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The bases with one gas have half the amount of total minerals of a regular base to coincide with half of the vespene available. If you add up all the total resources it is equivalent to 16 total normal bases
Work In Progress Melee Maps - Page 215
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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin | ||
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MarcusRife
333 Posts
The bases with one gas have half the amount of total minerals of a regular base to coincide with half of the vespene available. If you add up all the total resources it is equivalent to 16 total normal bases | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq14191 Posts
On September 02 2019 10:08 MarcusRife wrote: Here is another work in progress I have. Any feedback would be appreciated. The bases with one gas have half the amount of total minerals of a regular base to coincide with half of the vespene available. If you add up all the total resources it is equivalent to 16 total normal bases The half bases are a pretty neat idea. I'd say that they're probably good for zerg overall since they can get more value out of building town halls than Protoss, and can get more use out of the fast gas mining than terran, but it's definitely something worth exploring. I'm not sure adding gold bases into the equation is a good idea though. Overall I think the map suffers from the pitfalls of reflect symmetry in that it results in players expanding very close to each other. If both players expand linearly the two third bases are a stone's throw away from each other which means that you won't see long games on it. Additionally the map lacks in open areas for engagements--everything's pretty choked up except in the areas where you added pillars where it's even more choked up. There's a few other things (the main is a bit too big unnecessarily, the two golds in the center are so hard to defend that they won't likely be taken, and the ramp leading to the linear third is so close that it makes it hard to defend), but getting more open areas and making sure the distances 'work' between the two players are the two big ones. Maybe make the map rotationally symmetric instead since that would simplify things. | ||
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MarcusRife
333 Posts
On September 02 2019 10:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The half bases are a pretty neat idea. I'd say that they're probably good for zerg overall since they can get more value out of building town halls than Protoss, and can get more use out of the fast gas mining than terran, but it's definitely something worth exploring. I'm not sure adding gold bases into the equation is a good idea though. Overall I think the map suffers from the pitfalls of reflect symmetry in that it results in players expanding very close to each other. If both players expand linearly the two third bases are a stone's throw away from each other which means that you won't see long games on it. Additionally the map lacks in open areas for engagements--everything's pretty choked up except in the areas where you added pillars where it's even more choked up. There's a few other things (the main is a bit too big unnecessarily, the two golds in the center are so hard to defend that they won't likely be taken, and the ramp leading to the linear third is so close that it makes it hard to defend), but getting more open areas and making sure the distances 'work' between the two players are the two big ones. Maybe make the map rotationally symmetric instead since that would simplify things. I am glad you like the half bases in principle as it is core to the concept. I must argue though that the diagonal symmetry is core to concept as well. I have played with rotational symmetry for this concept and it works better this way in my opinion. This map is fairly large. It is 140x140. I don't think it runs into a problem of expanding too close when compared to recent rotational symmetry maps. Your point is taken about the main size. I trimmed it down again. It used to be smaller but it grew when making other adjustments and I didn't notice how big it had become. Here are some pathing measurements of this map compared with New Repugnancy with the rocks removed as given by the measurement tool. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/RH8w8Dt.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/1CG6xFD.jpg) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/BfilD9x.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/a2tGrnl.jpg) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/bR6Uz04.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6zPTBJw.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/EfrYRRT.jpg) I don't know that I agree about the gold bases being too close. As the measurements show the forward bases on New Repugnancy are just as close or closer. As far as the open spaces, that is easily tunable. There is plenty of space available. I also don't want too much space. The half bases generally are not great in the early to mid-game. The golds can be in the very early game if it is your third or before but otherwise a fully saturated gold only provides 5% more than a fully saturated regular base since there are only six patches. The intent is they are placed so they would have to be at least your fourth. Additionally, they are going to run out very fast since they only have 900 minerals. The half bases are great for late game because you can have a similar income to a full base but do it with less workers and total worker count is important to balance with the army in late game. A purple vespene geyser allows you to have 75% of the gas income for half the number of workers. Those with blue minerals will provide 75% of the mineral income for 75% of the workers but the gold half bases will provide 105% of the mineral income for 75% of the workers. The double high yield gas bases will provide 150% of the gas income for the same amount of workers. The aim here is to have a somewhat standard 4 to 5 bases set up and the half bases come into play after that. I envision it not being game breaking and hopefully provide for interesting strategies in the later mid to late game. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq14191 Posts
On September 02 2019 18:33 MarcusRife wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2019 10:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The half bases are a pretty neat idea. I'd say that they're probably good for zerg overall since they can get more value out of building town halls than Protoss, and can get more use out of the fast gas mining than terran, but it's definitely something worth exploring. I'm not sure adding gold bases into the equation is a good idea though. Overall I think the map suffers from the pitfalls of reflect symmetry in that it results in players expanding very close to each other. If both players expand linearly the two third bases are a stone's throw away from each other which means that you won't see long games on it. Additionally the map lacks in open areas for engagements--everything's pretty choked up except in the areas where you added pillars where it's even more choked up. There's a few other things (the main is a bit too big unnecessarily, the two golds in the center are so hard to defend that they won't likely be taken, and the ramp leading to the linear third is so close that it makes it hard to defend), but getting more open areas and making sure the distances 'work' between the two players are the two big ones. Maybe make the map rotationally symmetric instead since that would simplify things. I am glad you like the half bases in principle as it is core to the concept. I must argue though that the diagonal symmetry is core to concept as well. I have played with rotational symmetry for this concept and it works better this way in my opinion. This map is fairly large. It is 140x140. I don't think it runs into a problem of expanding too close when compared to recent rotational symmetry maps. Your point is taken about the main size. I trimmed it down again. It used to be smaller but it grew when making other adjustments and I didn't notice how big it had become. Here are some pathing measurements of this map compared with New Repugnancy with the rocks removed as given by the measurement tool. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + I don't know that I agree about the gold bases being too close. As the measurements show the forward bases on New Repugnancy are just as close or closer. As far as the open spaces, that is easily tunable. There is plenty of space available. I also don't want too much space. The half bases generally are not great in the early to mid-game. The golds can be in the very early game if it is your third or before but otherwise a fully saturated gold only provides 5% more than a fully saturated regular base since there are only six patches. The intent is they are placed so they would have to be at least your fourth. Additionally, they are going to run out very fast since they only have 900 minerals. The half bases are great for late game because you can have a similar income to a full base but do it with less workers and total worker count is important to balance with the army in late game. A purple vespene geyser allows you to have 75% of the gas income for half the number of workers. Those with blue minerals will provide 75% of the mineral income for 75% of the workers but the gold half bases will provide 105% of the mineral income for 75% of the workers. The double high yield gas bases will provide 150% of the gas income for the same amount of workers. The aim here is to have a somewhat standard 4 to 5 bases set up and the half bases come into play after that. I envision it not being game breaking and hopefully provide for interesting strategies in the later mid to late game. 70 linear third to linear third is too close especially considering the highground with the ramp leading into the third. The gold bases (which you didn't measure town hall to town hall) are different from the lowground base on New Repugnancy because you can push straight towards it (instead of having to go through the top or bottom path), and the terrain is generally more favourable to the attacker. Also high yield gas is 8 gas per trip (it used to be 6), so it's 200% income not 150%. | ||
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alephnaut
16 Posts
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MarcusRife
333 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/pBFKE5N.jpg) The distance between forward bases with the rocks down on New Repugnancy is 71. Here it is shorter on the short path but it is incredibly choked off. You can only send small amounts of units. The "normal path" is further. I could always close the short gap but was just trying something. | ||
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