Love it Fatam. Agree with the Rock Tower by the 1x ramp. I'd also move the low-ground at 8 oclock a hex or two closer to the main.
Unrelated, I've been doodling some large maps with some varied inspiration. This one's Byzantine.
Stacked eggs separating the golds from the center. Black highgrounds are unpathable
Gold naturals shouldn't be a thing.
Good thing they're thirds then, eh?
Just because you want them to be thirds doesn't mean people will take them as thirds.
I mean, you can try but they'd be pretty damn exposed for naturals.
If I understand correctly, because of eggs they are accessible by army by land from main only? And I can siege tanks in the main to protect mineral lines from harassment. Best terran natural ever. Probably also good as protoss at least vs Z.
Uh... No. Because of the eggs the path is closed and difficult to attack into with a ground army, but easy to open with units that do splash damage and spell damage (e.g, Hellions would open it faster than Marines despite doing lower DPS).
They're destructible rocks that are easier to open with splash/spells than they are with building a large deathball army. That's it. I used eggs instead of rocks here because I felt that if the path was too hard to open, the map would just be whoever can turtle to an army that can attack up the rocks on 3 bases faster. With eggs, small forces can open the path reasonably quickly, making expanding around the map more important.
You can attack the mineral line/gas from the bases on the sides, or from the low ground in the middle. It's right up against the cliff, and units in the main are too far away to attack all the way over the base unless they're Tempests. That's why it's exposed.
It would be worst as a natural in TvZ because of Ravagers. Slightly better, but not by much in TvT. ZvZ forget it, ZvT they might take it quickly but I suspect most Zergs would try to grab the outside third first and then back up to take that as the fourth. In Protoss matchups, Disruptors are the cheapest thing to try and get through with, so you might see it taken as a natural in PvP or if you're a T or Z playing P.
You would never, ever take that as a natural playing vs. Zerg unless you like losing quickly.
Well, to maintain that backdoor path that area has to be either highground or lowground (unless I want to make a doodad wall where the cliff is, then I suppose I could make it the same level). I chose lowground because it's far away from the opponent so this way it's a touch more vulnerable. Probably doesn't matter too much though since the cliff is fairly far away from the nat town hall.
What do you think? Not so sure yet about the 12/6 o'clock bases and the xelnaga tower
I'm not fond of the 12 and 6 o'clock bases. They feel too out of the way from everything else, and are also shaped really awkwardly. The collapsible rock towers in the middle are cool, but the middle of the map could be more open. The watchtowers aren't problematic but don't add much to the map I think. There's some interesting stuff with the middle low ground bases, but overrall the map needs more work.
On June 09 2016 07:12 VasantVK wrote:
Hi, this is my first map. I would like some opinions on it. Thank you!
Welcome to mapmaking! First of all in general you should avoid horizontal and vertical ramps (since they're much shorter than normal diagonal ramps). You need a very compelling reason to use them. Also backdoors to the main are really hard to implement well since having two attack paths to the main can be problematic balance-wise (also people in general really dislike them after TLMC6 where nearly all the finalists had them). The watchtowers cover way too much important terrain, and controlling them gives too much information. Additionally the map's flow is poor. The holes in the map feel very random, and when you are travelling from base to base you can never get there in a nice path instead you have to go around nooks and crannies. You should strive for a layout that eases travel between bases.
What do you think? Not so sure yet about the 12/6 o'clock bases and the xelnaga tower
I'm not fond of the 12 and 6 o'clock bases. They feel too out of the way from everything else, and are also shaped really awkwardly. The collapsible rock towers in the middle are cool, but the middle of the map could be more open. The watchtowers aren't problematic but don't add much to the map I think. There's some interesting stuff with the middle low ground bases, but overrall the map needs more work.
Thanks for the feedback!
The current iteration. Watchtowers can view over both, the big middle ramp and the path to the 12:30/6:30 bases. It plays out better than before, but still not entirely happy with the gold base area. For the moment I am out of time and ideas, but will continue the work
Hello, my name is Hellpoo and i would like to make 1v1 and 2v2 melee ladder maps (well i just want to try . I made my first map yesterday. I am looking for feedback right now. My map is called Area 69 (kappa) and i think it has very unique layout. Please, tell me which parts of my map you hate, so i can learn from my mistakes and make a better map hopefully :D Oh and by the way, those flashy lights are not that bright ingame, it is just weird when i zoom out Thanks a lot.
On June 16 2016 02:45 Hellpoo wrote: Hello, my name is Hellpoo and i would like to make 1v1 and 2v2 melee ladder maps (well i just want to try . I made my first map yesterday. I am looking for feedback right now. My map is called Area 69 (kappa) and i think it has very unique layout. Please, tell me which parts of my map you hate, so i can learn from my mistakes and make a better map hopefully :D Oh and by the way, those flashy lights are not that bright ingame, it is just weird when i zoom out Thanks a lot.
Splitting this map is way too easy. Everything has to go through one of the two narrow passages, and you can easily secure seven bases behind that. Additionally the use of space is poor--there's random pockets of empty space all over the map. If you look at maps on ladder for example, or maps made by experienced mapmakers there's very little dead space on the map--unless there's a good reason for that dead space. Apart from that the layout isn't very interesting. Too many of the bases just have one ramp leading to it and are otherwise featureless, and everything just leads to the middle.
Could you post a 90 degree image of the map (or something close to it)?
First map is Neo Seoul. Supposed to be a large 2p macro map with lots of different attack paths and expansion options. Main issue that I come across is making it so the highground third near the main is desirable enough to take. Haven't found a good solution yet. Size is 156x156.
Second map is based off of KSS with the working name Vjun Junkyard. Similar idea with lots of attack paths and expansion options, in hindsight might borrow from Moonlight Madness. Size is 146x146.
I like Vjun Junkyard quite a bit (though I'll need a pronunciation guide since even the Star Wars wiki gives multiple possibilities)! I think the double-edged collapsible rocks are really well implemented on this map (much better than on Shiva or Apotheosis), since it really influences the choice of third--for example as Zerg especially against Terran it makes the outer third base a lot more attractive. Also the bases in the middle feel really pivotal which is good, and makes it stand apart from other maps with similar concepts (Cassiopeia by xenotolerance comes to mind).
There's two things that worry me about the map. Firstly, liberator usage can be pretty oppressive on King Sejong against zerg, and with the same sort of natural setup, and both potential thirds having the mineral lines stick very close to the edge means Vjun could have the same problem. Since both potential thirds are much closer than Sejong's it probably isn't as much of a problem, but still worrysome. Secondly the outer paths are very cool, but I don't think they'll be used often. I guess most players will break down the rocks next to the third to help defend against tank drops on the ridges, but probably won't use the passage at all until they need a sixth base or something.
As for Neo Seoul, I'm not fond of it at all. As you've mentioned the high ground third isn't very attractive, and the third above/below the natural isn't particularly easy to take either. I'm not sure when if ever the middle golds are supposed to be taken, and the middle of the map doesn't seem like it has a unifying idea. The outlying bases seem vaguely strewn about the edge in a way that reminds me of Blizzard 2v2 maps. Not one of your better maps.
I'd say vjun is clearly the stronger map at this point. But things can change of course
I like seoul's main-nat-third setup a good bit (kind of a slight variation on entombed valley's setup, which was one of the more interesting ones back in the day, but it gives zerg another option for a 3rd so they don't get screwed as hard by the rocks), and the center highgrounds seem solid, but I'm not with the other areas of the map.
On June 25 2016 14:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote: (though I'll need a pronunciation guide since even the Star Wars wiki gives multiple possibilities)
(40 second mark if it doesn't automatically take you there)
On June 25 2016 14:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote: and both potential thirds having the mineral lines stick very close to the edge means Vjun could have the same problem. Since both potential thirds are much closer than Sejong's it probably isn't as much of a problem, but still worrysome.
That can be changed pretty easily. I pulled the natural forward already a cell to make up for this, there also isn't a highground area to park a liberator in a broken manner in that area. Thirds will be interesting, as you said the distance is a factor that might make it easier to handle.
On June 25 2016 14:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Secondly the outer paths are very cool, but I don't think they'll be used often. I guess most players will break down the rocks next to the third to help defend against tank drops on the ridges, but probably won't use the passage at all until they need a sixth base or something.
The rocks ended up being there because it was too easy to just walk around and flank. Using these paths means you have to commit through at least two sets of rocks. Not having them makes these paths incredibly broken, as they all connect to two entrances in the natural.
On June 25 2016 14:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote: As for Neo Seoul, I'm not fond of it at all. As you've mentioned the high ground third isn't very attractive, and the third above/below the natural isn't particularly easy to take either. I'm not sure when if ever the middle golds are supposed to be taken, and the middle of the map doesn't seem like it has a unifying idea. The outlying bases seem vaguely strewn about the edge in a way that reminds me of Blizzard 2v2 maps. Not one of your better maps.
On June 25 2016 19:34 Fatam wrote: I'd say vjun is clearly the stronger map at this point. But things can change of course
I like seoul's main-nat-third setup a good bit (kind of a slight variation on entombed valley's setup, which was one of the more interesting ones back in the day, but it gives zerg another option for a 3rd so they don't get screwed as hard by the rocks), and the center highgrounds seem solid, but I'm not with the other areas of the map.
Most of the issues seem to carry on it being slightly too big. Those I asked quite liked the center and the different pathways, but struggled to find an appeal of the highground third. Might need some heavy re-working. Else, I completely agree.
On June 27 2016 15:32 -NegativeZero- wrote: 3rds on neo seoul look pretty far in both directions
This. Maybe the solution here is to highlight the options even more by emphasizing them.
The "normal" (righthand) 3rd base is a bit far away, although it is a big map and the space looks reasonably defensible. Next to it is a relatively rather close 4th base that really only adds a bit more openness and a XNT to fight over. I think this expansion pattern should focus on more distant 3rd base with a very close 4th base.
The plateau (lefthand) 3rd is just pointless right now compared to standard maps, although it looks usable here because the other option is vulnerably far away and players would go for the "need to break rocks" tradeoff. Even so, I would make it even closer / easier to defend (when the rocks are destroyed). This expansion pattern will focus on easy to defend but blocked by rocks 3rd base with a normal choice of 4th base".
To reiterate, the interesting choice here comes from the fact that the 4th base on the righthand option needs to be easy enough that it's very attractive for a player planning for a longer game and willing to roll with the farther 3rd base. Even an aggressive strategy might be good here to keep the ball on the other side of the field while you steam through a trade-heavy midgame and take an easy 4th base at home.
Apart from that the map just looks big and normal, a little resource / CS heavy. I kind of tune out when i'm looking over it. That's fine though.
Neo Seoul is set up largely like Entombed Valley, which would have been fine in HotS, but isn't inviting enough by LotV standards. Otherwise, I don't really see what makes it stand out, or why the gold bases would be impactful. If you fix the 3rd base issue, it's not a bad map, but I don't think it's an amazing map either.
Vjun Junkyard looks interesting at first glance, but as I continue to look at it it just appears to have a feature overload. It starts by reinterpreting Sejong Station, which is a questionable decision in the first place, with how much LotV changed from HotS, and then it just runs off in so many directions with its different features. The double rock tower on the natural ramp looks really cute, and in a properly put-together map it can be a really pivotal feature, but I just don't get why this map has them. Immediately beyond the towers lies my third base, realistically speaking, because look at how well it will be defended, my opponent will have to destroy at least 2 rocks to even make a pass at attacking it, so I just don't see a scenario where the cooling towers will come into play, other than knocking them down and destroying them myself, before my opponent gets to use them.
In general, the corner area of the map has far too many rocks to see any kind of early use, you can get an easy enough 5 bases without having to interact with any of them. And this assumes the game reaches that phase, with the aggressive orientation of the natural vs. all the harassment options available. There's a preponderance of airspace that accounts for Siege Tanks, when I think there's more imminent balance concerns that come from that design. Honestly speaking, I think the Sejong-style reverse base is more suited to being the 3rd base in LotV, and while I like the look of the ramp with the 2 towers, the map doesn't do much to really play off of it, they're just sort of there. It has a lot of the style Sejong Station has, but it has none of the cohesion. I'd say take another pass at the idea.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T0BGxl0.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ficnNky.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/c9sOFWE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Fugbga5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sGM1Cj7.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6XGoj8J.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://s31.postimg.org/e4bsy45ob/Terrain_002.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YNzvUVm.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FDRF3vI.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fx7l3xU.png)
