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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On August 27 2012 04:52 MNdakota wrote: Why does Terran need these again..? I don't know, I think it was something about the engineering bay being low on upgrades. kabel wanted ideas for upgrades, thats all I needed to know. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On August 27 2012 04:48 Roblin wrote: dear community. what are your thoughts about these mostly building-related upgrade-ideas? local scanner: gives buildings +X sightrange engine propellant: increases the movement speed of flying buildings by X operation liftoff: allows buildings to liftoff and move. (not allowed without upgrade) increase sensor range: sensor tower detect range increases by X homing missiles: missile turret range is increased by X emergency repair nanobots: buildings no longer burn from being damaged. multi-target system: missile turrets can attack 2 units at the same time. SCV+: SCVs build buildings X% faster. armor plating: SCVs get +3 armor. reactor technology: allows the building of reactors (or a similar upgrade for techlabs? or maybe one for both?) I like the sensor tower range one, maybe an upgrade that mixes that and the turret range together for 100/100. | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
On August 27 2012 04:48 Roblin wrote: dear community. what are your thoughts about these mostly building-related upgrade-ideas? local scanner: gives buildings +X sightrange engine propellant: increases the movement speed of flying buildings by X operation liftoff: allows buildings to liftoff and move. (not allowed without upgrade) increase sensor range: sensor tower detect range increases by X homing missiles: missile turret range is increased by X emergency repair nanobots: buildings no longer burn from being damaged. multi-target system: missile turrets can attack 2 units at the same time. SCV+: SCVs build buildings X% faster. armor plating: SCVs get +3 armor. reactor technology: allows the building of reactors (or a similar upgrade for techlabs? or maybe one for both?) The ideas I'd be okay with Engine Propellant, Operation Liftoff, increase sensor range(visual change), Multi-Target system(visual change), reactor technology. I'm not taking balance or numbers into account as I feel you shouldn't when thinking about new ideas(unless super broken), but these upgrades would make some sense. Local scanner I simply dislike since that's more of the sensor towers job. Homing missiles might make you take damage before seeing the turret which wouldn't be very cool. If that's not the case then it might be okay but would require a visual change. Emergency repair might not be worth an upgrade, plus if it was provided and was cheap it would remove an element that separated terran from the other two races. SCV+ would be bad because it would be required and if made too late game it wouldn't be too useful. Armor plating would make it a gamble or hard to judge when harassing SCVs. You might take a risk to kill workers only to realize that your risk wasn't worth it because SCVs have extra defense that you didn't know about. I guess it would be okay if there was a visual change to the SCVs, in which case I would be okay with it. The price would have to be adjusted accordingly. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Don Pedro
Switzerland14 Posts
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Caas
Sweden51 Posts
terran simply has a very effective early mid game army.. and with mech.. oww.. btw... when i think of it.. i dont think i've seen mech used in a TvP matchup yet.. or have i ? hmm.. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Right now I have these two upgrades at the E-bay: Increase building armor by 2. (As in standard SC2) Bunkers get 200 more HP, 2 more marines can be loaded into it and it gets a new model. Would like a third upgrade. ... I have found a model to use as the building for Swarm Guardian.. "Swarm nest" ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jOqbE.jpg) Swarm Guardians can now get their own tech building. Right now the require Hive, Infestation Pit & Spire or Greater spire. ... I will also scrap the Nydus idea I added. Maybe it could have been balanced to actually be useful and interesting. But I will remove it for the fact that people are familiar with the Nydus. When people play with the new concept they try to load units into it. And when the enemy sees it, they think its an ordinary nydus. By giving it a new role while it still looks the same way, it just adds confusion. >>>If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck then it gotta be a duck.<<< I am either gonna scrap the nydus completely or just add it back as it is in SC2 and stop whining about it.. ... I will not add an upgrade that gives burrowed lurkers +2 that I have proposed earlier. Its an upgrade that has a big impact on the game and I will try to be careful with adding such stuff. Instead I listened to Dankos proposal by increasing the AoE a tiny bit and increased the acceleration of the lurker spikes. Gonna see if this makes Lurkers better, cause they do feel very weak, especially vs Protoss. ... Hydras also feel very weak vs Protoss. Some Zerg players protest by not building hydras at all ^^ I will not do anything yet, but I might increase the attack speed a tiny bit, since I have nerfed it earlier. (Before they were extremely good. Hydras could just A-move into anything) ... I still would like to replace the Frenzy spell for Swarm Guardian. I think it overlaps with Plague. Both deal damage, just in different ways. And it is a boring spell too.. Possible areas to have a spell in: - A snipe spell.. Target any ground unit and a Nydus Worm model pops up and swallows it..  - AoE-spell.. Target an area, a nydus worms start to tremble the ground for 5 seconds.. when it pops up it kills all enemy units that stands on it.. (I love the dramatic nydus animation appearing in the middle of combat :D ) - Something with Contaminate.. Freeze any building for X seconds? That will however make you able to freeze Turrets & cannons, thus making your Doom drops even stronger.. thats the reason to have Brood Lord, to be able to destroy turrets from a distance before you send in the overlords.. - A spell that creates free units. Nothing in the game, except brood lords, does that. And Brood Lords now actually have a normal missile. Their attack adds a buff on an enemy unit. If that unit dies within 5 seconds, two broodlings are spawned from it. (The normal broodling attack were messing up the reaver AI so badly.). - A spell that is only castable on creep, thus it makes Overlords generate creep more important, since that works as possible areas to cast it in. - A twist on the Brood War parasite spell for Queens. Maybe an AoE-spell that gives units in an area a permanent buff.. If they die when this buff is on, something spawns from them, they explode or whatever... This is just random ideas. The most important aspect is to find something useful for Zerg. What can the Swarm Gurdian have that is useful? ... Just to clearify, this is not an uploaded patch yet. This is stuff I am adding or considering add to the new patch. It also contains some bug fixes etc. I will get the patch up soon, but I have some busy days coming up. | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On August 28 2012 02:14 Kabel wrote: Would like a third upgrade. Don't know. Don't need it. I have found a model to use as the building for Swarm Guardian.. "Swarm nest" Wow, that thing is UGLY! Hahaha. I am either gonna scrap the nydus completely or just add it back as it is in SC2 and stop whining about it.. Yeah please do that. I love the StarCraft 2 Nydus Network.  I will not add an upgrade that gives burrowed lurkers +2 that I have proposed earlier. Its an upgrade that has a big impact on the game and I will try to be careful with adding such stuff. Instead I listened to Dankos proposal by increasing the AoE a tiny bit and increased the acceleration of the lurker spikes. Gonna see if this makes Lurkers better, cause they do feel very weak, especially vs Protoss. Please don't add these crappy upgrades that "increase AOE" or something on those lines. Those kind of upgrades are terrible for the game. Hydras also feel very weak vs Protoss. Some Zerg players protest by not building hydras at all ^^ I will not do anything yet, but I might increase the attack speed a tiny bit, since I have nerfed it earlier. (Before they were extremely good. Hydras could just A-move into anything) Sure. I still would like to replace the Frenzy spell for Swarm Guardian. I think it overlaps with Plague. Both deal damage, just in different ways. And it is a boring spell too.. Welcome back Consume! Hahahaha. This is just random ideas. The most important aspect is to find something useful for Zerg. What can the Swarm Gurdian have that is useful? Consume! I am just going to go ahead and say this. Just bring back spells that were already in Brood War or in StarCraft 2. Making up spells is really awkward and they usually don't feel true to the name. Not only that but they're usually just terrible ideas, lol. No offense. This is about bringing StarCraft 2 and Brood War TOGETHER, right? Not to make random fucking spells that are totally retarded and give every single unit a full set of spells (Medic). Just my opinion totally so don't take it personally.. Let's just be HONEST. Let's get crackin'! Keep doing to what you feel is true to the mod I guess. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Please don't add these crappy upgrades that "increase AOE" or something on those lines. Those kind of upgrades are terrible for the game. Its not an upgrade. I mean as a general improvement on the lurker. Why is that terrible for the game btw? Wow, that thing is UGLY! Hahaha. I haven´t found any other Zerg model with a proper birth animation. Either someone finds me a good model, I use this one or I let the requirement for Swarm Guardian remain as it is. Welcome back Consume! Hahahaha. Since it is a flying unit and you can get Dark Swarm up at any location you want with ease, adding Consume to it would make it extremely powerful. Its weakness now is that you can´t spam Dark Swarm. I am just going to go ahead and say this. Just bring back spells that were already in Brood War or in StarCraft 2. Sure. Give me one that fits with Swarm Guardian and I use it. Dark Swarm & Consure only? Thats even less spells than the Defiler had. Making up spells is really awkward and they usually don't feel true to the name. Not only that but they're usually just terrible ideas, lol. No offense. This is about bringing StarCraft 2 and Brood War TOGETHER, right? Not to make random fucking spells that are totally retarded and give every single unit a full set of spells (Medic). Just my opinion totally so don't take it personally.. Let's just be HONEST. Let's get crackin'! Keep doing to what you feel is true to the mod I guess. I´m not saying that all stuff I have invented is great in any way. But you got to understand that I do this cause I enjoy it, and that includes inventing and trying ideas. And most of the stuff I have invented has been removed so don´t worry. No, this is not about bringing SC2 and BW together. If I wanted to do that it could have been done a long time ago. Its just bringing the shit together, right? Why would I bother with all other stuff? Cause I enjoy experimenting with it. | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On August 28 2012 02:45 Kabel wrote:Sure. Give me one that fits with Swarm Guardian and I use it. Dark Swarm & Consure only? Thats even less spells than the Defiler had. Well remember you're basically paying for energy. You're losing quite a bit of your army from using Consume. You could reduce how much energy it gets too. And also, this is a hive spell caster. It should be good. I don't remember the exact cost but I remember it being 100/200. That is expensive as hell! It is quite easy to pick off too. I´m not saying that all stuff I have invented is great in any way. But you got to understand that I do this cause I enjoy it, and that includes inventing and trying ideas. And most of the stuff I have invented has been removed so don´t worry. No, this is not about bringing SC2 and BW together. If I wanted to do that it could have been done a long time ago. Its just bringing the shit together, right? Why would I bother with all other stuff? Cause I enjoy experimenting with it. As am I but some of them are just kind of bad... for example Frenzy was just, I don't even. Everything else is fine I guess. Just saying. I just feel like you're adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff. | ||
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Caas
Sweden51 Posts
as he said, hes just experimenting with stuff.. i actually love the nydys with roaches as it gives zerg some kind of siege unit/overrun enemies with more units than they can kill etc etc.. but its just too powerful.. roaches could practically destroy the natural if you get one up. Thats just the ideas this mod need.. | ||
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On August 28 2012 04:17 Caas wrote: but we are adding stuff for the sake of it.. as he said, hes just experimenting with stuff.. i actually love the nydys with roaches as it gives zerg some kind of siege unit/overrun enemies with more units than they can kill etc etc.. but its just too powerful.. roaches could practically destroy the natural if you get one up. Thats just the ideas this mod need.. Well if it keeps going that way. I won't play again. Gotta love how I revived it when Kabel was about to shut it down too. Well, it was nice playing and all. Back to StarCraft 2! | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On August 28 2012 04:47 Laertes wrote: I think you are overreacting just a tad bit Dakota, even if only in jest. Also on the topic of spells, why not have the nydus worm be more like the BW nydus worm, just make the nydus worm only able to build on creep, and drones have to build canals, NOT networks, there will be no networks, just canals that drones build and it adds an option late game. I also didn't wanna bring this up earlier, but I feel like the use of the void rays needs to be promoted, its an interesting unit, but its not an army unit, its a "tech assassination unit" really useful in PvZ, but not useless in PvT. Also I LIKE frenzy, why would you remove it, it does not overlap with plague, increasing unit attack speed is not the same as dealing spell damage... Frenzy is an enhancer spell, plague is straight-up AOE, I would not remove frenzy. We have to define roles here, Infestor is a harrying unit, it harasses the enemy army before the battle begins. The swarm guardian is an in-battle support caster, its spells improve YOUR army, the infestor's spells make the enemy's army worse. The queen is a macro caster, which is perfectly fine, zerg is fine atm, the only thing I think each race needs is a few "offshoot units", units you won't see often but can be interesting for a surprise usage. Also I think on the spire the corrupter should have an upgrade that gives it "Corruption" but thats just me! Viva la Starbow! the nydus canal would probably be pretty good and useful as a defensive mechanic, here is how I would imagine it working: 1. the finished nydus canal works the same way that the SC2 nydus worm does. 2. every nydus canal must be built by a drone and on creep. 3. nydus canals unload units WAY faster than SC2 nydus worms (the bw equivalent had only 2 openings, entering one instantly teleported the unit to the other, there were no limit to how fast units could enter), something like 10 units per second would be good. (remember, overdoing it won't matter, underdoing it makes it useless) 4. nydus canals have more than just 100 hit points. they are way too weak to be useful in SC2. but of course, that's just how I imagine it. as for the swarm guardian... I don't know, just dark swarm feels so powerful that even if the swarm guardian had just that one ability I would get swarm guardians anyway. sorry, I can't think of anything that zerg lacks or really needs. take it as a compliment, zerg feels too complete. I can still pump out ideas like there was no tomorrow if you wish, but those ideas may very well not solve your problem. | ||
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Gben592
United Kingdom281 Posts
As for swarm guardian, it would be kinda fine with just dark swarm... What about some sort of move a bit like abduct on the Viper in HOTS, but instead it could only affect friendly units, and pulled em to the swarm guardian. Maybe it could pull groups of units at a time - like you cast the aoe on friendly units, and all of the ones in the radius get pulled to the swarm guardian. Or you could have it so when you cast it the swarm guardian attaches tendrils to the units, and then you cast again and it throws em all to that area... I think that would be cool :D And it would kinda, kinda fit with swarm guardian... i mean its kinda a support unit right? ("guardian") but idk... | ||
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puissance
97 Posts
Oh and I missed why you dont want to use the Defiler, it is such a great unit. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On August 28 2012 07:43 puissance wrote: E.G a Spawn Broodling variant, which violently kills the unit and deals splash to surrounding units after a short delay. You mean like an abillity that allows you to target and blow up your own unit for some good AoE? That doesnt sound bad tbh  | ||
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On August 28 2012 08:16 NukeD wrote: You mean like an abillity that allows you to target and blow up your own unit for some good AoE? That doesnt sound bad tbh I like this a lot. Reminds me of minnion bombers from GW. Very zergy to blow your own units up for the sake of the swarm. On August 28 2012 11:34 Natespank wrote: I really don't like nerve jammer. It basically gives terran a dark swarm, which is bad because the races lose some distinctness. I completely agree with this. Its extremely useful, shuts down zerglings and hydras who finally get up to your tanks, but it feels weird to see. Seems more like a disruption web than anything though. It'd be nice to see more visual feedback on it though, like a red feild. If anything I'd rather see it pulse and push back enemy units every other second. That way it'd fill just about the same role, but in a very different way. It would also look incredibly bitching to see it pulse back swarms of zerglings. | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
Nydus mechanic can be the same as sc2 except: 1. Network costs 150 min, has 400 hp (or 500ish). 2. Each worm is 100 min, has 250 hp, can only be built on creep. 3. Both have build times equal to the nydus canal from bw. 4. Unload time decreased greatly (someone said 10 units/s, i think around 8 to 10 units/s would be nice). | ||
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