messing with the proxy shit. | ||
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Opti
United States155 Posts
Had this happen to me as well.. it's just.. well it's insane if you are going for a 12 gate you basically automatically lose, there is no way you'll recover. I think i handled it as well as could be expected, although in retrospect i should have pulled my workers away sooner when the bunker was done, and now i know that it is impossible to try to kill the bunker with workers, your probes just die too fast, its really terrible. Sad thing is the second i finally broke the bunker and get him out of my base, his last shot kills my nexus, making it GG. So the thing is, i did scout pretty early on and i knew what he was doing. Obviously i saw no rax (not even a depot for that matter) in his base and a gas with very few workers. HMMMM i WONDER what he could be doing?!?! lol. But it doesn't change the fact that i was already working on a 12 gate and so theres really nothing i could do. I guess vs terran, protoss MUST send a first worker to his base, maybe try to cannon rush him? I hate to cheese, but i guess you have to fight cheese with cheese? The fact is, stalkers are the only thing that will counter reapers early on. Sure you can chase him with 4-5 drones, and it is effective, but once that bunker starts going down, forget it, you lost unless you have something that can kill his SCV. I guess i can't blame terran, protoss are a little overpowered at the moment according to blizzard, i think mainly due to void rays etc and the fact that marines get raped by basically everything that protoss has to offer except like immortals. Any suggestions other than just scout with one of my first workers and cannon rush him if he goes super fast reaper? Will cannon rush even work? (im assuming if he pulls scvs off of minerals/gas he wont be able to do reaper rush, so even if it doesn't work, if it at least stalls him until i have stalkers out so his eco is screwed and he can't make reapers, it would have done it's job) | ||
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