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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
On August 08 2013 05:48 skdeimos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 19:16 DanceCommand wrote:
@skdeimos: Looking at the base layout atm the first four remind me a lot of Planet S, with the exception that the 9 and 3 o'clock bases seem kinda tough with that high ground there. Are you set on keeping that? To me it feels kinda ... out of place. I'd like to see what the map would look like if you moved the corner 4ths closer to 12 and 6 o'clock repectively and then squeeze the main-nat-third line like one or two 3x3 grids higher and lower respectively. I like the texturing you've got going on but maybe switch the grassy bits with the desert bits? Seems conceptually confusing to have sandy dunes above a grass land. I've been thinking a lot about moving the corner bases closer to 12 and 6 o clock actually, by enlarging the lowground path connecting it to the third. I'm currently experimenting with some layout changes in the top left/lower right corners. As for the 9 and 3 o clock bases, you only think they're an issue because you're thinking of this map as having a Planet S-esque expansion pattern. Those bases are intended to be lategame bases along the map's split line, like the 12 and 6 bases on Daybreak. You're right that those high grounds would be an excellent staging point for attacks on that base, especially in midgame PvX, but that's intended because it makes it a more interesting lategame base. Oh, and I figured out how to add collapsible rocks! Actually no I didn't, I just opened Akilon Wastes and copied them because I couldn't figure out how to place them normally. Anyways, the third base is really interesting now because of them. Very reminiscent of Ravage, and I fucking love the third base on Ravage.
Oh and that ramp to the main is way too exposed. Just straight up. Force field that bitch and it's good night sweet prince. The more I look at this the more I think no zerg would ever want to play here. Both third options look im-effin-possible in ZvP. (I don't really play a lot of zerg so what do I know tho.) Whether that's a bad thing or not is a topic for a different discussion and more a question of what you're going for with this map. In my opinion it's totally fine for one matchup to be apparently broken as shit on a map. That's why we have vetoes. Some good TvP could be had on this map and then there are also mirrors.
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Current WIP
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B9bdycx.jpg)
You can wall with 1 pylon + 1 gate above the nat and 1 pylon OR gate at the rocks. Not sure if I should widen the middle ramps. Also not sure if I want towers in the middle of each big center high ground.
134x154
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 08 2013 17:04 EatThePath wrote:Current WIP You can wall with 1 pylon + 1 gate above the nat and 1 pylon OR gate at the rocks. Not sure if I should widen the middle ramps. Also not sure if I want towers in the middle of each big center high ground. 134x154
Where is the like-button?
At first sight the nat-.thrid setup seems to disfavour Z, but maybe not too much as you can ling-runby and go with worker and queen between nat and third and youäd be forced to use hydras I think, which is better than being forced to use mutas :D
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4OcE3OX.jpg)
Changes made:
- 2 Xel'Naga towers have been added to the low ground accessible via the center.
- Main/Nat/3rd has been shifted and redone to widen the main/main gap distance for air units.
- Quick texture work.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cZQTHvf.jpg)
144x112
Current Wip
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Hello everyone I will now post my second map here now. I´ve wanted to make a 3 player map for awhile and now the benefits from the latest patch i have now done so.
How to does it look in terms of balance and symetry?
It will be distance between the mains and the lowground when im done.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ecd7Ylq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oZBwuIc.jpg)
Btw the mineralfields is f***ed right now up.
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I think you need to do three things:
- Move the middle base to below the main so it's further from the centre.
- Move the main ramp closer to the natural.
- Either move the ramp to the low ground base closer to the natural, or add another small ramp there.
Like this (compare red and orange):
![[image loading]](http://satpic.ru/images/Stz.png)
Otherwise, with the middle base so close to the centre and the low ground base so hard to defend the player spawning clockwise will have too large an advantage.
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@BillNydus: what AndG said.
@aircooled: where is the 3rd base? The base below the main is quite far and open for a 3rd. Maybe if it was tucked back into a pocket more directly below the ramp leading to it. Or add another base righthand below the nat? It seems like there may have been on there before? I also think the map is very static (like worst than daybreak) with only narrow center paths all converging on one open center location, or the really distance outside paths. This is why I think filling in the ditch under the outside cliff to make a harass path would make this map really vibrant with big macro but lots of harassment. My ideas:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iafq2hq.jpg)
Anyway it's interesting for sure but needs a usable 3rd base. Also how is the rush distance?
@mezrezzed: I think this would benefit from shifted symmetry but maybe you like the squared up perfect symmetry.
@melt: Thanks, what do you mean about hydras though? For defense or harass?
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I think I'd like to see circle syndrome on this, re making the base clockwise to the natural a viable third by rotating the minerals and the wall behind them in place 45-60 degrees counter-clockwise.
It's also a little weird that the rock entrance to the main is closer than the front ramp. A small alteration that would change this is to make a very thin path between the two middle high grounds. It would not be very much of a penalty shot to attack the rocks, but it would mean that if you 1-a at their main you go to the ramp instead of the rocks.
On August 08 2013 17:04 EatThePath wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Current WIP You can wall with 1 pylon + 1 gate above the nat and 1 pylon OR gate at the rocks. Not sure if I should widen the middle ramps. Also not sure if I want towers in the middle of each big center high ground. 134x154
I appreciate how challenging the bases are. I'm not entirely sure what the best expansion path would be even for a given strategy, or exactly how to defend it, but it seems like it would exist. Very cool.
If you put towers on the high ground, will you please put them on the thin appendages that stick out towards the natural? Also those appendages seem to be the only thing that is not mirrored exactly, which is a little weird.
144x144
50 second rush distance before the center rocks are down.
This is a 3p rotational inspired by my Outsider interpretation + Show Spoiler +
It's a little more standard, with fewer weird features like mineral walls and egg walls. There's still a very low resource count and you still have 2 in-base expansions that are quite harassable. I'm considering rocking one gas and a couple mineral nodes so that it's not 3 full bases immediately available. I will also probably rock or pylon half of the main ramp.
The distance from the top of the main ramp to the gold base is the same for the gold bases clockwise and counter-clockwise after the center rocks are down. Obviously until then the clockwise gold is closer.
I'm considering making the in-base expansions 2nd level instead of 3rd (see bottom in-base expansion for an example) which would make them more harassable in the early game and would enable 4gates, changing how you have to defend them, without making them broken.
I'm looking for feedback on my general layout choices (is it interesting?) as well as any areas that stick out as being unequal or rotationally imbalanced.
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@melt: Thanks, what do you mean about hydras though? For defense or harass?
I meant defense. Without them, youd be f*cked as Z I think as other races can deathball up there, use superior range and be offensive on both your nat and third.
Something that strike me as odd is the rock tower blocking the least dangerous path, as the other one is a ramp from higher ground - would make more sense use that feature there? perhpas even a double, like in my map concept
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Here is what I'm working on currently.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7vCPPk3.jpg)
A bit concerned about blink stalkers but we'll see how that turns out.
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That's pretty nice Elche. If the fourth would be a bit closer to the third, or if there was a stronger defensive position to defend 4 bases, I think this would be solid. I see a high aggression late game with this map since the fifths are kinda far, which seems nice. Good job ^^
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I have changed it now, looks better?
Old
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XZGrIYA.jpg)
New
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RdydyK6.jpg)
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On August 11 2013 02:39 BillTheNydusWorm wrote:I have changed it now, looks better? Old New
hi xel'naga fortress 2.0, hope it turns out better than that map.
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On August 11 2013 02:55 19Meavis93 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 02:39 BillTheNydusWorm wrote:I have changed it now, looks better? Old New hi xel'naga fortress 2.0, hope it turns out better than that map.
Since when did XNC become a 3p map?
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Fortress, not Caverns.
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/d/da/Xel%27Naga_Fortress.jpg)
Layout sure is similar, and in general Xel'Naga Fortress has better proportions, but I like the middle on Bill's map better and also that the low ground base is closer to the nat.
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On August 10 2013 16:30 RFDaemoniac wrote:
so one ramp for three bases?
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Don't usually post here, but venturing out of my usual defensive macro style maps and trying a more mid game aggressive and low econ concept. Thought I'd share and maybe get some thoughts.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2m8u7hS.jpg)
128x152
38 sec nat-nat rush distance
Concept: Lower econ games with only 5 bases per player, and one being a gold which will obviously mine out faster. Yet, at the same time the rush distances aren't too short, 1 or 2 base all ins aren't entirely favored. Instead, mid game pushes off 3-4 bases, or multi pronged harassment such as drops will hopefully prevail. If games go late, they will be very tense with fighting for the last of the maps resources and mid map positioning.
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On August 11 2013 08:06 a176 wrote:so one ramp for three bases?
Yes. but you can harass 2 out of the 3 mineral lines from the low ground outside of their base in order to force an engagement or just do some economic damage. If it's a ramp down from the main to the in-base expansions it'll be even easier to harass them. Killing the rocks around the outside allows you to run away effectively after this type of harass.
I suspect that the 3p and how out of the way so many areas are allows for cheese, that the relatively short rush distance allows for early aggression, that the very short rush distance after the middle rocks go down (25 seconds instead of 50) enables mid-game aggression and a strong defensive position is necessary to compensate for this, while keeping harass options open.
I'm considering moving the mineral lines in the two in-base expansions right up against the edge so that roaches and swarm hosts can attack workers, but this may not be necessary because of how common either hydras or mutas are.
I'm also thinking about making the 3rd spawn location in-base expansions into island expansions by placing indestructible rocks at the two chokes.
EDIT: You might actually see some colossi harass on this map, and tanks can be set up such that they have a long time to attack before the opponent reaches them.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dWpNGkU.jpg)
Newest WIP
Map size: 170 x 166
Thoughts?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XvY4WZS.jpg)
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