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United States10149 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:17 Ragoo wrote:
Btw this may be obvious but if you're an amateur you should really focus a lot on the overall idea and layout of the map more than detailed execution or aesthetics for maps you submit. Aesthetics and those details in balance can always be fixed, but if the map is just plain boring or a really bad idea that's a lot harder to work with.
Completely agree. A map is terrible if it has no sense of balance or layout. aesthetics can easily be fixed.
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On June 22 2012 22:17 chuky500 wrote:
I get it about the map being corrected but the problem is the pro will get the amateur's money ! And this is even truer if the map has quality in the first place, so pro mappers will be able to tell. To sum up you're giving away money for a betting competition. As you said even the highest level maps aren't perfect so you could have a contest the other way around : a noname would pick a pro's map, give him some advice and earn as much money as the pro for the map the pro made.
If you want to be fair give all the money to the amateur since it's his own work and the pro is a pro so he doesn't need the money anyways.
Yeah because mappers be rolling in bitches and dollars!
Oh wait....
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On June 22 2012 22:17 chuky500 wrote:
I get it about the map being corrected but the problem is the pro will get the amateur's money ! And this is even truer if the map has quality in the first place, so pro mappers will be able to tell. To sum up you're giving away money for a betting competition. As you said even the highest level maps aren't perfect so you could have a contest the other way around : a noname would pick a pro's map, give him some advice and earn as much money as the pro for the map the pro made.
If you want to be fair give all the money to the amateur since it's his own work and the pro is a pro so he doesn't need the money anyways.
Can I be bluntly honest with you? We make a whopping $0
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I really like this initiative and idea, even though I feel like the name is slightly off, as well as that the pro-list is very long. Once is nonce, two times is two too many, and three times is tradition. hmm, It doesn't translate too well but I hope you get the gist.
Regardless, I will try to submit a couple of maps with what I think are decent concepts. Unless I continue to play D3 too much heh.
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Ragoo, how do you become a "map maker"
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On June 24 2012 20:06 Kbafewx wrote:
Ragoo, how do you become a "map maker"
Well become a world class mapmaker is a hard task to achieve so I will give you some guidance.
Step 1 Make sure you are a big SC2 fan but you prefer SC:BW because everything Blizzard does nowadays is utter shit. You need to hate Blizzard with all your heart and constantly remind everyone around you how much better SC2 could be if they weren't such sellouts and suck Activisions cock.
Also you need to flame every tournament in its thread if their map pool has more than 2 Blizzard maps, you need to bitch every time Blizzard releases new maps for ladder and you need to whine in random Bnet channels about how Daybreak's half base was so much better.
Step 2 : Make sure you have no self respect whatsoever. As a melee mapmaker you are the lowest tier of idiots that are related to SC2 and you are reminded of that constantly. Don't expect to ever get any kind of recognition outside of the 50 people who come to the TL mapmaking forum and don't expect anyone to ever know your name, even in the very unlikely case that your map gets added to ladder. Hell, I hear people misspell ESV half the time and they are the best mapmaking team!
Also don't expect Blizzard to ever do something for you, they'd rather see their own atrocious shitmaps in ladder than supporting the community to do maps properly.+ Show Spoiler +In case I get hate cos Blizzard kinda supported us with TLMC. Bah, that's not recognizing how important mapmaking is for the game and how much they themselves suck at it. That's merely responding to a lot of community complaints. Enjoy your Blizzard maps in HotS!
Step 3 Be sure not to have a real life cause everyone who has something worthy to do in life wouldn't choose to waste his time with SC2 mapmaking, cos the maps simply don't get anywhere.
Step 4 You need to watch SC2 a lot and you need to think about it a lot. You don't necessarily need to play a lot. It would help but you need to understand the bigger picture and you can get that from watching and thinking about the design of SC2.
You need to understand the basic standards of SC2 maps. That means 8m2g mains, the main needs to have a certain size so you can build production, there needs to be some kind of easily to get and defend natural, the map should at least have 10 bases and so on. Just look at many maps both by Blizzard and from the mapmaking teams here and you will understand what all the maps have in common.
You need to have good ideas and good ideas can't always be forced. If you want to start a new map you either have a general idea for a certain playstyle you want to promote or a certain element of the game you want to highlight (like air harrass). Or you can think about some cool way to do say the first 3 bases and then you make a map around that.
Once youre finished with layout and made sure it's playable, make a map thread here and get feedback and adjust according to it. You don't need to take every bit of feedback seriously. In fact most of the feedback is total bullshit. But read everything and think about it. Some people will always have something valueable to say, those are mostly the mapmakers from ESV and TPW, but also some other guys. You will know who knows his shit after a while.
If you do aesthetics take your fucking time. So many maps that are "finished" that I see posted here have shit aesthetics not because people are too dumb to do it but because they invest like no time at all to do it.
If you really want to get some serious mapmaking done you need to find some way to communicate regularly with other mapmakers in chat and exchange feedback and thoughts. That either means meeting them in something like the Skype channel for mapmakers or you join a team.
Step 5 Pray every goddamn night for a new TLMC, cos it's the only way our maps will ever get anywhere in this bullshit community.
Hope I could help you out.
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Wow Ragoo, thought you were trolling at the start, but are you OK dude? you sound super mad, frustrated and depressed :S map making is cool, and even though most of the maps wont get played by people that are not your friends it is still fun to make them. Think of map making as an art that doesn't last, like sand art, or ice / snow sculpting, its really fun to do and you give from your self alot, but it doesn't last and unless your lucky or the top artist most people wont see your creation before it gets destroyed / melts / lost.
By the way, aesthetics do take along time to make, and some people don't have that time, so they make the map look decent, but they skip the minor things, since it takes to much time to be worth it (most people don't care about how the map looks when they play it, unless it looks too horrible to play on).
I am guessing you are both trolling and talking serious at the same time, which is kinda confusing, but anyways I am sure some of step 4 would help new map makers 
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Uhm, If a map maker has submited 3 maps, before deadline, and realizes he wants to replace on of the 3, is that possible? And if so, how to do it?
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Ragoo: Raggin' out lol
and great way to kick off proam
while I agree with some of what you said; I think Moskonia's optimistic approach should be the way to actually answer...
I've been mapping in various communities for various games for years and was disappointed to not read the words Kbafewx needed to hear most: Love of the game and enjoyment of the practices.
Mapping is no less an art than anything else. recognition is amazing but just like all art it is very hard to obtain, the only way to advance is to persevere.
Some views in your post did make sense but all in all, cheer up 
"I find your lack of faith disturbing"
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and no guardian, after the deadline what you submit is final
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It's an art to some but for me it is a lot more practical.
For me this whole thing is about making both playing and watching the game more enjoyable. So the only thing I REALLY care about is the quality of the maps that get into tournaments and ladder. How it happens I don't mind, if it's Kespa monopoly again in SC2 I don't care, as long as they make the absolute best maps for me to enjoy watching SC2.
I'm only in this because I want to make a contribution and help as long as we didn't reach a healthy map rotation and certain quality standard for map, similar to what BW had.
Maybe if you consider this, you understand why I am so frustrated with SC2 mapmaking and maps.
+ Show Spoiler +btw, does anyone understand why this guy asked ME how you can become a mapmaker? ^^
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You are very approachable
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Dead Canyon by ihasaKAROT
Playable bounds: 173x167
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xvGXE.jpg)
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On June 24 2012 22:25 Ragoo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +btw, does anyone understand why this guy asked ME how you can become a mapmaker? ^^
'Cause you're all of us' idol <3
Vote Ragoo 2012 !
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 24 2012 22:08 Guardian85 wrote:
Uhm, If a map maker has submited 3 maps, before deadline, and realizes he wants to replace on of the 3, is that possible? And if so, how to do it?
Just indicate which map is being replaced in an email with your new submissions.
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your Country52797 Posts
On June 25 2012 00:12 ihasaKAROT wrote:Dead Canyon by ihasaKAROTPlayable bounds: 173x167
Nice, but quite big :D
I really like the corner expansions actually, although some people might say that they are too narrow and long. (maybe not)
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No I get you ragoo, I feel the exact same way, but it's good to keep the ties with your art side.
I think this Proam thing is a great way for people with your outlook to ensure people with an only art outlook get pushed into the next stage, which takes a lot of personal devotion tbh.
I've made well over 50 maps by now and most of them are almost entirely shitty, but that first phase is passed now I believe, takes dedication and "love" of what I do to continue, and yes I also want the same things you do, with slightly personal goals involved...
anyways, back to Proam.
I've got a nice style of map we've not seen much of in the past that I hope will catch, Im currently in the process of grinding out specific details on the layout before I do anything else.
I think NewSunshine has a pretty solid submission too.
Glhf
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On June 25 2012 01:21 Broodie wrote:
No I get you ragoo, I feel the exact same way, but it's good to keep the ties with your art side.
I think this Proam thing is a great way for people with your outlook to ensure people with an only art outlook get pushed into the next stage, which takes a lot of personal devotion tbh.
I've made well over 50 maps by now and most of them are almost entirely shitty, but that first phase is passed now I believe, takes dedication and "love" of what I do to continue, and yes I also want the same things you do, with slightly personal goals involved...
anyways, back to Proam.
I've got a nice style of map we've not seen much of in the past that I hope will catch, Im currently in the process of grinding out specific details on the layout before I do anything else.
I think NewSunshine has a pretty solid submission too.
Glhf
Pssst. They're not supposed to know that! :p
But yeah, Raggin' out I think would describe it. I can understand the frustration Ragoo, but I think yours is a slightly wrong mindset. Mapmaking is supposed to be fun, that's why most of us do it. A team like ESV might do all they can to push the quality and publicity for their maps, but I'd still wager they have fun with it. Cherno looked like it was a lot of fun to make, personally, just as an example. And as for the rest of us, we make maps for fun. The thing to realize is that, at this stage, it's very unlikely that anything a mapmaker makes is going to go anywhere major, like the ladder, so it's best to either abandon those hopes, or just quit. Funcmode, for example, quit out of frustration. At one point, if you expect too much out of your maps, it becomes not worth it.
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United States10149 Posts
On June 25 2012 01:12 TehTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 00:12 ihasaKAROT wrote:Dead Canyon by ihasaKAROTPlayable bounds: 173x167 Nice, but quite big :D I really like the corner expansions actually, although some people might say that they are too narrow and long. (maybe not)
TehTemplar, this is what I'm talking about with your map about the third. I'll go into more in-depth back on your thread.
This map looks amazing. Please make a thread for this so I can spam the hell out of it.
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What mine or the templars?
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your Country52797 Posts
On June 25 2012 04:03 ihasaKAROT wrote:What mine or the templars?
I already made a map thread, so I would assume yours :p
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EPT
