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On May 03 2013 16:38 iamcaustic wrote:The map having no chance at being any good in SC2 is one thing, but even going so far as to call it a TPW map just because you ported it? That's basically the StarCraft equivalent of kids on DeviantArt tracing someone else's art and claiming it as their own creative work. Now don't get me wrong, I've made a port as well, but I also made numerous design adjustments and aesthetic changes to make it into my own derivative work, on top of giving proper credit to the original author where it matters most -- the map description in the Battle.net client. "Port of the original Brood War map" isn't proper credit, especially when the majority of SC2 players have no background knowledge of the competitive Brood War scene. That can easily be misunderstood as porting one of your own BW maps into SC2. If all you wanna do these days is make BW ports for SC2, power to you man. That's not a crime or anything, regardless how well they'll play out in a different game. Just put more effort into giving credit where credit is due instead of coasting off the work of others and labelling it as your own, where only a fraction (BW vets) of a fraction (Competitive StarCraft audience) of the SC2 player base will know any better. Absolutely nowhere is Earthattack (김응서) mentioned; not in the map description, not in the map's additional info, not even in this thread.
a port is not done in half an hour, so yes i call it tpw because i put effort in creating this. it looks exactly the same because thats my goal in mapping and it was all along, to bring back the broodwar feeling back into sc2.
that means i try to get as close as possible to the original with textures, layout and doodads. this one actually uses 6 custom textures. thats also alot of effort to do those.
maybe i dont give enough credit but who cares really.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
I love Pathfinder normally and I can't wait to play this.
TerranLover, you're a master at maps with this tileset, I'm sure of it <3
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On May 03 2013 22:41 Terranlover wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 16:38 iamcaustic wrote:The map having no chance at being any good in SC2 is one thing, but even going so far as to call it a TPW map just because you ported it? That's basically the StarCraft equivalent of kids on DeviantArt tracing someone else's art and claiming it as their own creative work. Now don't get me wrong, I've made a port as well, but I also made numerous design adjustments and aesthetic changes to make it into my own derivative work, on top of giving proper credit to the original author where it matters most -- the map description in the Battle.net client. "Port of the original Brood War map" isn't proper credit, especially when the majority of SC2 players have no background knowledge of the competitive Brood War scene. That can easily be misunderstood as porting one of your own BW maps into SC2. If all you wanna do these days is make BW ports for SC2, power to you man. That's not a crime or anything, regardless how well they'll play out in a different game. Just put more effort into giving credit where credit is due instead of coasting off the work of others and labelling it as your own, where only a fraction (BW vets) of a fraction (Competitive StarCraft audience) of the SC2 player base will know any better. Absolutely nowhere is Earthattack (김응서) mentioned; not in the map description, not in the map's additional info, not even in this thread. a port is not done in half an hour, so yes i call it tpw because i put effort in creating this. it looks exactly the same because thats my goal in mapping and it was all along, to bring back the broodwar feeling back into sc2. that means i try to get as close as possible to the original with textures, layout and doodads. this one actually uses 6 custom textures. thats also alot of effort to do those. maybe i dont give enough credit but who cares really.
You mean you put effort into recreating this, and no one is doubting that. Pretty huge dick move to claim something as your own because you spent time replicating someone else's work, but give no credit to the guy that actually did all the work designing the whole concept on top of creating the original map because -- as you eloquently put it -- "who cares?"
Like I said before, if you wanna do a port as a tribute to the original author and give proper credit where it's due, I think that's great. What you're doing here, however, is mapmaking plagiarism. That's not so great.
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Quote from OP: "This is a remake from the Broodwar Map Pathfinder."
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On May 03 2013 23:29 lefix wrote:
Quote from OP: "This is a remake from the Broodwar Map Pathfinder."
On the topic of quoting things...
On May 03 2013 16:38 iamcaustic wrote:The map having no chance at being any good in SC2 is one thing, but even going so far as to call it a TPW map just because you ported it? That's basically the StarCraft equivalent of kids on DeviantArt tracing someone else's art and claiming it as their own creative work. Now don't get me wrong, I've made a port as well, but I also made numerous design adjustments and aesthetic changes to make it into my own derivative work, on top of giving proper credit to the original author where it matters most -- the map description in the Battle.net client. "Port of the original Brood War map" isn't proper credit, especially when the majority of SC2 players have no background knowledge of the competitive Brood War scene. That can easily be misunderstood as porting one of your own BW maps into SC2.If all you wanna do these days is make BW ports for SC2, power to you man. That's not a crime or anything, regardless how well they'll play out in a different game. Just put more effort into giving credit where credit is due instead of coasting off the work of others and labelling it as your own, where only a fraction (BW vets) of a fraction (Competitive StarCraft audience) of the SC2 player base will know any better. Absolutely nowhere is Earthattack (김응서) mentioned; not in the map description, not in the map's additional info, not even in this thread.
I get and respect that you're sticking up for one of your mappers, Lefix, but I'm really not sure how this is defendable:
On May 03 2013 22:41 Terranlover wrote:
maybe i dont give enough credit but who cares really.
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Honestly you are just trying stir a shitpan Caustic. Nobody wants it.
On the topic of the map: Cool port with changes where necessary. I'd love to see something a little more evolved from this submitted to the TLMC, though. You have more to offer to it!
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On May 03 2013 23:47 eTcetRa wrote:
Honestly you are just trying stir a shitpan Caustic. Nobody wants it.
On the topic of the map: Cool port with changes where necessary. I'd love to see something a little more evolved from this submitted to the TLMC, though. You have more to offer to it!
I'm actually just asking him to take 2 seconds to give the original author credit in the map's description on battle.net because it's the right thing to do. I wouldn't have needed to make what's now 4 posts on the subject if it weren't for these wacky responses to what I feel should be common sense.
Even Blizzard adds the original author's name to the descriptions of their LE versions of maps taken from the community.
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On May 03 2013 23:18 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 22:41 Terranlover wrote:On May 03 2013 16:38 iamcaustic wrote:The map having no chance at being any good in SC2 is one thing, but even going so far as to call it a TPW map just because you ported it? That's basically the StarCraft equivalent of kids on DeviantArt tracing someone else's art and claiming it as their own creative work. Now don't get me wrong, I've made a port as well, but I also made numerous design adjustments and aesthetic changes to make it into my own derivative work, on top of giving proper credit to the original author where it matters most -- the map description in the Battle.net client. "Port of the original Brood War map" isn't proper credit, especially when the majority of SC2 players have no background knowledge of the competitive Brood War scene. That can easily be misunderstood as porting one of your own BW maps into SC2. If all you wanna do these days is make BW ports for SC2, power to you man. That's not a crime or anything, regardless how well they'll play out in a different game. Just put more effort into giving credit where credit is due instead of coasting off the work of others and labelling it as your own, where only a fraction (BW vets) of a fraction (Competitive StarCraft audience) of the SC2 player base will know any better. Absolutely nowhere is Earthattack (김응서) mentioned; not in the map description, not in the map's additional info, not even in this thread. a port is not done in half an hour, so yes i call it tpw because i put effort in creating this. it looks exactly the same because thats my goal in mapping and it was all along, to bring back the broodwar feeling back into sc2. that means i try to get as close as possible to the original with textures, layout and doodads. this one actually uses 6 custom textures. thats also alot of effort to do those. maybe i dont give enough credit but who cares really. You mean you put effort into recreating this, and no one is doubting that. Pretty huge dick move to claim something as your own because you spent time replicating someone else's work, but give no credit to the guy that actually did all the work designing the whole concept on top of creating the original map because -- as you eloquently put it -- "who cares?" Like I said before, if you wanna do a port as a tribute to the original author and give proper credit where it's due, I think that's great. What you're doing here, however, is mapmaking plagiarism. That's not so great.
wtf dude he clearly states that this is a remake. end of the story. (btw I didnt see the creator's name of Fighting Spirit on your link as well lmao)
and balance or not, this looks more interesting than 200 dualsite/daybreak clones out there like these DF[name] maps (no offense)
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Offense taken! Prepare for war! :D
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On May 03 2013 23:55 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 23:47 eTcetRa wrote:
Honestly you are just trying stir a shitpan Caustic. Nobody wants it.
On the topic of the map: Cool port with changes where necessary. I'd love to see something a little more evolved from this submitted to the TLMC, though. You have more to offer to it! I'm actually just asking him to take 2 seconds to give the original author credit in the map's description on battle.net because it's the right thing to do. I wouldn't have needed to make what's now 4 posts on the subject if it weren't for these wacky responses to what I feel should be common sense. Even Blizzard adds the original author's name to the descriptions of their LE versions of maps taken from the community.
I have to side with Caustic here. If you want to take yourselves serious as mapmakers, then you should do as anyone who quotes / uses literary works on an academic level : make sure you give credit where credit is due, otherwise it starts leaning towards plagiarism, even if that was not your intention.
If you don't care about all that stuff... then don't expect to be taken seriously either.
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On May 03 2013 23:59 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 23:18 iamcaustic wrote:On May 03 2013 22:41 Terranlover wrote:On May 03 2013 16:38 iamcaustic wrote:The map having no chance at being any good in SC2 is one thing, but even going so far as to call it a TPW map just because you ported it? That's basically the StarCraft equivalent of kids on DeviantArt tracing someone else's art and claiming it as their own creative work. Now don't get me wrong, I've made a port as well, but I also made numerous design adjustments and aesthetic changes to make it into my own derivative work, on top of giving proper credit to the original author where it matters most -- the map description in the Battle.net client. "Port of the original Brood War map" isn't proper credit, especially when the majority of SC2 players have no background knowledge of the competitive Brood War scene. That can easily be misunderstood as porting one of your own BW maps into SC2. If all you wanna do these days is make BW ports for SC2, power to you man. That's not a crime or anything, regardless how well they'll play out in a different game. Just put more effort into giving credit where credit is due instead of coasting off the work of others and labelling it as your own, where only a fraction (BW vets) of a fraction (Competitive StarCraft audience) of the SC2 player base will know any better. Absolutely nowhere is Earthattack (김응서) mentioned; not in the map description, not in the map's additional info, not even in this thread. a port is not done in half an hour, so yes i call it tpw because i put effort in creating this. it looks exactly the same because thats my goal in mapping and it was all along, to bring back the broodwar feeling back into sc2. that means i try to get as close as possible to the original with textures, layout and doodads. this one actually uses 6 custom textures. thats also alot of effort to do those. maybe i dont give enough credit but who cares really. You mean you put effort into recreating this, and no one is doubting that. Pretty huge dick move to claim something as your own because you spent time replicating someone else's work, but give no credit to the guy that actually did all the work designing the whole concept on top of creating the original map because -- as you eloquently put it -- "who cares?" Like I said before, if you wanna do a port as a tribute to the original author and give proper credit where it's due, I think that's great. What you're doing here, however, is mapmaking plagiarism. That's not so great. wtf dude he clearly states that this is a remake. end of the story. (btw I didnt see the creator's name of Fighting Spirit on your link as well lmao) and balance or not, this looks more interesting than 200 dualsite/daybreak clones out there like these DF[name] maps (no offense)
If you load up "Galaxy - Abaddon Blaze" in the Battle.net client, the first part of the description is as thus:
"Created by the Galaxy mapmaking team. Inspired by Fighting Spirit, created by Rose.of.Dream."
It's like 2 seconds to add that into a map description to give credit to the original author when people load up the map in SC2. That's the description that matters, because most people don't actually read TL map threads. I'm not sure why people are so up in arms about the idea of adding "Original map created by Earthattack (김응서)" in the map description as common courtesy for the original author's work.
Anyway, I'm not going to clutter up the map thread any further. I've said my bit, and I think deep down Mereel is a better person than to take credit for other peoples' work, so I leave it in his capable hands.
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there is a reason that for ages people reference other books/texts and give credit to other authors. the 'text' behind a text is integral part of what it is and in my opinion it is the same with other design products - like maps - because giving credit to the original author does not only express respect towards his/her work, but also tells the audience something about the history of a map/design idea.
it is not difficult to say that map x inspired your work or that you ported the map from bw where it was originally conceived by map maker x.
people who support the idea to give credit to the author are not craving for recognition but help the idea of authorship in map making, hence support map making per se by emphasizing the importance of the person behind the design ideas that ultimately make the game what it is.
giving credit does not take away anything from you as a map maker. porting a 3p is a hell of a job.
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On May 03 2013 23:45 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 23:29 lefix wrote:
Quote from OP: "This is a remake from the Broodwar Map Pathfinder." On the topic of quoting things... Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 16:38 iamcaustic wrote:The map having no chance at being any good in SC2 is one thing, but even going so far as to call it a TPW map just because you ported it? That's basically the StarCraft equivalent of kids on DeviantArt tracing someone else's art and claiming it as their own creative work. Now don't get me wrong, I've made a port as well, but I also made numerous design adjustments and aesthetic changes to make it into my own derivative work, on top of giving proper credit to the original author where it matters most -- the map description in the Battle.net client. "Port of the original Brood War map" isn't proper credit, especially when the majority of SC2 players have no background knowledge of the competitive Brood War scene. That can easily be misunderstood as porting one of your own BW maps into SC2.If all you wanna do these days is make BW ports for SC2, power to you man. That's not a crime or anything, regardless how well they'll play out in a different game. Just put more effort into giving credit where credit is due instead of coasting off the work of others and labelling it as your own, where only a fraction (BW vets) of a fraction (Competitive StarCraft audience) of the SC2 player base will know any better. Absolutely nowhere is Earthattack (김응서) mentioned; not in the map description, not in the map's additional info, not even in this thread. I get and respect that you're sticking up for one of your mappers, Lefix, but I'm really not sure how this is defendable: Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 22:41 Terranlover wrote:
maybe i dont give enough credit but who cares really.
Nobody knows who Earthattack is... even less so than the name Pathfinder from BW.
Honestly what you're saying has truth in it, but I don't think it's a big deal one way or another. Tons of artists write their songs based off of previous artists songs and give NO credit. Want to see something cool?
Watch Some Nights by Fun + Show Spoiler +
And now Cecilia by Simon & Garfunkel + Show Spoiler +
They're basically the same song (melody, chords, rhythm section)... but nobody knows that. It pisses me off, but not that much when you learn that almost all artists, including Bob Dylan, copied other songs. Metal copies classical quite often.
So yes it's nice to give credit. Especially when you're remaking the map entirely. But Mereel has put a lot of time into remaking it and making his own adjustments for SC2. I wouldn't condemn him. And of course it can be a TPW map.
[edit] Spoilered the videos
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Why is this thread so off topic? Come on guys, keep this thread about the map.
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16 years later, and we still can't make vertical or curved cliffs in StarCraft.
This world
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Oh, we can make vertical cliffs. It is mostly habits, nostalgia, aesthetics and a tiny bit of gameplay reasons that make us prefer diagonal cliffs :D
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I love these 3 player maps. Going to try to make one.
Very nice layout, though I would add 3 more expands (1 for each player).
Also air play looks a bit strong...
Overall good map
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EPT
