EPTplatinum level advice, thanks bro.
TvP Marauder Cheese - Page 6
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
platinum level advice, thanks bro. | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
I'm not saying this is not broken, but if it comes to something that can be standardized it's just the same as in BW. If that's the case, eventually Terran players wont be able to make this work effectively and their midgame is screwed and thus will make more economical buildorders. So again, let's say this maruader push is impossible to fend off regardless of what you do, and even if you do fend it off - you're left with 2 probes and 1 zeal when it's over and if that's the only way you can fend it off, then yes, it's completely broken. Regardless, people seem to think that you should be able to hold anything off with standard play.. Lay off the "cool story bro" comments, it just makes you look incredibly stupid btw. | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
On April 02 2010 17:54 yarkO wrote: so protoss should open 2 gate zealot to counter 10rax marauder rush? ye that totally makes sense lol platinum level advice, thanks bro. No, just go 1 gatecorerobo all the time and become flustered when it gets rolled by a build that cuts scv production for the early marauder harass. Are you seriously perplexed that a build that is geared towards punishing greedy builds actually beats a greedy build? If the marauder harass fails, the terran is extremely behind in terms of eco/tech. It became popular because 1gatecorerobo is so popular since it gives protoss a huge edge late game, and there is a window of time where terran can do a timing attack and punish it. | ||
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
On April 02 2010 18:16 wassbix wrote: No, just go 1 gatecorerobo all the time and become flustered when it gets rolled by a build that cuts scv production for the early marauder harass. Are you seriously perplexed that a build that is geared towards punishing greedy builds actually beats a greedy build? If the marauder harass fails, the terran is extremely behind in terms of eco/tech. It became popular because 1gatecorerobo is so popular since it gives protoss a huge edge late game, and there is a window of time where terran can do a timing attack and punish it. The guy I was replying too said going 1gatecore is a stupid, greedy opening. 3 posts came up between me hitting reply and it posting. It's funny because the OP isn't about 1gatecorerobo vs 3gate marauders, it's 10rax that pushes the first marauder into your base as your Core is finishing (in a standard build). 1 gate core is fucking bad, I don't care how many times you see people do it on youtube, 1 gate is going to lose to 3 rax every god damned time. | ||
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caution.slip
United States775 Posts
On April 02 2010 18:19 yarkO wrote: The guy I was replying too said going 1gatecore is a stupid, greedy opening. 3 posts came up between me hitting reply and it posting. It's funny because the OP isn't about 1gatecorerobo vs 3gate marauders, it's 10rax that pushes the first marauder into your base as your Core is finishing (in a standard build). i'm failing to see how a 1gatecore build where the marauder arrives as core can finish can be noticeably different from a 1gatecorerobo being forced to go 2gate vs a super quick marauder push isn't bad..i mean you have to tailor your build to react. Of course 1gatecore is gonna make less units than 2gate and has a larger window of punishment if it becomes indefensible or terran always gets a ridiculous advantage when they do this then it should be changed. | ||
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
I honestly don't see what you are trying to argue against. Nobody is saying Marauders in general are too strong, and nobody is saying that you can't defend it no matter what. The problem is that you are so far behind from the defense that the Terran can literally do whatever he wants to win in the mid-game. | ||
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
vs terran it seems like toss has to open gate, core gate and get lotsa stalkers out asap, its good vs reapers, 10rax marauder and also vs banshees. depending on what terran is going for, the robobay needs to be delayed for a bit, sometimes even a stargate should be built first to counter the first few banshees, even though you would still need a robobay fairly quick there. | ||
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lol_WomensRights
52 Posts
holy f*** tosses couldnt be more whiny and pathetic | ||
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Trap
United States395 Posts
Summary: I make 2 zealots chrono'd before stalker after I scout abnormal fast gas, then go 2 gate -> robo. After periodically sacrificing zealots but keeping my stalkers alive under his marauder pressure, when I had 3 immortals I pushed out before he had stim or ghosts and cleaned out all his marauders. I think the key with any marauder pressure is : don't walk around the map with your stalkers in front, and figure out when the guy is expanding so you can either counter or expand in a timely manner. Lead with a probe preferably or secondarily a zealot. I lost innumerable pvts by wandering around with my stalker-zealot in the early game only to have the other guy going 2 rax marauder and loosing both of them. You need to keep your unit count up especially on a map with no 1 forcefield block. | ||
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GoDannY
Germany442 Posts
Against Zerg it doesn't matter much. Roaches have less range, speedlings are even way too fast and anyway most cases die when they are hit, however they still have a lot of HP to meatwall banelings. And all you terrans, how about getting 1 or 2 tanks with you against banelings, beside your beloved MMM army... | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
On April 02 2010 18:31 yarkO wrote: If you went 2gate and saved Chrono, you could probably chase the Marauder around until the 2nd one arrives instead of losing your first Zealot to the first Marauder. I honestly don't see what you are trying to argue against. Nobody is saying Marauders in general are too strong, and nobody is saying that you can't defend it no matter what. The problem is that you are so far behind from the defense that the Terran can literally do whatever he wants to win in the mid-game. 10rax marauder does not let the terran get into the mid-game with a strong eco unless A) he does significant damage (kill alot of probes) B) Toss completely overreacts and drops something crazy like 2-3 extra gates Its a very low eco build that shines in the 3-4 minute mark where toss is either just finishing their core (in case of 1gatecore) or 2nd gate is finished and core is being dropped (in case of 2gate core) As toss if I don't scout this early I have problems against this, I've been having a little more success with pulling 2-3 probes to corner/block the first marauder which gives me enough time to chornoboost a stalker by the time the 2nd marauder comes. It could be the case of that I'm outmicroing the guy completely and that in pro level it might not work, but in mid plat it seems to be working out alright. I do think its defendable, but I've noticed Im lot more afraid of going 1gatecorerobo in PvT. | ||
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Aelfric
Turkey1496 Posts
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caution.slip
United States775 Posts
On April 02 2010 18:54 Aelfric wrote: can someone post a replay where this build actually countered ? Its countered here On April 02 2010 18:48 Trap wrote: Here's a replay of me as toss beating some 11/11 rax marauder proxied (I'm 9th plat EU div1). http://www.mediafire.com/?eny1zy1jwmy Summary: I make 2 zealots chrono'd before stalker after I scout abnormal fast gas, then go 2 gate -> robo. After periodically sacrificing zealots but keeping my stalkers alive under his marauder pressure, when I had 3 immortals I pushed out before he had stim or ghosts and cleaned out all his marauders. I think the key with any marauder pressure is : don't walk around the map with your stalkers in front, and figure out when the guy is expanding so you can either counter or expand in a timely manner. Lead with a probe preferably or secondarily a zealot. I lost innumerable pvts by wandering around with my stalker-zealot in the early game only to have the other guy going 2 rax marauder and loosing both of them. You need to keep your unit count up especially on a map with no 1 forcefield block. While not strictly the same build, marauders enter the base at 4:00 (replay time) Actually instead of double pumping marauders from 2 rax..might be better to have marauders come out of one and rines out of the other, marauders just take so long to kill zealots and you're only slowing one at a time anyways | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On April 02 2010 18:49 GoDannY wrote: Since the very beginning I dont see the point of having Marauders a slow down attack - there is no early counter about it... they are good agains zealots and stalkers and the micro is way to easy since the slowdown is so extrem. Against Zerg it doesn't matter much. Roaches have less range, speedlings are even way too fast and anyway most cases die when they are hit, however they still have a lot of HP to meatwall banelings. And all you terrans, how about getting 1 or 2 tanks with you against banelings, beside your beloved MMM army... I cant belive that people are actually questioning the Marauder slow.. Yes it's very strong earlygame in certain situations, but so are let's say the speed of speedlings vs MM, and Zealots vs Lings in general and hydras vs everything etc. It's still down to unit specific countering, which I just feel is a stupid way to approach a game like this. Sure they need to be considered when you create a army composition, but what leads up to that army composition is what matters. | ||
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
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Luca
United Kingdom47 Posts
On April 02 2010 08:53 Slick348 wrote: There's honestly no reason for Mauraders to have the ability to slow down enemy units when there 1. Ranged units 2. Powerful units 3. Stimmed units (and can be healed by Medics) 4. Overpowered units They honestly need to take that ability off, they gave it to them for no reason at all. Roaches atleast have to attack supper close but mauraders destroy roaches since their armored plus they slow down enemy units, it's ridiculous. Mauraders counter Zealots(even if they have charge) Stalkers Archons Colossus Not too sure about Sentries but people always mix up Mauraders with Marines so destroys them either way HighTemps move slow enough already, one shot from Maurader and their already dead even if you have units to try to back up your high temps. High Temps is practically a waste to build since they're useless with EMP(overpowered cast) hitting them. Protoss needs something that can do splash damage to take out large armies. All they have is the colossus which can easily be countered because there's so many ways since they can be attacked by air and ground units. Where's the reaver? Archon's splash damage?(which I'd rather have splash damage than a bonus increase). They nerfed Protoss so much it's ridiculous. I want somebody to show me a PVT match where Protoss wins because every time i see a PVT my bets are always on Terran. Remember PROS P.S. Be free to disagree with me because i have many more things to say about terran being overpowered. And please back your statements up I actually rofl'd at your post, yer marauders are pretty op, but saying toss need more splash damage?!?!?! You have collos and storm, you don't need anymore splash damage apart from maybe some air splash. I think toss is probably the most thought out, apart from air maybe. Just because one unit is slightly OP doesn't mean your race is now shit. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
Like someone already suggested, making Zealots survive a bit longer could be enough to hold it off completely, at least if the protoss knows what he needs to do. Blizzard just made the tech lab more convenient to get in the next patch, to promote Reapers, so they probably won't touch the timings/costs of the tech lab. So my guess is we'll probably see the damage nerf for Marauders. | ||
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DiTH
Greece116 Posts
On April 02 2010 18:48 Trap wrote: Here's a replay of me as toss beating some 11/11 rax marauder proxied (I'm 9th plat EU div1). http://www.mediafire.com/?eny1zy1jwmy Summary: I make 2 zealots chrono'd before stalker after I scout abnormal fast gas, then go 2 gate -> robo. After periodically sacrificing zealots but keeping my stalkers alive under his marauder pressure, when I had 3 immortals I pushed out before he had stim or ghosts and cleaned out all his marauders. I think the key with any marauder pressure is : don't walk around the map with your stalkers in front, and figure out when the guy is expanding so you can either counter or expand in a timely manner. Lead with a probe preferably or secondarily a zealot. I lost innumerable pvts by wandering around with my stalker-zealot in the early game only to have the other guy going 2 rax marauder and loosing both of them. You need to keep your unit count up especially on a map with no 1 forcefield block. The problem with the 2 zealots is that if Terran goes reapers you pretty much lost a bunch of probes and even maybe your zealots.Which ofc is not game end but its not the best possible way to start a game. | ||
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Marradron
Netherlands1586 Posts
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ShoGi
Germany38 Posts
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