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On April 02 2010 19:32 DiTH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2010 18:48 Trap wrote:Here's a replay of me as toss beating some 11/11 rax marauder proxied (I'm 9th plat EU div1). http://www.mediafire.com/?eny1zy1jwmy Summary: I make 2 zealots chrono'd before stalker after I scout abnormal fast gas, then go 2 gate -> robo. After periodically sacrificing zealots but keeping my stalkers alive under his marauder pressure, when I had 3 immortals I pushed out before he had stim or ghosts and cleaned out all his marauders. I think the key with any marauder pressure is : don't walk around the map with your stalkers in front, and figure out when the guy is expanding so you can either counter or expand in a timely manner. Lead with a probe preferably or secondarily a zealot. I lost innumerable pvts by wandering around with my stalker-zealot in the early game only to have the other guy going 2 rax marauder and loosing both of them. You need to keep your unit count up especially on a map with no 1 forcefield block. The problem with the 2 zealots is that if Terran goes reapers you pretty much lost a bunch of probes and even maybe your zealots.Which ofc is not game end but its not the best possible way to start a game.
I don't problems with early reapers anymore and I always open with at least 1 zealot. Threaten to surround the reaper with 4 probes when it gets close then chase it with the zealot. Buys enough time to get a stalker in your mineral line.You can chrono 2 zealots in the time it takes to build your core so it's not a problem of how many zealots; just an issue of "I'd rather be safe than dead", and my early game PvT revolves on having a healthy number of zealots anyways.
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On April 02 2010 19:41 ShoGi wrote:
xD
WTF is this post ? are you just trying to get your count up ? No contribution at all
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Instead of nerfing marauder damage I would prefer if they nerfed their durability and/or the slow.
For example: losing their one base armor(and maybe 5 hp) would help zeals/lings/marines a lot, since they deal lots of low damage attacks.
There are several options for the slow.
- Making it a research, so it's no longer available for an early rush and the terran has to invest time and resources into it
- It would simply slow less(maybe with some kind of stacking up to the old value with multiple marauders attacking the same target)
- Making marauders slower, so the slow would be more of a compensation and less of a bonus(or buffing other infantry move speed to ahcieve a similar effect, lings dont need any more speed, but marines and zealots would definitely benefit and they already feel a bit too slow in general).
The bigger problem is terrans are practically forced to mass marauders, since marines are very hard countered by splash damage(for example 2 banelings can kill like 20 marines), so mixing infantry is not very effective.
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On April 02 2010 19:40 Marradron wrote:
What this game really need is a rebalance of roach vs marauder vs immortal. make them all less powerfull and lower immortals min cost. It's just lame that these 3 units dominate the early game strategy options.
this. Z just masses roaches and hydras(not their fault.they have no options),T just masses marauders vs almost evrything and P can counter all and evrything on ground with robo tech(immortals counter evrything early and allow heavy time attacks vs all races with the same build,collossus when the massing starts).
all this hard counter crap and "semi hero" units (roach,marauder,immortal) totally destroy the game.
this never was the case in sc1 cause even "hard" counters were countercountered and degraded to softcounters by proper micro or just swapping unit composition a bit
they should go back to the drawing board with the hard counters (in bw we had 3 different dmg zones for dmg type vs unit type which alone made a big difference) and stop gving units allround just far far superior stats then others.
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On April 02 2010 17:30 jdr_ wrote:
I'm willing to bet most of the people in here that are complaining about terran, or specifically marauders being overpowered, A) Aren't platinum level players B) Haven't played terran enough to know it's weaknesses and C) play shitty builds repeatedly expecting blizzard to fix the shittiness of their build for them.
1 gate core is fucking bad, I don't care how many times you see people do it on youtube, 1 gate is going to lose to 3 rax every god damned time.
My challenge to you fucking idiots, get to platinum first so this test actually matters, then play terran for 200 games without building a single marauder. Just fucking try it, be sure to let me know when you revolutionize every matchup because as it stands, they're terran's lynchpin muscle unit. Marines are awful against storm, collosi and roaches(roaches have 2 armor un-upgraded meaning marines have 1/3rd their HP and 1/4th their damage). So we can't use marines, we can't use hellions because they're fucking awful against anything that isn't like(ie everything that matters), thors are completely useless because of the immortal shield functionality, siege tanks die too quickly and easily to be cost efficient, vikings are complete shit when they're not in fighter mode, so what does that leave us. Am I only allowed to mass ghosts and battlecruisers just because some fucking idiot kid can't realize that it's not intelligent to do a fucking greedy tech build every game?
There should be a new rule that anything C or below on Iccup, or plat and below on SC2 can't make balance change posts.
rofl your good. So im plat and i don't play terran and i did this 1 rax build vs toss so easy Not to mention its so easy to bunker rush with this strat to support the muradors Toss literally needs to pull probes to defend this. Not to mention you go off crying about random shit in tvp that has nothing to do with the topic, ffs stay on topic.
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I've watched quite a while a Terran player's stream. He is in platinum and plays well.
Guess what:
When he plays vs Terran or vs Zerg he tries to scout opponent and do some harassing once in a while.
But when he plays vs Protoss he just masses maradeurs without worrying about anything. No scouting no harass. And still wins 4 games out of 5. Amazing.
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This is really not that hard to counter:
Don't make Zealots. Go 1 gate with a fast core and put down your robotics immediately after your core (before Stalker). Make a stalker immediately after with chrono boost. When your stalker is about to pop out, send 3-4 probes to attack the maurauder(s) forcing him to micro around while your stalker gets a few free hits. When your robo is done, warp in an Immortal with chrono and once it pops out, assuming you haven't lost too many probes, you can counter and win or just contain him and outmacro him later.
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On April 02 2010 23:19 hellitsaboutme wrote:
I've watched quite a while a Terran player's stream. He is in platinum and plays well.
Guess what:
When he plays vs Terran or vs Zerg he tries to scout opponent and do some harassing once in a while.
But when he plays vs Protoss he just masses maradeurs without worrying about anything. No scouting no harass. And still wins 4 games out of 5. Amazing.
The reason I personally mass marauders is because marines are so bad against toss. I'm experimenting with hellions, but tanks will own immortals. I've heard some people say banshees are good. TvP is really hard for me at the moment.
If they nerf the marauder, they really need to buff something else of the terran because of how hard it is to deal will colossus/storm.
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I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
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On April 02 2010 17:30 jdr_ wrote:
I'm willing to bet most of the people in here that are complaining about terran, or specifically marauders being overpowered, A) Aren't platinum level players B) Haven't played terran enough to know it's weaknesses and C) play shitty builds repeatedly expecting blizzard to fix the shittiness of their build for them.
1 gate core is fucking bad, I don't care how many times you see people do it on youtube, 1 gate is going to lose to 3 rax every god damned time.
My challenge to you fucking idiots, get to platinum first so this test actually matters, then play terran for 200 games without building a single marauder. Just fucking try it, be sure to let me know when you revolutionize every matchup because as it stands, they're terran's lynchpin muscle unit. Marines are awful against storm, collosi and roaches(roaches have 2 armor un-upgraded meaning marines have 1/3rd their HP and 1/4th their damage). So we can't use marines, we can't use hellions because they're fucking awful against anything that isn't like(ie everything that matters), thors are completely useless because of the immortal shield functionality, siege tanks die too quickly and easily to be cost efficient, vikings are complete shit when they're not in fighter mode, so what does that leave us. Am I only allowed to mass ghosts and battlecruisers just because some fucking idiot kid can't realize that it's not intelligent to do a fucking greedy tech build every game?
There should be a new rule that anything C or below on Iccup, or plat and below on SC2 can't make balance change posts.
I challenge you to play Protoss in Platinum and stop the ever-popular semi-early Reaper attack without an early 1Gate-Core build.
Shut the fuck up with your dumbass 'willing to bet'.
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Watched all 4 replays. I agree that not all the opponents were particularly high caliber (well, maybe they're better than me :-D, but not near top tier). Maybe we could get some replays against folks here to share? Given 7 pages of discussion about how to counter this, I'd like to see this work in practice (e.g. play 1 game with Toss doing a normal build, rematch with Toss doing a counter build such as stalker+probes+fast robo, rematch with T trying to counter the Toss build still doing normal marauders).
A few things I noticed from T's side:
1. Very quickly, it looked like T could have thrown down a 3rd rax for more marauders. I'm assuming he didn't because he had already won, but I'm curious how an optimal build for this would look.
2. T also had orbital command energy building up; again, probably didn't bother with more MULEs given he was already winning in some of these builds.
3. In one game T went 10/11 rax, in the others he went 11/11 rax. I assume 11/11 is better?
4. I wonder how those games would have went if T went reapers instead of marauders? In the games where P started zealots, I'm assuming it would have been equally or more effective?
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On April 02 2010 13:59 adelarge wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2010 13:33 Slick348 wrote:On April 02 2010 11:29 adelarge wrote:On April 02 2010 10:22 Slick348 wrote:On April 02 2010 10:13 ploy wrote:
It's surprising to me how many people are willing to jump on the OP bandwagon even though, unless I'm mistaken, the last PlayXP tournament had many terran losing to protoss players (and no terran players in the final 4 I believe?)
There must be a way to hold them off other than complaining about them. I don't have a beta key, although I've had experience in SC1 and a lot of balancing experience in many other games. But from what i've seen, Terran has been winning all TVP and I'm talking about pro matches, not just your casual SC2 players. The reason for terran probably losing to protoss players is probably because there's way more protoss players than terran and well the terran either slipped up very bad/trying something new or there were no good Terran players at the time lol. Could you possibly be even more arrogant? You have zero experience with actually playing SC2, yet you easily discredit recent results from PlayXP (where participate very good players) basically just by "The terrans there were bad lolz". You ask other people for proofs of their claims, yet your only arguments are "I have seen some stuff". Seriously what the fuck? I won't even comment about marauders (im)balance, because I know there are many more competent people than me, but I have to say something. Wow lol, do you actually think that people can't see that their imbalanced by watching multiple videos? You'll mostly know more about the game from watching videos than playing the game. I catch on games fast trust me, this goes with any kind of game. This is why i say i have a lot of experience in balance and i'm usually right. That's why i want people to send me games where protoss win so i could be proved wrong. And i talk about this a lot because when a lot of people talk they look into changing things. So don't start "seriously what the F***" before seeing someones point of view. Now could someone send me a link where PROTOSS WINS You are still missing the point. Random guy without beta with couple of post coming into SC2 strategy forum claiming marauders are imbalaced and asking other people to prove him wrong...it doesn't work that way. It should be *you* who support your statements with hard fact first and then we can talk. If some platinum protoss switches to terran, beat the hell out of other platinum protosses with the imbalanced marauder spam (because it's so easy, right?), come here and post the replays, I will be among the first who would say "Oh crap, Blizzard needs to look at it asap!" And yes, there may be some people who could find imbalanced stuff just by analyzing videos. But for every one of them there is like 999 whiners who believe they are also the chosen ones but in reality know nothing. You've never said anything which would send you in the first group. Why should people even waste their time sending you replays? You have to learn that you must usually prove your worth before people start to take you seriously.
First off I'm not talking about MASS Mauraders. My main complaint was that they really don't need the ability to slow down units, it just makes everything so much easier for terran saying that they already have real good units already like the tank(splash), hellions(splash), marines(stim), repears(40dmg-buildings), ghost(EMP to counter toss), etc. Now what i'm complaining about now is that the Mauraders could counter all first tier units and are very effective against some higher tier units like the collusus and archons, while having all these other good units tanks,hellions, etc. Once again I'm not talking about mass Mauraders, but having them do good against so much other units is pretty ridiculous. Although all i want them to change on the Mauraders is the slowing down unit ability.
EMP now is even more ridiculous. Why does it do both taking off energy and shield? I don't care about them not taking off all shield, the tanks splash finishes that for you or the MMM mix just makes mince meat out of them for you later on. Plus with Protoss units costing so much resources just to lose it easily because one of the problems like EMP must really suck for protoss players.
Now for people who are saying that I don't have a beta key and have no say in it, you could learn much more by watching matches than being in it. I've been watching so many videos on many games saying "wow, i guarantee to you that person is cheap and needs something done to him/her" in a fighting game, i was right. Called out imbalance in shooting games like weapons, i was right. Same goes for strategy, RPGs' and many other games. Said the hydralisk were over powered just by watching them in SC1, what happens in SC2? They get nerfed. So don't hate me because i don't have a beta key, try to reason and try to look at and see what i'm saying. Watch some videos try to disagree or agree with me, don't just hate or write stupid comments.
Once again i'm not a toss user although i do be them at times. To have very expensive units just to be countered so easily (colussus, mothership,etc.) by low tiered units that cost less resources must be a pain. I guarantee you that the phoenix cost more resources than most air units and suck the most...
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On April 02 2010 17:30 jdr_ wrote:
I'm willing to bet most of the people in here that are complaining about terran, or specifically marauders being overpowered, A) Aren't platinum level players B) Haven't played terran enough to know it's weaknesses and C) play shitty builds repeatedly expecting blizzard to fix the shittiness of their build for them.
1 gate core is fucking bad, I don't care how many times you see people do it on youtube, 1 gate is going to lose to 3 rax every god damned time.
My challenge to you fucking idiots, get to platinum first so this test actually matters, then play terran for 200 games without building a single marauder. Just fucking try it, be sure to let me know when you revolutionize every matchup because as it stands, they're terran's lynchpin muscle unit. Marines are awful against storm, collosi and roaches(roaches have 2 armor un-upgraded meaning marines have 1/3rd their HP and 1/4th their damage). So we can't use marines, we can't use hellions because they're fucking awful against anything that isn't like(ie everything that matters), thors are completely useless because of the immortal shield functionality, siege tanks die too quickly and easily to be cost efficient, vikings are complete shit when they're not in fighter mode, so what does that leave us. Am I only allowed to mass ghosts and battlecruisers just because some fucking idiot kid can't realize that it's not intelligent to do a fucking greedy tech build every game?
There should be a new rule that anything C or below on Iccup, or plat and below on SC2 can't make balance change posts.
LOLOLOL Obviously a troll post or just a noob who's full of himself. 1 gate core will counter 3 rax and I will beat you every single time.
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On April 03 2010 05:11 Slick348 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2010 13:59 adelarge wrote:On April 02 2010 13:33 Slick348 wrote:On April 02 2010 11:29 adelarge wrote:On April 02 2010 10:22 Slick348 wrote:On April 02 2010 10:13 ploy wrote:
It's surprising to me how many people are willing to jump on the OP bandwagon even though, unless I'm mistaken, the last PlayXP tournament had many terran losing to protoss players (and no terran players in the final 4 I believe?)
There must be a way to hold them off other than complaining about them. I don't have a beta key, although I've had experience in SC1 and a lot of balancing experience in many other games. But from what i've seen, Terran has been winning all TVP and I'm talking about pro matches, not just your casual SC2 players. The reason for terran probably losing to protoss players is probably because there's way more protoss players than terran and well the terran either slipped up very bad/trying something new or there were no good Terran players at the time lol. Could you possibly be even more arrogant? You have zero experience with actually playing SC2, yet you easily discredit recent results from PlayXP (where participate very good players) basically just by "The terrans there were bad lolz". You ask other people for proofs of their claims, yet your only arguments are "I have seen some stuff". Seriously what the fuck? I won't even comment about marauders (im)balance, because I know there are many more competent people than me, but I have to say something. Wow lol, do you actually think that people can't see that their imbalanced by watching multiple videos? You'll mostly know more about the game from watching videos than playing the game. I catch on games fast trust me, this goes with any kind of game. This is why i say i have a lot of experience in balance and i'm usually right. That's why i want people to send me games where protoss win so i could be proved wrong. And i talk about this a lot because when a lot of people talk they look into changing things. So don't start "seriously what the F***" before seeing someones point of view. Now could someone send me a link where PROTOSS WINS You are still missing the point. Random guy without beta with couple of post coming into SC2 strategy forum claiming marauders are imbalaced and asking other people to prove him wrong...it doesn't work that way. It should be *you* who support your statements with hard fact first and then we can talk. If some platinum protoss switches to terran, beat the hell out of other platinum protosses with the imbalanced marauder spam (because it's so easy, right?), come here and post the replays, I will be among the first who would say "Oh crap, Blizzard needs to look at it asap!" And yes, there may be some people who could find imbalanced stuff just by analyzing videos. But for every one of them there is like 999 whiners who believe they are also the chosen ones but in reality know nothing. You've never said anything which would send you in the first group. Why should people even waste their time sending you replays? You have to learn that you must usually prove your worth before people start to take you seriously. First off I'm not talking about MASS Mauraders. My main complaint was that they really don't need the ability to slow down units, it just makes everything so much easier for terran saying that they already have real good units already like the tank(splash), hellions(splash), marines(stim), repears(40dmg-buildings), ghost(EMP to counter toss), etc. Now what i'm complaining about now is that the Mauraders could counter all first tier units and are very effective against some higher tier units like the collusus and archons, while having all these other good units tanks,hellions, etc. Once again I'm not talking about mass Mauraders, but having them do good against so much other units is pretty ridiculous. Although all i want them to change on the Mauraders is the slowing down unit ability. EMP now is even more ridiculous. Why does it do both taking off energy and shield? I don't care about them not taking off all shield, the tanks splash finishes that for you or the MMM mix just makes mince meat out of them for you later on. Plus with Protoss units costing so much resources just to lose it easily because one of the problems like EMP must really suck for protoss players. Now for people who are saying that I don't have a beta key and have no say in it, you could learn much more by watching matches than being in it. I've been watching so many videos on many games saying "wow, i guarantee to you that person is cheap and needs something done to him/her" in a fighting game, i was right. Called out imbalance in shooting games like weapons, i was right. Same goes for strategy, RPGs' and many other games. Said the hydralisk were over powered just by watching them in SC1, what happens in SC2? They get nerfed. So don't hate me because i don't have a beta key, try to reason and try to look at and see what i'm saying. Watch some videos try to disagree or agree with me, don't just hate or write stupid comments. Once again i'm not a toss user although i do be them at times. To have very expensive units just to be countered so easily (colussus, mothership,etc.) by low tiered units that cost less resources must be a pain. I guarantee you that the phoenix cost more resources than most air units and suck the most...
That's the stuff I am talking about.
Maradeurs are too cost effective. Being so low level in tech depth and cheap they require expensive and high tech units to counter them. Why is protoss supposed to rush to get Immortals to counter Maradeurs? Why it's cannot be fought by zeal/stalker/sentry army, which is already more expensive but still suck against maradeur? I really don't get it, so much power is given to Maradeurs, couldn't they give it to tanks?
And I also don't understand terrans who say Immortals own Maraduers:
1st: One immortal equivalent to 4 maradeurs in terms of cost
2nd: after one EMP immortals are pretty much useless, coz they don't get armor bonuses without shield.
who will win 12 marad/1 ghost or 3Immortal/1Sentry? Answer is obvious.
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On April 03 2010 05:11 Slick348 wrote:
Same goes for strategy, RPGs' and many other games. Said the hydralisk were over powered just by watching them in SC1, what happens in SC2? They get nerfed.
I don't think that's really an indication of anything... I mean, I said minerals were overpowered in the first game so what do they do? They nerf minerals to 5 per trip in SC2. I'm such a good observer.
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On April 02 2010 19:03 Luca wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2010 08:53 Slick348 wrote:
There's honestly no reason for Mauraders to have the ability to slow down enemy units when there
1. Ranged units
2. Powerful units
3. Stimmed units (and can be healed by Medics)
4. Overpowered units
They honestly need to take that ability off, they gave it to them for no reason at all. Roaches atleast have to attack supper close but mauraders destroy roaches since their armored plus they slow down enemy units, it's ridiculous.
Mauraders counter
Zealots(even if they have charge)
Stalkers
Archons
Colossus
Not too sure about Sentries but people always mix up Mauraders with Marines so destroys them either way
HighTemps move slow enough already, one shot from Maurader and their already dead even if you have units to try to back up your high temps. High Temps is practically a waste to build since they're useless with EMP(overpowered cast) hitting them.
Protoss needs something that can do splash damage to take out large armies. All they have is the colossus which can easily be countered because there's so many ways since they can be attacked by air and ground units. Where's the reaver? Archon's splash damage?(which I'd rather have splash damage than a bonus increase). They nerfed Protoss so much it's ridiculous. I want somebody to show me a PVT match where Protoss wins because every time i see a PVT my bets are always on Terran. Remember PROS
P.S. Be free to disagree with me because i have many more things to say about terran being overpowered. And please back your statements up I actually rofl'd at your post, yer marauders are pretty op, but saying toss need more splash damage?!?!?! You have collos and storm, you don't need anymore splash damage apart from maybe some air splash. I think toss is probably the most thought out, apart from air maybe. Just because one unit is slightly OP doesn't mean your race is now shit.
We need back splash from archons or reavers, dunno what was so funny at my post lol. Storm isn't the best anymore and could always be countered by EMP (which i've seen many times). Terran has splash with Hellions, Tanks, EMP, I forget what the Raven's ability is called, nuke if you want to count that in and Planetary fortress as well. Does it still seem very funny saying that they'd probably would need less splash damage saying that they have more units on the field than Toss? As for colossus, i find their pretty much balanced since they can be attacked by both air and ground. Once again i think they should atleast just take off the ability to slow down enemy units for the mauraders.
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On April 03 2010 05:32 hellitsaboutme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2010 05:11 Slick348 wrote:On April 02 2010 13:59 adelarge wrote:On April 02 2010 13:33 Slick348 wrote:On April 02 2010 11:29 adelarge wrote:On April 02 2010 10:22 Slick348 wrote:On April 02 2010 10:13 ploy wrote:
It's surprising to me how many people are willing to jump on the OP bandwagon even though, unless I'm mistaken, the last PlayXP tournament had many terran losing to protoss players (and no terran players in the final 4 I believe?)
There must be a way to hold them off other than complaining about them. I don't have a beta key, although I've had experience in SC1 and a lot of balancing experience in many other games. But from what i've seen, Terran has been winning all TVP and I'm talking about pro matches, not just your casual SC2 players. The reason for terran probably losing to protoss players is probably because there's way more protoss players than terran and well the terran either slipped up very bad/trying something new or there were no good Terran players at the time lol. Could you possibly be even more arrogant? You have zero experience with actually playing SC2, yet you easily discredit recent results from PlayXP (where participate very good players) basically just by "The terrans there were bad lolz". You ask other people for proofs of their claims, yet your only arguments are "I have seen some stuff". Seriously what the fuck? I won't even comment about marauders (im)balance, because I know there are many more competent people than me, but I have to say something. Wow lol, do you actually think that people can't see that their imbalanced by watching multiple videos? You'll mostly know more about the game from watching videos than playing the game. I catch on games fast trust me, this goes with any kind of game. This is why i say i have a lot of experience in balance and i'm usually right. That's why i want people to send me games where protoss win so i could be proved wrong. And i talk about this a lot because when a lot of people talk they look into changing things. So don't start "seriously what the F***" before seeing someones point of view. Now could someone send me a link where PROTOSS WINS You are still missing the point. Random guy without beta with couple of post coming into SC2 strategy forum claiming marauders are imbalaced and asking other people to prove him wrong...it doesn't work that way. It should be *you* who support your statements with hard fact first and then we can talk. If some platinum protoss switches to terran, beat the hell out of other platinum protosses with the imbalanced marauder spam (because it's so easy, right?), come here and post the replays, I will be among the first who would say "Oh crap, Blizzard needs to look at it asap!" And yes, there may be some people who could find imbalanced stuff just by analyzing videos. But for every one of them there is like 999 whiners who believe they are also the chosen ones but in reality know nothing. You've never said anything which would send you in the first group. Why should people even waste their time sending you replays? You have to learn that you must usually prove your worth before people start to take you seriously. First off I'm not talking about MASS Mauraders. My main complaint was that they really don't need the ability to slow down units, it just makes everything so much easier for terran saying that they already have real good units already like the tank(splash), hellions(splash), marines(stim), repears(40dmg-buildings), ghost(EMP to counter toss), etc. Now what i'm complaining about now is that the Mauraders could counter all first tier units and are very effective against some higher tier units like the collusus and archons, while having all these other good units tanks,hellions, etc. Once again I'm not talking about mass Mauraders, but having them do good against so much other units is pretty ridiculous. Although all i want them to change on the Mauraders is the slowing down unit ability. EMP now is even more ridiculous. Why does it do both taking off energy and shield? I don't care about them not taking off all shield, the tanks splash finishes that for you or the MMM mix just makes mince meat out of them for you later on. Plus with Protoss units costing so much resources just to lose it easily because one of the problems like EMP must really suck for protoss players. Now for people who are saying that I don't have a beta key and have no say in it, you could learn much more by watching matches than being in it. I've been watching so many videos on many games saying "wow, i guarantee to you that person is cheap and needs something done to him/her" in a fighting game, i was right. Called out imbalance in shooting games like weapons, i was right. Same goes for strategy, RPGs' and many other games. Said the hydralisk were over powered just by watching them in SC1, what happens in SC2? They get nerfed. So don't hate me because i don't have a beta key, try to reason and try to look at and see what i'm saying. Watch some videos try to disagree or agree with me, don't just hate or write stupid comments. Once again i'm not a toss user although i do be them at times. To have very expensive units just to be countered so easily (colussus, mothership,etc.) by low tiered units that cost less resources must be a pain. I guarantee you that the phoenix cost more resources than most air units and suck the most... That's the stuff I am talking about. Maradeurs are too cost effective. Being so low level in tech depth and cheap they require expensive and high tech units to counter them. Why is protoss supposed to rush to get Immortals to counter Maradeurs? Why it's cannot be fought by zeal/stalker/sentry army, which is already more expensive but still suck against maradeur? I really don't get it, so much power is given to Maradeurs, couldn't they give it to tanks? And I also don't understand terrans who say Immortals own Maraduers: 1st: One immortal equivalent to 4 maradeurs in terms of cost 2nd: after one EMP immortals are pretty much useless, coz they don't get armor bonuses without shield. who will win 12 marad/1 ghost or 3Immortal/1Sentry? Answer is obvious.
It's only a matter of time before everyone starts seeing my point of view lol. I don't think everyone if looking at the cost of units and build times for everything. As I've heard once before, Toss is just playin a slowly losing battle majority of the time.
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Marauders are quickly becoming the new roach.
I see players going straight to them in the beginning, massing them, and then steamrolling the instant Stim finishes researching.
I would really like to see them give Marauders +20hp benefit from combat shield and make stim marine only.
I think it would get terran players back to using them as more of the meatshield utility unit that they were probably meant to be.
Doing that certainly wouldn't stop the cheese that's being discussed here though.
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On April 03 2010 05:36 pat965 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2010 05:11 Slick348 wrote:
Same goes for strategy, RPGs' and many other games. Said the hydralisk were over powered just by watching them in SC1, what happens in SC2? They get nerfed.
I don't think that's really an indication of anything... I mean, I said minerals were overpowered in the first game so what do they do? They nerf minerals to 5 per trip in SC2. I'm such a good observer.
Lol true, but i mean come on. I don't see how people aren't agreeing with the fact that they don't need that slowing down ability.
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I hate them too in PvT, but I don't want them to lose their slow. It makes them an interesting unit. You can micro them (albeit possibly a bit too effectively) to greatly increase their effectiveness, something that most people find "vital" to make sc2 an e-sport: a unit becomes more effective the more you control it.
Take that slow away and marauders are just marines that can't hit air... and are on steroids.
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EPT
