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On April 03 2010 02:53 TSL-Lore wrote:zerg FE gets completely shut down by this as well. I discussed it in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=118166it seems these new reaper rush builds need somewhat of a re-balance .. anything that comes that early in the game shouldn't require such a drastic response as to change the entire match up. except for epic scv rushes or something.
I don't know what you're doing wrong but I know that as a zerg player myself I don't get shut down by reapers at all, whether they're 8rax reaper 10rax reaper or otherwise. It only works if he manages to get the bunker up, which he shouldn't unless you're really not paying attention to your natural at all.
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on another note, this was an INSANELY fast reaper rush, not a 10 rax, LOLOLLOLOLOLOL no. 6 rax my friends, he does not build a single worker, just bunker + reaper rush. First shot from reaper is at ~3:05
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I find that my reaper rushes get deflected alot by skilled players.
Basically you're hampering yourself too much by skipping scvs, that your oppennent will ultimately win early game vs you because you got nothing in your base.
Reapers mostly works against lower skilled players, who are unaware of the concequences and counters of going a reaper rush.
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How do you stop proxy fast reaper into into marauder on Scrap Station? Earlier it was suggested 8 pylon, scout, 10 gate, rush for stalker which takes care of reaper with minor damage (at least against bad reaper micro) then transition into immortals (to deal with marauders) and make a sentry to ff the ramp to buy time. The Scrap Station ramp is way too big.
Is the only option tech lab delay with probe after a successful scouting of the proxy?
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on close maps i will 10rax and send 2-3 reapers along with my scouting scv.. if the p does not build a zlot it makes it easier for me to harass his econ but i also begin building a bunker with my scouting scv.. now if the p takes his probes off the line to kill my scv i can pick them off even easier with my reaper and usually the bunker finishes and its gg after that. even if the p makes a zlot i can out micro the zlot with my speed. The only thing that really stops me from killing 7+ probes is when he takes 5+ probes off the line and chases my reaper because they move just as fast as the reaper it becomes hard to get too many probe kills.
He isnt mining for that long of time.. Does it set him back enough to justify the reapers? if so it needs to be nerfed i think.
Oh also, I saw this in a korean game. Probably the BEST thing u can possibly do to stop this is to scout him early (after 9 pylon should be fine but i am unsure) and when you see his early rax/refinery build a pylon where his addon will go. Once he lifts his rax up you cancel the pylon and keep ur probe undernearth the rax as long as u can so that it cannot land. This will completely null the reaper rush. :D
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On May 04 2010 20:21 Veetz wrote:
[...] and when you see his early rax/refinery build a pylon where his addon will go. Once he lifts his rax up you cancel the pylon and keep ur probe undernearth the rax as long as u can so that it cannot land. This will completely null the reaper rush. :D
i loled
:D
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does this work against the standard builds of the other races?
AKA can you do a 10 rax reaper rush vs a 13/14 pool or a 12 rax?
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You can get Terran with it. Not many zerg though. As soon as the queen pops, your fun is over.
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What do you do if he have one marine? or builds one? fight or flight?
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On May 05 2010 04:06 folke123 wrote:
What do you do if he have one marine? or builds one? fight or flight?
Marine < Reaper unless he's got more.
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People are missing the point. 10rax reaper is not the problem, 6 rax is. The only way I have managed to defend is against bad reaper micro. Perfect reaper micro is unbeatable. If you can chase him away with the probes without taking too many loses, and manage to use the probes to A) kill SCV b) kill bunker c) form a wall blocking the reaper (my favorite) from entering, then you've won the game, but failing the terran's piss poor micro it is virtually impossible. It requires the toss player to be perfect, plan for it by 10 gating, and scout it.
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On May 05 2010 05:10 mR.Waffles wrote:
People are missing the point. 10rax reaper is not the problem, 6 rax is. The only way I have managed to defend is against bad reaper micro. Perfect reaper micro is unbeatable. If you can chase him away with the probes without taking too many loses, and manage to use the probes to A) kill SCV b) kill bunker c) form a wall blocking the reaper (my favorite) from entering, then you've won the game, but failing the terran's piss poor micro it is virtually impossible. It requires the toss player to be perfect, plan for it by 10 gating, and scout it.
I pretty much always 10gate on maps where 6rax is convenient and i've still yet to have a serious issue with the reaper rush. The marauder follow-up gets really nasty though. I've got a number of losses where i wasn't thinking clearly and built two stalkers instead of getting a zealot or sentry third and was consequently run-over by a couple marauders who came in after the reaper died.
Don't really care one way or the other if it's nerfed, but i would like to see games go longer in general.
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Seriously, has anyone tried sending a chrono-boosted zealot into the opponent's base once they scout the 6 rax (preferably proxy)? He can't build marauders or extra reapers without using his initial reaper to kill your zealot.
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I wouldn't even mind the fast reaper but only if its commits the terran to be at a disadvantage if it doesn't work out and not overrun me with marauders 2 mins after.
AND EVEN more if it would also be challenging micro wise on the terrans part. I feel like it does not only put the toss in a defensive position from the first minute of the game but its also way easier to micro a fast ranged unit against some slow probes + zealot.. if it would take both parties to micro heavily it would be fine. maybe just taking some range from the reaper might help?
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On May 05 2010 05:43 STS17 wrote:
Seriously, has anyone tried sending a chrono-boosted zealot into the opponent's base once they scout the 6 rax (preferably proxy)? He can't build marauders or extra reapers without using his initial reaper to kill your zealot.
the problem with the idea of racing a terran with a zealot is that they can lift off the command center, and unless you can get a stalker out and to the other side of the map(assuming the terran would let you do that in the first place, or you could get it before the command center went out of attack range, or assumming you could get your cybercore out at all)
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On May 07 2010 00:46 Eyeon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 05:43 STS17 wrote:
Seriously, has anyone tried sending a chrono-boosted zealot into the opponent's base once they scout the 6 rax (preferably proxy)? He can't build marauders or extra reapers without using his initial reaper to kill your zealot. the problem with the idea of racing a terran with a zealot is that they can lift off the command center, and unless you can get a stalker out and to the other side of the map(assuming the terran would let you do that in the first place, or you could get it before the command center went out of attack range, or assumming you could get your cybercore out at all)
He's not saying kill the entire base with one zealot. He is saying, use your zealot to force the reaper to defend while you get a stalker. I never thought of this, might try it.
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On May 07 2010 00:50 Alou wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:46 Eyeon wrote:On May 05 2010 05:43 STS17 wrote:
Seriously, has anyone tried sending a chrono-boosted zealot into the opponent's base once they scout the 6 rax (preferably proxy)? He can't build marauders or extra reapers without using his initial reaper to kill your zealot. the problem with the idea of racing a terran with a zealot is that they can lift off the command center, and unless you can get a stalker out and to the other side of the map(assuming the terran would let you do that in the first place, or you could get it before the command center went out of attack range, or assumming you could get your cybercore out at all) He's not saying kill the entire base with one zealot. He is saying, use your zealot to force the reaper to defend while you get a stalker. I never thought of this, might try it.
why would he bother defending his main when he can lift and and kill everything you have with a reaper?
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I'm also having problems with this. If not for this strategy, my W:L ratio would probably be about 80% but this strat alone brings me down to 65%. I'm not very good, but I'm trying to practice against this. I like the idea of scouting early and delaying his tech lab with a pylon.
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How does it sound that the reaper's building time would be little increased, cost increased to 50 minerals 75 gas but that speed upgrade would come built in with the reaper?
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On May 07 2010 00:52 Eyeon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:50 Alou wrote:On May 07 2010 00:46 Eyeon wrote:On May 05 2010 05:43 STS17 wrote:
Seriously, has anyone tried sending a chrono-boosted zealot into the opponent's base once they scout the 6 rax (preferably proxy)? He can't build marauders or extra reapers without using his initial reaper to kill your zealot. the problem with the idea of racing a terran with a zealot is that they can lift off the command center, and unless you can get a stalker out and to the other side of the map(assuming the terran would let you do that in the first place, or you could get it before the command center went out of attack range, or assumming you could get your cybercore out at all) He's not saying kill the entire base with one zealot. He is saying, use your zealot to force the reaper to defend while you get a stalker. I never thought of this, might try it. why would he bother defending his main when he can lift and and kill everything you have with a reaper?
Because you'll still have a base and be making units/buildings? He won't lift off because of one zealot. He isnt going to say "OMG A ZEALOT!! LIFTOFF HURRY!!" He will either defend with the reaper and delay his attack on you or just let it do some damage. You'll still have the zealot. You'll be able to get a second zealot or a stalker in your base. It isn't some reaper/zealot building kill off contest. This isn't an all in strategy. Building a zealot is a pretty safe idea. I'm not sure where you're getting this crazy "I'll just build a reaper and lift off my buildings" idea
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EPT
