|
Warp Drive:
Costs 50 energy. Takes 5 seconds to charge up, then moves towards target location (anywhere on the map) at speed 20. The battlecruiser is invincible. The BC cannot use abilities or attack while warping towards a location (can still attack while the warp drive is charging. ~30second cooldown.
Energy Shield:
Costs 100 energy. Surrounds the battlecruiser with a green shield that absorbs up to 300 damage. Shield lasts for 10 seconds. No cooldown. (If this doesn't work how we want it to we can make it a percentage reduction?)
Plasma Ground Bombardment:
Costs 75 energy. Highlights a medium-large area (radius 5-6, range 7?), and after 3 seconds, anything in the ground area takes 30(+30 versus buildings) damage per second. Drains an additional 10 energy per second while active, until the player cancels the ability or the bc's energy runs out. BC cannot move while charging or bombarding.
Yamato cannon:
Costs 125 Energy
After 2-3 seconds, fire a yamato cannon that does 300 damage. Cooldown: 20 seconds (to deter people from storing 250 energy on BC's).
You can add up to two of these abilities on each bc.
|
Think a longer distance, cast time blink would be better and more balanceable. Also movement during the Ground bombardment was essential for the Zoning. Right enough about BCs from me, think the Devs had enough of it.
About the Zerg casters
Pre-battle casters tends to focus on disabling. In the case of ghost the logic is that sniped HTs don't cast storms. Proven by science  . If you want the infestor to be something of the same then it needs a way to disable key units from a decent distance. Potentially while borrowed.
|
On May 27 2013 16:55 Chronopolis wrote:
Warp Drive:
Costs 50 energy. Takes 5 seconds to charge up, then moves towards target location (anywhere on the map) at speed 20. The battlecruiser is invincible. The BC cannot use abilities or attack while warping towards a location (can still attack while the warp drive is charging. ~30second cooldown.
Energy Shield:
Costs 100 energy. Surrounds the battlecruiser with a green shield that absorbs up to 300 damage. Shield lasts for 10 seconds. No cooldown. (If this doesn't work how we want it to we can make it a percentage reduction?)
Plasma Ground Bombardment:
Costs 75 energy. Highlights a medium-large area (radius 5-6, range 7?), and after 3 seconds, anything in the ground area takes 30(+30 versus buildings) damage per second. Drains an additional 10 energy per second while active, until the player cancels the ability or the bc's energy runs out. BC cannot move while charging or bombarding.
Yamato cannon:
Costs 125 Energy
After 2-3 seconds, fire a yamato cannon that does 300 damage. Cooldown: 20 seconds (to deter people from storing 250 energy on BC's).
You can add up to two of these abilities on each bc.
Kinda like they had on the battlecruiser in the hots beta?
shoot some high tech units and then fast move out of there?
i may find that cool.
|
Russian Federation216 Posts
sorry guys, im a bit offtopic from your heavy game modifying, but there is changes i want to see:
@reaver vs PF
here is image:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bL32Xlb.jpg)
as u see deployed reaver attacked angry PF and suddenly all workers are ok (they were at explosion point)
make splash kill them
@devourer
strangely no one notice how bad devourers are
1) air attacks upgrade doesnt work on devourer (at least on unit tester)
2) corrosive acid doesnt work on protoss shields
and overall they're too bad, i suggest buff their attack (like make it 2.5 sec cd), make it no splash with splash corrosive acid
OR just remove them because 2nd pure antiair-support (i think u want it to be support, not main AA dmgdealer) is bad for zerg. so remove devourer and add something fun to zerg, or heavy rework its role
|
On May 27 2013 18:22 Sumadin wrote:Think a longer distance, cast time blink would be better and more balanceable. Also movement during the Ground bombardment was essential for the Zoning. Right enough about BCs from me, think the Devs had enough of it. About the Zerg casters Pre-battle casters tends to focus on disabling. In the case of ghost the logic is that sniped HTs don't cast storms. Proven by science . If you want the infestor to be something of the same then it needs a way to disable key units from a decent distance. Potentially while borrowed.
Well, I think this is actually the more boring role of a pre-battle caster. Like "I kill X and don't lose Y, now I have an advantage and can just overrun him". I think precombat casters should work more like: "I'm gonna cast this. Now you should be disencouraged to move out or attack into me, while I also don't get a big advantage of attacking into you."
Like, snipe and EMP on the SC2 ghost are very simple "hit this precombat and then move over him"-spells. The concept of a pure slow spell like ensnare is something that falls under the second category: I don't get a big advantage from attacking into a slowed army, as it still has all it's combat abilities. But my opponent will have a very hard time moving against me, due to it being very hard for him to position properly and dealing with any sort of counterattack.
Plague is probably also more of such a spell. It doesn't weaken you instantly, so your opponent can't just cast plague and charge in. But it will weaken you if you try to engage and he buys some time. (though admitetly, he can also use it to weaken you and then overrun you. But then at least you had quite a lot of time to react)
Similarily irradiate on bigger units which doesn't give you an immidiate advantage (though again, with the downside of being able to just straight up kill smaller units)
Or blinding cloud (on nonstatic units - on siege tanks it's really dumb), which can zone out units, but has little effect on an actual combat when the opponent reacts properly and pulls out.
|
On May 27 2013 20:09 Fen1kz wrote:
. so remove devourer and add something fun to zerg, or heavy rework its role
i have suggested a new (T2) ground zerg unit: Unit can be buried, acquires a long-range attack (long cooldown and high damage) against air units. It can be used the model swarm host. This unit can replace the devourer. This unit can be userfull for Z vs Z to prevent lings muta wars.
Now zerg has 3 different burrow unit:
infestor: burrowed spell caster unit
lurker: burrowed anti-infantry unit
new unit: burrowed anti-air unit
@ghost
sniper suggestion.
Make snipe cost 50 and make 35 damage (70 vs energy units).
Add a ghost weapon upgrade for increased range and damage (normal attack weapon).
A player can kill ht with 2 snipes, while a good player can use 1 snipe and a normal attack thus saving 50 energy 
Main problem for this ability is the usefulness, its purpose is only to kill hts and maybe infestors.
|
Thanks for your suggestion Johnny but we will not introduce a new T2 unit for zerg if we can avoid it. Too big of a change. We are trying to fix what problems are left with as small changes as possible. Introducing a new T2 unit will most probably require a lot of rebalancing and extra unnecessary work.
@ Fen
We'll look into these issues, thanks for bringing them up, should be quick fixes in the editor. I was aware of the aweful state of the devourer, but we had forgotten about it so thanks for reminding us.
|
Anyone up for gaming tonight?
|
@Local changes not yet uploaded
Devourer damage buffed to 20+10armored. Its ground splash is removed. (It actually did work vs shield, so probably a tester bug).
Reaver scarabs now do their splash damage wherever the scarab is, not where the target is (avoiding awkward situations like Fen's PF being repaired by workers).
Defiler nest to D key.
Stalker has been moved to the E position for grid users. This particular change is already uploaded if I'm not mistaken.
@Fen
if you have a list of major problems with hot key positions pm me please! I know stalker was probably the biggest one.
|
Alright, EU patched. Small bug fix.
+ Show Spoiler +
Devourer: now properly upgrades.
Damage up to 20
No longer splashes ground and friendlies
Deflier moved to X hotkey. Build deflier nest moved to D key. Deflier added to hotkey listings, viper removed.
Deflier now properly costs supply.
Scarabs now explode at the scarab.
|
Also Devourer now benefits from upgrades...
|
Unit test map "Starbow Tester" Updated!
You must fix warpgate grid layout.
A suggestion for warp gate: maybe warpgate units should cost 25 additional minerals (but same build time of gateway), and reduce transformation time from 10 to 5.
Edit: if is possible, add a button at scout to enable/disable ground attack, good for make interesting small corsairs-scouts armies.
|
Why doesn't "W" for warp tech works? IMO it would be much easier if i it worked and if warp tech didn't take priority over gateways (when both of them are selected). Then you could use your control group for gateways and w for warp-tech which would make protoss feel a lot smoother IMO.
Also it would be cool if reaver model size was reduced (feels like a thor size now).
|
Starbow is based on Swarm campaign so "w" is not set by default and seems to be hard to fix in the editor. Right now "shift+w" works. Not too much harder, but hard to get used to from playing SC2....
|
You should be able to rearrange the dependencies to fix that. Just make sure the Swarm Multi is the very top one (or bottom? I forget). One thing that has always annoyed me about the Swarm campaign is the little indicator for pushing "A" for attack. The cursor does the pulsing red arrow when you push A and not after you click. ;; annoying lol
Maybe it is just me ><
|
Ah, it's that simple?! Nice!
I've been thinking about deference and Starbow. We want a strong defenders advantage so we started to make more chokey maps. Then we added the pathing, and now we kinda have both (for some maps, especially Squares of Starbow).
I know not all agree but I really like the pathing. It gives a natural defenders advantage even without the high round. An army attacking will almost always come in more of a line than a defending army's position, and attacking in general requers more setup and thinking than just a-moev unless you have a REALLY bigger army than your opponent.
So, instead of removing pathing, or even nerf defences, why don't just make more open maps? Not completely BW-style since our pathing is not that stupid, and Starbow generally need more bases than the BW maps had to offer.
So without further ado, I precent: Starbow Haven:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hfCPg9p.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hg7x5ZO.jpg)
It is two-player and not 4. Strongly influenced by Luna.
All feedback is appreciated. It might be just too big.... It is 224 x 192 (huge...) in playable.
|
Opener maps looks promising. More room for vulture harrass and mine planting, but harder to turtle mech? Sure!
|
I did some distance comparing and rush distance between main and opponents nat was 235! (in comparison, Tal'Darim Altar has 132,,,,)
So I've started to make a smaller version of it. It's pretty much the same in layout, but some of the distances between the different bases are shorter in order to make the whole map a bit smaller. I've ended up with rush distance on about 190. WIP thought. I am generally pleased with the layout thought. Many paths to take, no acressive expansions, two choises for thirds, both with their advantage and disadvantage. not too much high-ground. Easy to get reapers into main base.
The one high ground base further away (not 3/4 th base) is min only btw. Main has 8 patches, nat 7 and the rest has 8 (except for the min only which has 7). 14 bases in total.
It is a challange to make maps for Sbow atm, (but a FUN challange) since you would like to include these features for a "classic" Starbow map:
- Easy nat
- Not too close third.
- Many bases (more than most SC2 and BW maps)
- Relatively open.
- No aggressive expansion (no expansion which forces you to closer to your opponent (directly)). The middle base being the exception in some instances like Starbow Ridge and Squares.
- No "super-open" expansion, like the minerals hugging a cliff wall, but that's it, like we see in so many SC2 maps.
Not 100% of the "why" of some of these rules, but there are aspects of SC2 maps (and even some BW maps) that I really don't like and that I feel does not fit for Starbow. Rules are ofc ment to be broken if that generate greatness.
I'll try to make more maps in the future. Dec had three maps he wanted to make also, but only made Xiphias Pass so far, and that needs some rework. It ended up becoming very easy to turtle up to 5-6 bases and take half of the map as terran mech without much harass options from the opponent. Those other two had a lot of promise. Come to think about it, I think one of them was fairly similar to abbandon blaze, so maybe there is only one left 
|
I am not too sure Taldarim Altar is the correct comparison. That was a 4 player map meaning initial scouting could take about the same time as this map, so unless you actually consider Taldarim too big then that distance shouldn't be an issue, at least not for the early scouting.
Now as for the layout, I gotta say the center cross looks forced and uninspired. If you wanna keep it open and still maintain positional play, then LOS blocking foliage can earn much of the same effect. Also even if you aren't a fan of them then I would say that the center screams "Xelnaga tower".
HOTS did add some new map features in the campaign mainly new sort of bridges. It seems rather easy to add them to melee maps even if they are trigger-bound. There already exist at least one map using them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=412140
I wonder if something like that might be useful as a Starbow mapping tool.
|
yes, the cross in the middle is kinda "I need something in the middle". Those bridges were cool, but I don't have the skills for that stuff. Any suggestions for the middle?
Btw, the smaller version is not much smaller, and even if Tal'darim is a bad comparison 235 is way too much. New version is about 195, not too big diff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
