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Has anybody good tried this?
The Terran missile turret appears to do similar damage to vikings (while attacking *much* faster) against air units and colossi, for only 100 minerals. Its range is 7, outranging the Colossus by 1 pre-upgrade (IIRC).
So, it appears to me that these could be useful defense weapons in very specific locations- placing missile turrets atop cliffs may prevent colossi from waltzing over/around them relatively cheaply- possibly allowing a Terran to put up a relatively comprehensive defense in the midgame with only siege tanks, ghosts (if P built immortals in particular), and turrets. The turrets, of course, also prevent Observers from flying overhead, so it should be very difficult for the Protoss to gain vision of the turrets.
Possible locations:
-On top of natural expansion cliffs on LT
-On top of main cliff overlooking small choke on Desert Oasis
-On top of the many, many cliffs on Kulas Ravine
-Probably other places
This is only theorycraft at this point as it's 1:36AM and I need to wake up in about 4 hours to head to class- but I need to write this down before I forget.
So, is this a realistic possibility in an actual game, allowing a Terran to temporarily save on Vikings, or am I just completely cracked out/sleep deprived?
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you mentioned that collusus out-range them with the upgrade, so i dont see what purpose they would really server to counter them except to maybe slow them down a little bit... but for 100 minerals i'd say its not really worth it :\
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Indeed, it wouldn't *stop* the colossi for very long when range is taken into consideration, I'm simply thinking of their incredible damage combined with sight range abuse to stop the P from walking colossi through specific choke points. He can't shoot at what he can't see. Tomorrow, I intend to try to find out whether there are any builds/maps or timing windows where this may be useful.
It would still be quicker/more productive, however, if a better player than I could come forward with something relatively definitive one way or the other.
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It is somewhat useful, even considering the range. If you are making a push with T, you can throw up a few towers as you go, as it will add detection (saving scans vs DT and Obs) and it is a good place to fight the P at. If he is killing the towers at max range, then his Collosi are in front. And if he has units in front, you can kill those units from cover of the turrets (he has to move collosi forward, then back, ending up getting hit by turrets.) I guess what I'm saying is, if the Colossi are engaging the towers, they aren't targeting your units. Plus if you have vikings near a tower nest, it can keep the Collossi off.
It adds more micro that the P has to do, if he doesn't want the towers to do damage. If you have emp, or any tanks, putting up towers will help. But I wouldn't over do it.
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He will be seeing just fine, since colossus can see up cliffs.. Still, it's probably a good idea to get missile turrets to get rid of the observer / help defend against colossus somewhat.
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Colossus outrange turrets and have aerial vision, so the turrets will only slow them down a bit, no prevention at all. You can use them to defend your tanks from colossus, but tanks are good vs colossus anyway.
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What about if you get the range upgrade for turrets?
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range upgrade adds 1, so colossus will still outrange the turrets by 1. it's a good idea to get the armor upgrade if you're getting infantry, so engineering bay isnt a waste.
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Tanks are better vs colossuses than turrets are, and so are vikings
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Nah - Tanks aren't very good against Collossi, cuz' they're slow and positioning isn't really that good, especially against Collossi, who can just walk over cliffs n' stuff. Definitely go for Vikings, Shield-Upgrade and don't stim too much. ^^'
I'd just go for a nice balanced mix of Marauders and Marines with Shield-Upgrade, 1-2 Ghost and lots of Vikings. Of you have enough vikings, go for Stim and Medivacs and more Upgrades from E-Bay. Later maybe a Raven and tech towards HSM, but I would'n go for Tanks at all.
@Topic: Turrets aren't as good as Vikings against Collossi, but if you know the opponent has observer and goes for Collossi and you're on 2 base and need a bit of static defense, few turrets can't hurt. They also protect you from Void-Rays, DT's n' stuff, but they're completely useless if the P goes for Immortals and controls his observer well...
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Colossus can see up cliffs?
That's what I get for not playing P then, my apologies.
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The one time i remember using Turrets vs Collosi was when i was doing an early timing push. I didnt have a Starport so i made turrets as i pushed to fend off Colossi.
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Is it standard that the protoss upgrades Collossi range?
Even if that's the case I think It could be a good idea since u force the toss to either upgrade it and delay his harrass and most important. U'll be notified that your turret is being attacked and have time to save your scvs and send units.( That is if it's as in bw, you don't get notified if your workers die.
Either way it can be worth it)
I'm not in the beta though, so I have no Idea of what I'm talking about. Just applying my sc mind to it
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On March 25 2010 23:16 SirGlinG wrote:Is it standard that the protoss upgrades Collossi range? Even if that's the case I think It could be a good idea since u force the toss to either upgrade it and delay his harrass and most important. U'll be notified that your turret is being attacked and have time to save your scvs and send units.( That is if it's as in bw, you don't get notified if your workers die. Either way it can be worth it) I'm not in the beta though, so I have no Idea of what I'm talking about. Just applying my sc mind to it
Colossi range is pretty much the closest this game comes to imba right now IMO
This will, at best, slow down the collosi for about 2 seconds. I don't think it's worth it unless you desperately need to defend for whatever reason.
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so..turret can attack ground...? lol i didn't know that xD
and why does protoss needs obs against terran?
sorry i'm a newb 
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On March 26 2010 08:06 The6357 wrote:
so..turret can attack ground...? lol i didn't know that xD
No? Colossus head is in the air.
As for the OP. I usually only mkake turrets vs colossus if they are rushing for support bay. Esp on Metalopolis when they are close poss they can walk in and out of your main and that can become really dangerous early on.
FYI I wouldn't exactly call myself good but I'm rank 19 Platinum div 14 atm and have had some experience vs this and played random for about 250 games on the 1v1 ladder.
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wtf collossus's head is in the air? i don't know why but this makes me giggle abit..so every unit in sc2 can attack collosus xD...
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Well... the main problem I see here is that even with the turret range researched colossi out-range turrets (getting colossi range is like getting goon range in sc1, mandatory almost). I guess it'd stall them from harassing though.
I guess it's not a terrible idea if harassment is an issue since turrets and mineral only and there tends to be a surplus of those.
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The key to using turrets against collossus is to work with your army. If the collossus pushes in on the amy, then the turret gets some strong attacks in. If it waits to kill the turret, its a few shots your army didn't have to take.
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range not worth the 100 mineral stall
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Can colossi see as much as they have range?
If you build turrets in the high ground, only the colossus can see it. If he can't see as far away as he attacks, then he won't be able to outrange the turret.
Maybe you'd need Hi-Sec for this to fully work, but I think high ground turrets may be a viable defense, or at least severely severely slow them down in some maps.
EDIT> disregard this. Colossi apparently have 10 vision range... WTF
so besides being a siege-range durable insane AoE damage dealer with high mobility, supportable from one base, and that can have its efficiency increased and be transported with warp prisms, it is also a portable watchtower!?
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EPT
