On April 03 2010 23:08 Slick348 wrote: Just want everyone to see how crap psi storm is against mauraders and well... everything else.
I don't get what you are talking about. Do you want a protoss to just go pure high templar and win? I guess you're stuck in the mentality that "storm > bio" from SCBW. This is SC2, time to start over and learn a new game. Also storm is amazing against marines, who ever said it's supposed to be better?
It feels like many of you just want storm to be stronger like SCBW, even tho it's not the same game at all.
Do you want terran to go pure maradeur and win? Which is already happening.
No I like having diverse armies, but I don't think you should just look at storm as the direct counter just because it was a counter vs bio in SCBW, protoss has a lot of other potential counters.
I think you don't know that storm animation is the same but impact is 77% less than before patch. It's huge very huge nerf. Roaches and maradeurs don't give a shit to storms now. Pls check latest PvT and PvZ games.
EMP counters HTs well, don't you say that storm is hard counter to MMM.
On April 03 2010 23:56 hellitsaboutme wrote: I think you don't know that storm animation is the same but impact is 77% less than before patch. It's huge very huge nerf. Roaches and maradeurs don't give a shit to storms now. Pls check latest PvT and PvZ games.
EMP counters HTs well, don't you say that storm is hard counter to MMM.
Good protoss players will spread out HT's so you can't EMP them all. You can also put them in a Warp Prism to protect them until you are in storm range.
On April 03 2010 23:56 hellitsaboutme wrote: I think you don't know that storm animation is the same but impact is 77% less than before patch. It's huge very huge nerf. Roaches and maradeurs don't give a shit to storms now. Pls check latest PvT and PvZ games.
EMP counters HTs well, don't you say that storm is hard counter to MMM.
Good protoss players will spread out HT's so you can't EMP them all. You can also put them in a Warp Prism to protect them until you are in storm range.
So do terran can spread his army against protoss, considering that before patch Storm had same radius as EMP. I think we are shifting from topic. Let's not do that.
On April 03 2010 23:56 hellitsaboutme wrote: I think you don't know that storm animation is the same but impact is 77% less than before patch. It's huge very huge nerf. Roaches and maradeurs don't give a shit to storms now. Pls check latest PvT and PvZ games.
EMP counters HTs well, don't you say that storm is hard counter to MMM.
Good protoss players will spread out HT's so you can't EMP them all. You can also put them in a Warp Prism to protect them until you are in storm range.
So do terran can spread his army against protoss, considering that before patch Storm had same radius as EMP. I think we are shifting from topic. Let's not do that.
On April 03 2010 23:56 hellitsaboutme wrote: I think you don't know that storm animation is the same but impact is 77% less than before patch. It's huge very huge nerf. Roaches and maradeurs don't give a shit to storms now. Pls check latest PvT and PvZ games.
EMP counters HTs well, don't you say that storm is hard counter to MMM.
Good protoss players will spread out HT's so you can't EMP them all. You can also put them in a Warp Prism to protect them until you are in storm range.
So do terran can spread his army against protoss, considering that before patch Storm had same radius as EMP. I think we are shifting from topic. Let's not do that.
What about Warp Prism?
So all we need is a warp rpism, great micro, tier 3 units with their upgrades, and hope that the terran won't have anymore emp left to pull off a storm that might hit 5-6 125hp units for 1-2 second. Seems balanced.
On April 03 2010 23:56 hellitsaboutme wrote: I think you don't know that storm animation is the same but impact is 77% less than before patch. It's huge very huge nerf. Roaches and maradeurs don't give a shit to storms now. Pls check latest PvT and PvZ games.
EMP counters HTs well, don't you say that storm is hard counter to MMM.
Good protoss players will spread out HT's so you can't EMP them all. You can also put them in a Warp Prism to protect them until you are in storm range.
So do terran can spread his army against protoss, considering that before patch Storm had same radius as EMP. I think we are shifting from topic. Let's not do that.
What about Warp Prism?
Thinking of micro me as random player who plays all races I would say: Protoss has to: - put defense shield by sentries - put ice blocks in the heat of battle - spread army - control zeals and immo/stalkers separately - storm - feedback - load/unload HTs from Warp prism overall 6 type of units.
Terran has to: - stim - EMP overall 3 type of units
On April 03 2010 01:51 depthsofchaos wrote: I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
Are you serious? Get out... You know that the Ultralisk CANNOT be slowed by the marauders because it's massive. You do not have the right to have a beta key, and that's if you actually have one if you are not going to help balance the game. I hope I was being trolled...
That replay about that PvT Marauder Rush being stopped is pretty impressive. And albeit the racks was delayed by around 10 seconds on faster, the protoss stopped making units from time to time because of not being used to the build. This is powerful, but not so powerful that it cannot be stopped by a good player.
Bad trolling mr, at least back up your bullshit. Ultras can't catch up to marauders with stim before they die even tho they can't be slowed which I know (without a beta key). Think I'm lying just for fun?
Hahaha, oh wow. Look how even when he got caught up from both sides he just runs away and survives lmao. It isnt as if getting that army as T is that hard at midgame... and thats tier 1 unit against mass t2/t3 units, how is that balanced!
The funniest part about all this is that I will play a terran who goes barracks first, etc. for fastest possible marauder cheese, go all in marauders for the next 20 minutes, eventually I hold out and beat him with storm, and he will act like storm is imbalanced, after him making 1 unit for 30 minutes and me making 75% of my tech tree to counter and out expanding. "Storm is IMBA!!" is what I will hear with 4 expo's to his 1-2 and my 7 tech buildings vs pure marauder. Unfortunately Blizzard is stupid enough to look at overall win % for races as their balance que and forgets that over half of the newbies that don't know how to play the game will pick terran because it is the "human" race and get raped, bringing that % down so they overbalance them to reciprocate. Even when guys like CowGoMoo were showing that Terran were just fine from the get go.
On April 03 2010 01:51 depthsofchaos wrote: I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
Are you serious? Get out... You know that the Ultralisk CANNOT be slowed by the marauders because it's massive. You do not have the right to have a beta key, and that's if you actually have one if you are not going to help balance the game. I hope I was being trolled...
That replay about that PvT Marauder Rush being stopped is pretty impressive. And albeit the racks was delayed by around 10 seconds on faster, the protoss stopped making units from time to time because of not being used to the build. This is powerful, but not so powerful that it cannot be stopped by a good player.
Bad trolling mr, at least back up your bullshit. Ultras can't catch up to marauders with stim before they die even tho they can't be slowed which I know (without a beta key). Think I'm lying just for fun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gl7a1CDQHI
OMFG! This video clearly shows how maradeurs are overpowered. I thought that they had slight advantage. But this is too much... and they cost only 25 gas.
Waaaat da hel iz zat???? Where are you lookin' blizs?
That's why you make lings with your ultras.
Seriously, there's many things that totally rape Ultras in SC2, such as Siege tanks and Immortals. Even Stakers with blink are probably invincible against pure Ultras. Marauders are fine.
It's not that different from SC1 in which a Science Vessel could bring an Ultralisk to about 5% hp, or Dragoons would be a joke against them also (again, that's exactly why you need zerglings).
Oh really? Do you know that Maradeurs counter speedlings as well? Speedlings barely scratch stimmed maradeurs and when maradeurs/speedlings are dancing around in high speed Ultras will never reach them. Ultras are way slower than in sc1.
And don't you dare to compare cheap tier1 maradeurs to high tech units. I can see that 5 Maraduers are countering 3 Ultras. If we take same cost can u imagine that 1 Immortal or 2 Dragoons are countering 3 Ultras. Pls do some analyze
Stimmed Marauders don't counter speedlings when there's a decent number of them. Not even close.
I can imagine 3 stalkers with blink countering 3 ultras without speed. Again, the result would have been totally different in this video if the ultralisks had speed.
Hell, even 1 tank could kite 3 ultras without speed forever in SC1. Marauders are fine.
On April 03 2010 01:51 depthsofchaos wrote: I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
Are you serious? Get out... You know that the Ultralisk CANNOT be slowed by the marauders because it's massive. You do not have the right to have a beta key, and that's if you actually have one if you are not going to help balance the game. I hope I was being trolled...
That replay about that PvT Marauder Rush being stopped is pretty impressive. And albeit the racks was delayed by around 10 seconds on faster, the protoss stopped making units from time to time because of not being used to the build. This is powerful, but not so powerful that it cannot be stopped by a good player.
Bad trolling mr, at least back up your bullshit. Ultras can't catch up to marauders with stim before they die even tho they can't be slowed which I know (without a beta key). Think I'm lying just for fun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gl7a1CDQHI
Hahaha, oh wow. Look how even when he got caught up from both sides he just runs away and survives lmao. It isnt as if getting that army as T is that hard at midgame... and thats tier 1 unit against mass t2/t3 units, how is that balanced!
I think quite all ppl agree that there is a problem with maradeurs. Just a few dumbass terrans don't understand it.
On April 04 2010 00:54 lepape wrote: Sorry but stimmed Marauders don't counter speedlings when there's a decent number of them. Not even close.
I can imagine 3 stalkers with blink countering 3 ultras without speed. Again, the result would have been totally different in this video if the ultras had speed.
Hell, even 1 tank could kite 3 ultras without speed forever in SC1. Marauders are fine.
No. Slowing the ultra's down with the default slow attack, and speeding the marauders up with the simpack is like micro'ing speed hydra's against ensnared no-leg zealots. It's called tier 1 EZ mode.
The best thing toss have going for them in PvT right now is how lazy many Terran's have become from marauder ez living.
On April 04 2010 00:54 lepape wrote: Sorry but stimmed Marauders don't counter speedlings when there's a decent number of them. Not even close.
I can imagine 3 stalkers with blink countering 3 ultras without speed. Again, the result would have been totally different in this video if the ultras had speed.
Hell, even 1 tank could kite 3 ultras without speed forever in SC1. Marauders are fine.
No. Slowing the ultra's down with the default slow attack, and speeding the marauders up with the simpack is like micro'ing speed hydra's against ensnared no-leg zealots. It's called tier 1 EZ mode.
You're wrong, ultralisks can't be slowed by Marauders. Watch the video carefully, they run at exactly the same speed before and after they get attacked by them.
Note that those ultras also don't have speed upgrade, so when you think about it, it's ridiculous to read so many people commenting ''OMG nerf marauders'' when... those ultralisks are not even upgraded!
You got me, instead of slowing they do 20 damage per shot, cost for cost more dps than immortals but tier 1 and slowing everything else. Also can be healed and stimmable for essentially 40 dps (double cost for cost immortal dps against armored, even more than that against light). Very well thought out unit those marauders.
Slow doesn't affect massive units. Those are ultralisks, thors, and colossi. Notice in TvP protoss can actually micro his colossi vs marauders. This makes them 10x more useful than any other unit in their arsenal. It just goes to prove how important microability is. Mara slow removes microability of all non-massive units, which dumbs the game down to "herp derp ima mass marauders." This is not what anybody should want.
On April 04 2010 01:07 TFlame wrote: You got me, instead of slowing they do 20 damage per shot, cost for cost more dps than immortals but tier 1 and slowing everything else. Also can be healed and stimmable for essentially 40 dps (double cost for cost immortal dps against armored, even more than that against light). Very well thought out unit those marauders.
Yes, because you can make... zerglings against marauders, in this very specific case.
Come on guys, have you even played SC1? Just a few dragoons were extremely cost effective against ultralisks (esp without speed), tanks were also extremely good.
There's NOTHING that different here with marauders.
On April 03 2010 01:51 depthsofchaos wrote: I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
Are you serious? Get out... You know that the Ultralisk CANNOT be slowed by the marauders because it's massive. You do not have the right to have a beta key, and that's if you actually have one if you are not going to help balance the game. I hope I was being trolled...
That replay about that PvT Marauder Rush being stopped is pretty impressive. And albeit the racks was delayed by around 10 seconds on faster, the protoss stopped making units from time to time because of not being used to the build. This is powerful, but not so powerful that it cannot be stopped by a good player.
Bad trolling mr, at least back up your bullshit. Ultras can't catch up to marauders with stim before they die even tho they can't be slowed which I know (without a beta key). Think I'm lying just for fun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gl7a1CDQHI
OMFG! This video clearly shows how maradeurs are overpowered. I thought that they had slight advantage. But this is too much... and they cost only 25 gas.
Waaaat da hel iz zat???? Where are you lookin' blizs?
That's why you make lings with your ultras.
Seriously, there's many things that totally rape Ultras in SC2, such as Siege tanks and Immortals. Even Stakers with blink are probably invincible against pure Ultras. Marauders are fine.
It's not that different from SC1 in which a Science Vessel could bring an Ultralisk to about 5% hp, or Dragoons would be a joke against them also (again, that's exactly why you need zerglings).
Oh really? Do you know that Maradeurs counter speedlings as well? Speedlings barely scratch stimmed maradeurs and when maradeurs/speedlings are dancing around in high speed Ultras will never reach them. Ultras are way slower than in sc1.
And don't you dare to compare cheap tier1 maradeurs to high tech units. I can see that 5 Maraduers are countering 3 Ultras. If we take same cost can u imagine that 1 Immortal or 2 Dragoons are countering 3 Ultras. Pls do some analyze
Sorry but stimmed Marauders don't counter speedlings when there's a decent number of them. Not even close.
I can imagine 3 stalkers with blink countering 3 ultras without speed. Again, the result would have been totally different in this video if the ultralisks had speed.
Hell, even 1 tank could kite 3 ultras without speed forever in SC1. Marauders are fine.
Have you played ZvT? I am mostly random and I know what I am saying. Zerg never has equivalent mass of zerglings against maradeurs. In simple situation zerg has roughly mixed army, and when zerglings try chase down maradeurs they get too far from main army of zerg (hydras or ultras) and maradeurs kill easily small amount of zerglings.
Theoretically, 1 stalker can kill 100 Ultras. But thats not the case. DPS of stalkers is so tiny that Ultras can simply ignore them. Whereas you cannot ignore maradeur's damage. 5 Maradeurs with stim (5*20*2) = 200 per second. 3 stalkers (3*14) = 42. Feel the difference? Not to mention 5 maradeurs are cheaper than 3 stalkers in terms of gas. Again you don't analyze. Plz use some brain.
On April 04 2010 00:53 TFlame wrote: The funniest part about all this is that I will play a terran who goes barracks first, etc. for fastest possible marauder cheese, go all in marauders for the next 20 minutes, eventually I hold out and beat him with storm, and he will act like storm is imbalanced, after him making 1 unit for 30 minutes and me making 75% of my tech tree to counter and out expanding. "Storm is IMBA!!" is what I will hear with 4 expo's to his 1-2 and my 7 tech buildings vs pure marauder. Unfortunately Blizzard is stupid enough to look at overall win % for races as their balance que and forgets that over half of the newbies that don't know how to play the game will pick terran because it is the "human" race and get raped, bringing that % down so they overbalance them to reciprocate. Even when guys like CowGoMoo were showing that Terran were just fine from the get go.
Are you really so clueless or just lying on purpose to flame others?
EPT
