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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
On December 23 2014 10:04 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2014 13:06 Xenotolerance wrote:
I'd be worried about walling off in time to stop a 10-pool. I think all races can get by without a finished wall against a 10pool. Protoss gateway expands often go without a wall, Terran reaper expands don't have the wall up when 10pool arrives and I'm not sure emergency walling is needed. Though given that you may lose the depot at the front, it may be just clever to not start the wall at the ramp and just do a reaper+scout, then take the natural and break down the rocks with 2marines from the reactor after 1reaper and successively wall the ramp with depots/bunker. Given how super-bulletproof the main-natural setup is once the rocks are down, I wouldn't be surprised if the setup would work in P&T's favor against Zerg.
True enough. Plus, zerg could use the benefit of early aggression if the setup really does work against them.
update:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CkqdU1i.png)
now 148x148, nat to nat 48, plus the analyzer looks pretty sick
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5lEoi4f.png) where's the analyzer art thread amirite
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I like it more than the previous versions
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On December 23 2014 10:04 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2014 13:06 Xenotolerance wrote:
I'd be worried about walling off in time to stop a 10-pool. I think all races can get by without a finished wall against a 10pool. Protoss gateway expands often go without a wall, Terran reaper expands don't have the wall up when 10pool arrives and I'm not sure emergency walling is needed. Though given that you may lose the depot at the front, it may be just clever to not start the wall at the ramp and just do a reaper+scout, then take the natural and break down the rocks with 2marines from the reactor after 1reaper and successively wall the ramp with depots/bunker. Given how super-bulletproof the main-natural setup is once the rocks are down, I wouldn't be surprised if the setup would work in P&T's favor against Zerg.
That was my original idea when designing this : making the early game is ZvP/T interesting (but maybe a bit too gamble :/ ) with a quite open setup, but I also wanted to give options to the T and P to be able to expand without being in a completely dangerous position, hence the collapsible tower. Zergs can also work on destroying the left rocks leading to the fourth as soon as they see the collapsible being... collapsed.
I just noticed the first and second pictures don't have the same ramps, due to two different screenshots. The one i want to use is the one of the first picture, but I guess everybody got it ^.^
On December 23 2014 02:17 JaredStarr wrote:
If you throw down destructible debris beside the cooling tower it might work out.
The 3 and 9 bases and their connecting bases look kinda weird. The map also feels a little choked out in a couple spots. Be aware, forcing the players to go through one area to cross the map is difficult to make it work fairly but if you can make it work then do it.
The theme looks wicked. I would love to see the map get completed just to see the themes end result :p
What do you mean by beside ? In the gap between high unpathable ground and rock tower ?
Thanks for the theme, i'll be posting some more shots when i'm back home  Layout was just a rough one, it has changed quite a bit from there. Definitely motivating feedback.
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Sorry I mean between the cooling tower and main base wall to totally seal off the nat. But based off the previous comments it might not be necessary. I'm just gonna throw this out there, maybe move the debris between the Nat and 3rd to where I'm talking about between the cooling tower, it would make it more difficult to harass both main ramps requiring the attacker to either run around or to invest time destroying debris to harass both ramps properly.
Will be back later to upload a new wip. Will take any comments on the latest update of Anxiety Arena.
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![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/bff2b1ef55d94b14ae9f08b5934d8714.jpg)
Playable size: 108x168
Rush: 60 Seconds
Feature: Designed to force most of the buildings to be placed in a space between the main and nat.
Want try to make a pretty small map work out. Middle bases are still in very rough condition, will probably be pushing them 'out' further (hence the little wings at 3 and 9). My biggest concern is creep spread dominating the map, felt the destructible debris can help T&P.
Edit: There are Xelnagas in nat.
@STK: The main ramp is pretty far away from the town centre.
Edit: *Changes made, pic updated*
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Those mineral lines won't produce normal mining rates.
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your Country52798 Posts
Oh yeah, I agree with TheFish7 here. You can't have mineral lines with mineral patches completely behind other ones, that will screw up 3 base play. Natural mineral lines look weird too, not sure about mains (please post an unrotated image ;_;)
Uvantak posted an image of correct mineral lines a while back.
+ Show Spoiler +
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So this is a map i am currently working on. The textures and doodads arent finished and the layout is still going through balance testing. I just want to know what you guys think about it so far. The area behind the nat is undroppable and also the areas that look out of the way are unpathable.
Playable 100x148
Currently under the name : Scarred Path (NA)
Over-head View
+ Show Spoiler +
60 Degree View
+ Show Spoiler +
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your Country52798 Posts
On December 20 2014 02:00 The_Templar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Size is 144x160. Thoughts?
Still working on this.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Bzf3DSd.png)
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On December 27 2014 13:52 The_Templar wrote:Oh yeah, I agree with TheFish7 here. You can't have mineral lines with mineral patches completely behind other ones, that will screw up 3 base play. Natural mineral lines look weird too, not sure about mains (please post an unrotated image ;_;) Uvantak posted an image of correct mineral lines a while back. + Show Spoiler +
That's an older pic, sunshine (or was it negative?) pointed out the top and bottom mineral lines could be improved by adding more spaces, so we ended up with this:
Also there is still discussion about the gaps, for example you can see that the mineral lines are not symmetrical, and in one of the sides on the dieagonal mineral lines is easier to do worker pairing than in the other, Etcetra likes to use fully symmetrical mineral lines to fix this, the issue with those is that they create inefficiencies on the farthest vespene geyser.
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I've seen those mineral guidelines in all corners of the internet, I like to try break away from typical and still keep it practical. The main has 4 far and 4 close patches if that makes any difference, the other bases have straight mineral lines (totally cosmetic). Is it a big deal? It does create inefficiency but not imbalance.
The in base xnt are cool? I was thinking of taking them out and putting one in the center high ground to prevent base trades.
I'll edit this post with an updated pic in a few hours.
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@REALRetro : I like the concept, but I'm not sure how well it would play out. My main concerns here are the lack of a non-forward fourth (with the current layout I fear for it being too hard to take in ZvT) and possibly the forward third - opponent's natural distance.
@The_Templar : It feels a bit better, I don't like how the gold is a fully viable third though. And I dislike the natural entrance, it's horrible for Zergs and narrow ramps make attacking into the natural too hard and not worth the cost. Maybe try something like Bel'shir Vestige? (narrower choke at the nat to allow for easy Zerg walls + wider ramps leading to the area in front of the nat)
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your Country52798 Posts
On December 28 2014 02:49 OtherWorld wrote:
@The_Templar : It feels a bit better, I don't like how the gold is a fully viable third though. And I dislike the natural entrance, it's horrible for Zergs and narrow ramps make attacking into the natural too hard and not worth the cost. Maybe try something like Bel'shir Vestige? (narrower choke at the nat to allow for easy Zerg walls + wider ramps leading to the area in front of the nat)
I fail to see why the natural entrance is bad for zerg. The ramps are 2x width which has been used before in perfect good maps.
If it's a problem, I could just connect the natural expansion to the nearby same elevation area. Something like this: + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yYUHTi1.png) (this also moves the gold base further away, but I can do just that if needed)
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On December 28 2014 02:49 OtherWorld wrote:
@REALRetro : I like the concept, but I'm not sure how well it would play out. My main concerns here are the lack of a non-forward fourth (with the current layout I fear for it being too hard to take in ZvT) and possibly the forward third - opponent's natural distance.
Can you explain how there is no forward fourth. I feel like it is pretty easy to go to 4 bases on this map because they are pretty close to each other.
Also I am messing around with the middle a bit. Should i keep it the same or should I change it to something like this?
+ Show Spoiler +
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your Country52798 Posts
He said non-forward fourth, meaning any fourth base you take is much closer to the opponent.
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On December 28 2014 04:21 REALRetrO wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 02:49 OtherWorld wrote:
@REALRetro : I like the concept, but I'm not sure how well it would play out. My main concerns here are the lack of a non-forward fourth (with the current layout I fear for it being too hard to take in ZvT) and possibly the forward third - opponent's natural distance.
Can you explain how there is no forward fourth. I feel like it is pretty easy to go to 4 bases on this map because they are pretty close to each other. Also I am messing around with the middle a bit. Should i keep it the same or should I change it to something like this? + Show Spoiler +
map overal is not wide enough relative to length, split is it easy.
3rd is about as free as nimbus, which was one of the bad things about that map, this one even has rocks blocking the backdoor.
4th is very easy, and you barely have to reposition army, protecting 4bases from a single point is bad, see deadwing.
overal pathways, especialy the middle, are not that wide and very choky.
overal, way to many bases over way to little terrain.
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On December 28 2014 04:12 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2014 02:49 OtherWorld wrote:
@The_Templar : It feels a bit better, I don't like how the gold is a fully viable third though. And I dislike the natural entrance, it's horrible for Zergs and narrow ramps make attacking into the natural too hard and not worth the cost. Maybe try something like Bel'shir Vestige? (narrower choke at the nat to allow for easy Zerg walls + wider ramps leading to the area in front of the nat) I fail to see why the natural entrance is bad for zerg. The ramps are 2x width which has been used before in perfect good maps. If it's a problem, I could just connect the natural expansion to the nearby same elevation area. Something like this: + Show Spoiler +(this also moves the gold base further away, but I can do just that if needed)
I don't think the two ramps are in range of the natural hatchery's creep, which is mostly a pain in ZvZ. The narrow ramps almost kill any attempt at an early-midgame attack (something along the lines of your standard ZvT roach/bane aggression) from the Zerg, because of the low count of Zerg units that can attack at the same time. Maybe I'm misjudging the width of the ramps and how it would affect the game though.
I like the idea in your pic, it fixes the two problems.
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![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/24cac267b0ecbde94d834dc5b325a715.jpg)
Another:
+ Show Spoiler +
- 108x168
- 60 sec Main to Main
- Very easy 4 base play.
- Ignore the mineral lines, they're easy to fix if it is an issue.
- One image has XNT in base and the other image has XNT in the center of map.
Edit: typo
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XDYygjB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kfgCxiD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/frU43QH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CEq0Ps2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qcR2kZs.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MSXSNhC.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/COOVvAo.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GQTmvgu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2rPE7Yu.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/3c15466f191f86af2ab9bdcd913f87e7.jpg)
