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@Regarding Spider mines (And the ability Detonate)
+ Show Spoiler +Some wonders exactly how they work. Spider mines in Sbow works a bit different compared to BW, mainly due to AI problems. Detonate is a manual ability that has been in the game for a long time, but almost no one uses it, so I bring some light towards it now.
Here is an explanation:A Vulture plants one at target location. It takes ca 5 seconds before it burrows. (It can be killed during this time) As soon as an enemy ground unit comes within range 3, the mine will unburrow. The mine stands still for 2 seconds before it detonates. When it detonates, it launches a missile towards the enemy. Upon impact, the missile deals splash damage.
Some important things: - It can NOT detonate on hovering units (Reaper, Vulture, Archon, Workers) but they can still be affected by splash dmg - I have made so only 4 Spider mines can activate towards the same target at the same time. Otherwise a Zergling can run into a Spider mine field and detonate 15+ Spider mines alone, which was not as possible in BW. (Because of how the missile attack works on Spider mines) - Spider mines do not detect cloaked units. (As they did in BW) - Spider mines will be auto-attacked by enemy units when it is in the 2-second unburrow-mode. (Before it attacks) This causes a problem that has haunted me for a long time. If the unburrow time is too quick, Dragoons never have enough time to kill mines. If the unburrow time is too slow, fast-shooting units can A-move into Spider mine fields without detection and never get hit. Here is my current solution to it: ( And how Detonate works) + Show Spoiler +Spider mines have an ability called Detonate. It allows the Terran player to launch the Spider mine towards an enemy target within range 5.25. (Not vs hovering units)
This means that if Hydras, Marines or Stalkers, with attack range 5, A-move into a mine field, it is still possible for the Terran player to launch mines towards them by manual control. But it is a small window of time.
Without this ability, larger groups of Hydras, Marines and Stalkers will rarely be auto-hit by Spider mines due to their fast attack. They simply kill them before they detonate. With this ability, it is possible for T to catch them, but it requires micro.
It also allows us to maintain the slow unburrow time, which is important vs Dragoons. (The ability is short enough so it does not reach Dragoons with range upgrade)
It has been in the game for a couple of weeks. (Since I added this version of the Spider mine) But I am not sure people know about it. So please try it to see how it feels in game!
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Unit test map "Starbow Tester 2.0" Updated!
I added the upgrades that were missing,and removed the units/upgrades that have been removed. If There is something missing,or something to remove,ask me.
gl hf
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Well, gratz with the succesful stream - peaked at 116 viewers
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Hm, turret missiles look absurdly fast. IMHO, you should make them like how Starbow viking missiles are.
Slower yet accelerating. All projectiles, really. They just seem cooler if they are noticeable, and there is some sort of suspense (?).
Anyway, just thinking of ways of how to improve the entertainment/spectator value of Starbow. 
It's already far beyond SC2's.
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I used to post here, but recently I've been really busy with work. Just wanted to say that I check this thread pretty regularly and I can't wait for this to go to beta.
Also, why are there no recent casts of zerg games? They all seem to be PvT.
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Orbital commander.
Currently I do not like, once done it is impossible to remove the opponent scan, if not destroy the entire command center.
I remember com sat on bw, an addon for cc and can be destroy.
Add an addon on cc sc2 would be a step back, so I'd like to do it this way:
If orbital command hp descend from 1500 to 1000, orbital commander is transformed back into CC. If your command center damaged is updated orbital command, all hp are restored.
For model: I do not know if it is difficult to reverse the animation of the model.
Why all this?
Makes drop and harass much more important. I remember when they tried to destroy the protoss in bw tv com dt for use, or for use wetsuit with Zerg lurker.
It will be possible even in a not too distant future?
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I also would like to say, after only watching a few games in the new build, that warpgates seem to be too much of an upgrade. Sure, it's cool that dragoons need to come from a gateway, but I would like to bring up something we talked about many months ago -- a true macro difference between the two.
I think it would be a fantastic addition to the game and would add a lot of strategic macro depth to Protoss to have warp-in be much slower at producing units than gateways. There should be a trade off between the macro that gateways give vs the flexibility and defense that warpgates give.
One thing I really dislike about SC2 is the warp-in mechanic. It makes it so that Protoss doesn't have a production center where they make units, and therefore don't have any "reinforcement supply lines" across the map where they are transferring units to places that need them (example, their army or an expansion). While this seems like an interesting "difference" between Protoss and the other two races, what it does in practice is limit the number of vulnerable places on the map for the opponent to attack. When sending your troops from the production center to a location, they are vulnerable and susceptible to attack. Getting rid of these limits the areas where action can take place, and limits the strategy somewhat.
So, making Gateways the true "Macro" building ensures that in the mid to late game, Protoss will still have a production center, and therefore will still have to transfer units in a vulnerable fashion.
There some issues with making Gateways build units super fast, or make warp-in super slow, but I think there are very small changes that can make it work. If you go the route of making Gateways produce super fast, in order to not ruin the early game, it would need to be a researched item sufficiently high up the tech tree. If you go the route that warp-in is slower, you could add temporary armor to the unit being warped in (similar to the added armor to a zerg egg), so that the units being warped-in don't instantly die.
Of course you could also do something in the middle where it is a research and warp-in is slowed slightly.
If anyone is worried that this would ruin Protoss macro, you must remember that units would still cost the same, so Protoss would still be limited in the mid and late game by their economy. The biggest difference would be that Protoss wouldn't need nearly as many gateways as they would need warpgates for the same level of production.
Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post.
TL:DR There should be a macro reason to not switch all of your gateways to warpgates (not just the dragoon reason)
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On January 11 2014 10:50 Beef Noodles wrote:
I also would like to say, after only watching a few games in the new build, that warpgates seem to be too much of an upgrade. Sure, it's cool that dragoons need to come from a gateway, but I would like to bring up something we talked about many months ago -- a true macro difference between the two.
I think it would be a fantastic addition to the game and would add a lot of strategic macro depth to Protoss to have warp-in be much slower at producing units than gateways. There should be a trade off between the macro that gateways give vs the flexibility and defense that warpgates give.
One thing I really dislike about SC2 is the warp-in mechanic. It makes it so that Protoss doesn't have a production center where they make units, and therefore don't have any "reinforcement supply lines" across the map where they are transferring units to places that need them (example, their army or an expansion). While this seems like an interesting "difference" between Protoss and the other two races, what it does in practice is limit the number of vulnerable places on the map for the opponent to attack. When sending your troops from the production center to a location, they are vulnerable and susceptible to attack. Getting rid of these limits the areas where action can take place, and limits the strategy somewhat.
So, making Gateways the true "Macro" building ensures that in the mid to late game, Protoss will still have a production center, and therefore will still have to transfer units in a vulnerable fashion.
There some issues with making Gateways build units super fast, or make warp-in super slow, but I think there are very small changes that can make it work. If you go the route of making Gateways produce super fast, in order to not ruin the early game, it would need to be a researched item sufficiently high up the tech tree. If you go the route that warp-in is slower, you could add temporary armor to the unit being warped in (similar to the added armor to a zerg egg), so that the units being warped-in don't instantly die.
Of course you could also do something in the middle where it is a research and warp-in is slowed slightly.
If anyone is worried that this would ruin Protoss macro, you must remember that units would still cost the same, so Protoss would still be limited in the mid and late game by their economy. The biggest difference would be that Protoss wouldn't need nearly as many gateways as they would need warpgates for the same level of production.
Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post.
TL:DR There should be a macro reason to not switch all of your gateways to warpgates (not just the dragoon reason)
You can't warp in Dragoons from warptech - to me that's a big enough disadvantage. Increasing cooldown by x seconds isn't really gonna change anything besides forcing the protoss to make even more warpgates - That's a balance element and not really related to design.
So far its only really our top GM player that has attempted to play w/ heavy warptech play and he is just extremely strong mechanically, so the mechanics itself may acutally look stronger than it actually is. So far there is no real clearcut examples of the mechanic being OP. Thus, I see no reason to change it (yet).
If you look at the warptech buff it actually makes sense becasue it gives highly skilled players (that can master producing out of both gateways and warp tech at the same time) a chance to proove their worth.
Terran, however, also has plenty of tools relative to BW: Marine for instance is more microable, Ghosts will receive a modified ability soon and dropships have unlimited potenital w/ Siege pickup.
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Is allowing injects even if the hatchery is still injected intended?
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On January 11 2014 11:06 purakushi wrote:
Is allowing injects even if the hatchery is still injected intended?
Yes. Same with Chrono boost and Overcharge for Terran
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On January 11 2014 11:08 Kabel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2014 11:06 purakushi wrote:
Is allowing injects even if the hatchery is still injected intended? Yes. Same with Chrono boost and Overcharge for Terran
Cool, just wondering. It takes a bit of getting used to, but I like this way more.
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Dirtybag vs Romson was a pleasure to watch, especially game 3
Also, the amount of followers starbow has seems to be increasing by the day!
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@Maps
We desperately need some more maps up.
I know for a fact they exist ^^.
@Melee Micro
From what I've seen it looked really solid.
Zealot vs Hydra wasn't problematic.
The main thing that was amiss was a zergling auto killing a scv when given an a-move.
No effort to kill it, it will die, just a matter of time.
One small gripe, but it might not be worth over complicated how melee works just for its sake.
Any thoughts on this?
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@Melee micro
I dont understand this now, the zealot miss alot still(?)
Its like it hasnt fixed the "problem"
Yesterday i noticed it, but i wasnt sure. I just tried unit tester and the zealot is retarded.
I dont get it, is this the sc2 pathing rly?
It cant be like this imo, it will ruin gameplay and balance
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On January 11 2014 13:20 Foxxan wrote:
@Melee micro
I dont understand this now, the zealot miss alot still(?)
Its like it hasnt fixed the "problem"
Yesterday i noticed it, but i wasnt sure. I just tried unit tester and the zealot is retarded.
I dont get it, is this the sc2 pathing rly?
It cant be like this imo, it will ruin gameplay and balance
Unit tester is probably out of date.
I didn't see any "missing" whatsoever.
Nor when I physically open it up with a fresh test map.
It should all be completely removed.
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No - the unittester is up to date.
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On January 11 2014 13:58 Foxxan wrote:
No - the unittester is up to date.
I'll jump in.
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Wouldn't it be great if 2 ex-Broodwar pros like say.... Ryung and Impact.... played a game on Texas.... and it was cast....
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EPT
