update: BIGGER, better and now also uploaded on EU!
Salt is a training tool which enables saving and loading the game in multiplayer matches with practice partners! It is designed to help people test out the timing and execution of all aspects of their play and I have recieved positive responses from Bronze players, pro players/casters (Qxc and Husky) and many people from all levels in between.
To use the tool a player simply types "save" or "load" into chat and they can jump to whatever point in the game they want. For a simple look at how this works and how it can be used you can watch the episode of HuskyStarcraft where he did a review/tutorial on it as part of a new series.
(note, near the end of the clip his opponent clicks on the "restart" button hence the confussion)
He does a good job of outlining some uses for this which are holding timing attacks and practicing micro in real world engagements. It is also useful to develop build orders to test out what a build order is weak against, different variations on a build order and which paths work best when transitioning, as well as practicing games where spawn location plays a role as it lets you chose which starting location each player begins at.
To use simply enter the custom maps section of Battlenet and search for "SALT" and there should be a number of the maps in the list.
LADDER / TOURNAMENT: SALT Antiga Shipyard SALT Entombed Valley SALT Cloud Kingdom SALT Metalopolis SALT Shakuras Plateau SALT Shattered Temple SALT Tal'Darim Altar
TOURNAMENT: SALT Dual Sight SALT Crevasse SALT Daybreak SALT Terminus
NOT IN COMPETITIVE USE: SALT Xel'naga Caverns SALT Bel'shir swamp (one of my own maps, not balance tested)
MORE MAPS: coming soon
If you use custom hotkeys for control groups then you will need to edit the file SALTkeybindings.SC2Banks which will be found in your banks file.+ Show Spoiler +
Start the game and it will create a default file for you, if you do not know where it is located do a search of you SC2 folder and you should find it. To change the hotkey for control group 1 to the letter 'q' find the line that says <Value string="1"/> and change it to <Value string="q"/>. all letters, numbers and F1-F12 keys are allowed.
In the future I will be looking into being able to save the game as a file so that it can be shared with others, distributed to help people become better gamers, included in help requests (eg. "Help. What should I do in this situation?") and used in tournaments in the case of a player who gets disconnected.
I sincerely hope that you all find this to be a useful tool.
No. Either player can save or load when they like, otherwise whoever is winning would not consent to letting the loser have a do-over. It doesn't make sense to have that functionality for the purpose of training as both participants are agreeing to work together on something instead of being in direct competition. For someone who is using this tool so they can go back and relive battles during the game then they should be able to. Not have someone have their ability to veto that decision.
This is the best thing I have ever seen. Ever. In particular being able to choose your spawns is an awesome addition to what would otherwise just be an excellent map .
This is the best thing I have ever seen. Ever. In particular being able to choose your spawns is an awesome addition to what would otherwise just be an excellent map .
:D Thankyou so much! It almost makes all the pain worth it. + Show Spoiler +
(j/k I enjoy the pain )
It's ironic that you mention the choosing spawn locations feature as that was the origional purpose of the mod... It was only afterwards that I realized the potential of saving/loading games midway.
I will continue to fix more issues before making a post in the "general" forum sections of here, Bnet, sc2mapster etc to try and promote it some more.
There is a bug where you can have full vision of the map if you hit Restart and then you load a saved slot.
There is algo a bug where Protoss units will retain they´re upgrades through different games (restart button), so far I saw Forge Upgrades, Charge and Warpgate. (I was PvZing and Zerg didnt retain any)
This is by far the most useful map ever. I imagine this will be used by everyone very soon. The uses of this modification are endless.
I've played Salt Antiga on the US a few times and I have some questions/concerns When I accidentally loaded a save that was not filled my cursor was removed and had to f10->Q out Are observers possible?
I would really like to see these maps refined and expanded. I know I will be playing them a lot and am willing to help with testing. Wyvern.136
Thankyou everyone! I have been unable to work on the map due to eating too much turkey (and other such Christmas related activities).
Starting Thursday I will be diving straight back into it :D. All the problems with reloading the game should be easy to fix so I'll have them patched up soon.
I was worried I would run out of steam and this would be yet another half finished project of mine. Thankyou for your support, I'm glad people besides myself would be interested to see this project seen through to the end.
Suggestions: -A way for people in regular BNET games to hit a 'save' button, and then they can later reload the scenario within SALT. Alternatively, could people hit 'save' during a regular Bnet REPLAY, and then go load a game from there? Ideally you could load a replay, scroll 5 minutes in to some specific point, and then hit 'PLAY' from that point, and you would begin a SALT game with a replica of the demo's conditions.
-A way to create a scenario from an interface, and load up that scenario? For example: I click '10 workers' for player 1, '12 workers' for player 2, '20 marines' for playe 1, etc until I have a desired tech/unit/econmy scenario, which I could then load up into SALT. Sort of like a unit tester except you're testing whole in-game scenarios rather than specific unit battles.
-A way to externally export and import scenarios like in YABOT or similar. So that scenarios could be easily posted around such as on these forums.
-A method to define an end point for a scenario. Such as, 'the scenario will end in 5 minutes', after which a mini-score screen might pop up (units left, units killed, econ position, etc). Other end points could be specified such as, for example if you were playtesting a strong worker harass scenario, 'the scenario will end after player X's worker count drops below 15 or exceeds 30' (for a loss or win condition, respectively).
-A King of the Hill mode. Multiple players are in a server spectating 2 other players playing, and when a scenario 'ends', the winner stays and the loser is replaced with the next player in line. The scenario is repeated until KOTH players decide to vote on a new scenario/map.
Things these suggestions would enable:
-When someone has a strategic question about a game they lost, they could scroll their demo to the point where they felt confused, hit the 'save' button and then either replay that scenario with a friend, or post the scenario to TL and a more experienced player might physically show the replay-poster how they would deal with the situation.
-Sort of a competition atmosphere for specific scenarios. A scenario could be like 'hold off a bunker rush with X units'. People could competitively play eachother and determine who was best at holding bunker rushes. Another exmaple would be 'who can pull the best harassment with given X units'? Ideally a ranking system of some sort would exist.
-Even dismissing a competitive aspect, people could just post really fun and challenging scenarios. Maybe like 'bust thru a super tank contain' or 'survive an 8 base zerg onslaught', etc. Almost like a campaign game, except your opponent is human and is also trying to win.
-People could more easily speculate and discuss what an optimal response might be for a given situations (theorycrafting). This could possibly even extend to pro-replays (what would have happened if some player did Y instead of X?)
-A 'replay from this point' function, for when competitive games are dropped due to lag etc. A game would be saved say every 30 seconds (or possibly more), and if the game ever dropped due to lag, players could restart right before the drop point. I imagine this would be big with competitive gamers/groups.
I would love it if you could have pro players playing on something like this and you could relive their battles or see if they could have actually won if you think they threw a game where they lost an advantage (for example people claiming Idra leaves "won" games too early could actually test it for themselves).
There is a problem though, at the moment all of this data is stored in memory so it is lost when you close the game. Tod do all that you would need to be able to save it as a file.
Blizzard has provided a method to allow map makers to store files onto a users computer which could be used in this way. However, there is a very tight size limit to the file you are allowed to create, which I guess is reasonable from their perspective but sucks for me .
I haven't fully looked into the restrictions on saving files but after a few very rough calculations on the amount of data I will need to be saving it looks like I will be just about at the limit of what is allowed and what is not allowed. So fingers crossed, but don't get hopes too high yet about the ability to transfer games around in a file and have them read/write properly.
(If anyone knows of any definitive links about file size restrictions and details about the various data types and how they are represented that would be awesome)
The errors that could occur during reloading the map have been fixed.
Also you can no longer load from a slot that you have not saved to (also the button is greyed out in the options so you know you can't load from that slot)
what about 'saving' games from a replay, as a way of recalling lost data?
It's an interesting possibility, one I've had a quick look at. There are people working on how to read replay files using C++/php but much is still unknown about what the data in the files represents. Even after/if that all gets sorted out you would need a way to be able to read it into the SC2 engine to be able to recreate a moment in a game.
Unless Blizzard suddenly decides to open the source code to their replay viewer I don't see it happening any time in the foreseeable future.
One more suggestion then. How about sending the mod out with a few preset 'saves'. Such as, fast expand, 2 rax early, etc, all as you would encounter in a normal game.
I would love to try it , can i since im on the EU server ?
I don't have access to the EU server just SEA and NA. The version here is out of date as there have been some major improvements made but I have not uploaded yet as I am fixing a few small errors with the newer version. When it's done I will try and provide a link for downloading the maps for those not on SEA/NA
The ability to save a load games should be basic. The potential for learning would be AMAZING. Imagine how many things Day[9] could do on the daily if he could randomly pop in and show us how to fix what he criticizing.
Or, we could practice a late game battle with someone 100 times. Ahk... this feature is too good. It makes me sad Blizz probably wont implement it.
On January 24 2012 15:40 Fission wrote: Hi turtles, when do you anticipate uploading the most recent version?
Hi guys!
I have just released the most recent version of the mod on both US and SEA servers. go to "create custom game" and type in "SALT", you should get a couple of maps.
So far I have released the mod in the following maps
ladder/tournament maps: SALT Xel'naga Caverns SALT Shattered temple SALT Antiga Shipyards
GSL maps: SALT Crevasse
a map of my own making (NOTE: not tested for balance, just something I made for fun): SALT Bel'Shir swamp
I want to announce the MOD in the general chat ASAP but I want to first do one last test run.
I will be in the US chat channel "SALT" for the next few hours if anyone would be kind enough to give me a 5 minute test run. As I said before my username in game is "turtles" character code is 734.
EDIT: I just realized that it is about 5 AM in America *facepalm* so this is probably the WORST time to be expecting anyone to join me on the US server. I will try and organize a better time to playtest it.
If I could get the [WIP] tag removed from the title then I will keep this thread updated every now and again when I release patches and for discussion about it from a mappers perspective.
The bug with researches/upgrades not loading correctly has been fixed! The UI is now a lot more clean and unobtrussive. Unit orders targeting other units now load correctly. So things like target firing, feedback, sniping etcetc all work if you load the game back to when the orders were given. The creep spread now loads to where it was previously. Building morphs now work correctly.
Also can someone remove the [wip] tag that I placed in the thread title?
I have someone I trust not to screw me over on EU. I want to fix up a few things first then email them to him so he can upload for me.
unfortunately I am very busy until next week so I won't have much time to work on it. But hopefully by late next week I can have an updated version on EU featuring lots of tournament maps.
It will also hopefully be uploaded to NA under the account of a player who I was very excited to hear had tried it out, liked it and emailed me to ask if I wanted help to promote it. Who that player is will have to remain a secret until then
for example: if i have had two larvae for 10 seconds, then save, loading the game state will give me my third larvae 15sec from save point, not 5sec from save point.
this is rather inconsequential and maybe not fixable :o
LADDER / TOURNAMENT: Antiga Shipyard Entombed Valley Cloud Kingdom Metalopolis Shakuras Plateau Shattered Temple Tal'Darim Altar (version with rocks at 3rd. Wasn't sure which to use)
TOURNAMENT: Dual Sight Crevasse Daybreak Terminus
NOT IN COMPETITIVE USE: Xel'naga Caverns Bel'shir swamp (one of my own stupid untested maps)
and have emailed them to the guy who was going to be my uploader for EU... but his email account keeps bouncing emails with error messages and I can't get a hold of him. I have PMed him through teamliquid messages but haven't heard back. I'll give him a bit more time before looking for another potential uploader for the European region.
In the mean time I leave you with this clip just to be a tease
instead of the 4 maps that there used to be there are now 13 maps + Show Spoiler +
LADDER / TOURNAMENT: SALT Antiga Shipyard SALT Entombed Valley SALT Cloud Kingdom SALT Metalopolis SALT Shakuras Plateau SALT Shattered Temple SALT Tal'Darim Altar
TOURNAMENT: SALT Dual Sight SALT Crevasse SALT Daybreak SALT Terminus
NOT IN COMPETITIVE USE: SALT Xel'naga Caverns SALT Bel'shir swamp (one of my own maps, not balance tested)
on which SALT has been ported to which are all available on NA, EU and SEA*
On top of that I have edited the OP to reflect some other news items. usability is now greatly improved with control groups now recognized automatically, QXC has graciously offered to help host the maps to NA and SALT has been covered by H-to-the-usky-HUSKY (see OP for clip of a review of SALT on huskystarcraft)
I recently learned that if a game is private it does not count towards the amount of time played on a map. So if I could make a request, it would help out if games played on SALT were opened to the public even if it is a private game between you and a friend as this would help spread the visibility of this project.
Thank you for your time patience. Now get out there and "be a better gamer" Turtles
*SEA will have to wait until after the new patch which occurs tomorrow
Does the save function work if someone is getting disconnected from the game? If so, having this function for tournament maps would be helpful if the players would have to replay the game otherwise.
On February 27 2012 06:14 dgwow wrote: Does the save function work if someone is getting disconnected from the game? If so, having this function for tournament maps would be helpful if the players would have to replay the game otherwise.
not at the moment. Origionally I was going to implement it by saving the file.
Blizzard allows custom maps to edit special "bank" files on a users computer. When SC2 was released the size limit on these files was about 30Kb but over time it has been dropped down to 8Kb maximum, so alas I think it will be impossible.
I have heard rumours that in HOTS you be able to rejoin a custom game after disconnecting. So if a person drops they could pause the game and that person could reconnect. Don't know how true those rumours will turn out to be.
I have a new version out on Shakuras Plateau (NA and SEA).
It is only on that map for now until I can get more games on it to see how it works in practice.
The biggest change is that swapping is now implemented!
When you load the game there will be a portrait on either side of the menu with a unit in it (marine, zealot or zergling based on which race) and a short description underneath of race, spawn location (2 O'clock, 7 O'clock, etc) food supply and some other details. These will have the players name above them showing who was who when the game was saved.
To swap, click on the other players unit and you will see that the armies have now been swapped around. click on the "Go" button and the game will load back to the previous save but you will be in the opponents seat instead. (with their units, control groups, tech tree, resources etcetc)
This will be a big benifit for people using SALT as a coaching tool as you will be able to go over a scenario together from both sides. For instance how to leap frog tanks. If the student messes up his push the coach can swap and load back to before it happened and show the student how to do it. They can then swap back and load so the student can try the push again.
There are a few bug fixes/changes as well.
when the game starts there is a 3 second countdown before you can begin mining. This is because some people were experiencing lag spikes just as you were begining.
When over the maximum allowed units for a save (650 units from memory) the game will print out a message warning that there are too many units to save and let you continue.
hatches now start with 3 larva instead of being a slight (half a second?) delay before they appear.
few other tweaks.
Remember, it's on "SALT Shakuras Plateau" (NA and SEA) only for now. If you are not on those servers or want to try out a game on the older version I would still like to hear your thoughts on the previous version as a lot is carried over
contact me if you want a game or grab a friend and go practice a few games. Swap forces and see if you can teach him/her a thing or two
When over the maximum allowed units for a save (650 units from memory) the game will print out a message warning that there are too many units to save and let you continue.
development stopped on this project a while back but it is in full production right now and there is some big news:
SALT version 2 will soon be out!
Including new features like auto-save, swapping sides with your opponent, and build order support. Other changes are a greatly improved and simpler interface and various fixes, patches and tweaks.
Here is a taste of what SALT v2 has:
commands built into the main game interface (press F10 or click on the menu button to see all the features)
example of creating a build
working through a build order
improved saving/loading - now with both auto-save and the ability to swap sides with your opponent (click on their unit portrait)
adjustable auto-save duration
a list of credits with about 8 sections listing people who have helped to make SALT
I look forward to your feedback as always and hope this comes as a help to you all.
If you have any feedback please drop me a note in this thread or PM me.
For any map makers who would like this mod ported to their map just send me a PM and I'll set it up for you. You can begin saving/loading games on your map in no time.
current maps As I am looking for testers I haven't put this version of SALT on all the maps yet. At the moment it is available on the map "SALT condemned ridge" in wings of liberty and "SALT fractured glacier" in the HotS beta. All other SALT maps will not work for the time being
Wightbane Gorge by NewSunshine one of the finalists of the September MoTM competition.
Just search for SALT in the arcade on the US server and you will see all the maps available. The maps features can be accessed by opening the game menu (the same menu you use to change settings, leave game, pause etc)
If you would like to use SALT to test your map in depth then speak up and I will gladly add it on for you.
It took me a while to realize that you can't find SALT games in Custom Games, you have to go to the Arcade. I've never really understood why that is. Anyway, thanks for the updates!
Man you're freaking awesome!! I have used the SALT maps many times to practice builds and stuff and with the new improvement its going to be much easier it seems Thanks!
We've been testing the maps with my teammates during practice - it seems there's an issue with the maps, when you add spectators to it now, since the new version was released. As in the previous one, it worked just fine with spectators.
What it does is, that the buttons stop working properly. You click "load" and nothing happens. In one case, the whole map became unclickable. It may be because of the spectators, however, like I said, it worked just fine in the previous release od the maps.
Sorry, I don't know what changes I made to make it stop functioning properly with spectators.
From day 1 I have assumed there would only be 2 players or player vs comp. It never occured to me to make it spectator friendly so I'm surprised it worked with spectators to begin with.
I won't have much free time till Mon and it will be hard to fix because testing would require publishing and testing with other people. But I'll get on it
On November 15 2012 11:20 turtles wrote: Sorry, I don't know what changes I made to make it stop functioning properly with spectators.
From day 1 I have assumed there would only be 2 players or player vs comp. It never occured to me to make it spectator friendly so I'm surprised it worked with spectators to begin with.
I won't have much free time till Mon and it will be hard to fix because testing would require publishing and testing with other people. But I'll get on it
We wanted to use it during team practices & we also tend to help each other and commentate on the games, hence why it was used with observers. It'd be good if it worked again with them, as the map is a lovely practice tool. Will gladly test it for you.
Working on getting SALT working for multiple people with the ability to swap controll between different players.
When it was just 2 players allowed in a game I would keep the unit colours and swap the colour of players. For example if I am a red zerg and you are blue terran then if we swap sides then I become a blue terran and you become a red zerg.
I kept the colours of each army because I thought it would make things less confusing.
But with up to 14 players in a game and the ability to swap around who is in charge of which army I am thinking it will make things simpler if each player keeps their own colour. For example if I am a red zerg and your colour is blue and we swap then you become zerg but keep your colour.
Wondering which others think would make the most intuitive sense
Poll: Which makes more sense
Players assume the colour of the army they are controlling (3)
100%
Players maintain their own colour (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: Which makes more sense
(Vote): Players maintain their own colour (Vote): Players assume the colour of the army they are controlling
I'd say make it, that it's easier to program for you. The colours are not that significant, and if this map works for group of people practicing, then something like what the colour of my army is the last thing bugging me, really.
Just want to say awesome map. been using this just to hammer out BO's. After new update somethings I have noticed, and probably you are aware of but just in case!
Upgrade bug after restarting. Say on the first play through i do like my full build order and have 3/3 upgrades for bio. If I restart and then try upgrading +1/1 attack, once it finishes, my bio seems to get +3/3 attack right off the bat. (Only tested with terran on SALT Antiga)
I get this Issue too when practicing on Darleign Multitasking trainer with the vehicle upgrades.
Well just want everyone to know that the new version is ready! All I am waiting on are some more maps to add to the map pool! Once that happens (in a week maybe?) I will make an anouncement in the general forums section as well as a reddit post.
The list of features can be a bit hard to explain so I have created a tutorial in which I use one of the SALT maps to show off the new features of the mod. Even if you have used this before you should have a look as there are a few things that will be new to you.
In the video I show how to find the game and there was only one map available. Earlier today I expanded the list. The current SALT map pool includes:
All of the bugs mentioned previously have been fixed. If you find something I missed please send me a message and I'll stick you in the credits section.
Swarm hosts currently lose their rally point when hot swapping forces. (but not when swapping during save/load). But thats not a really big deal.
The only other known bug at the moment is if you are playing with 3 or more people and one of them leaves but as this is primarilly for vs AI or 1v1 it won't be a problem for that mode. If you are playing as a group >= 3, then it is not a problem unless a player leaves the game.
It may take few weeks to address this problem as I only have 1 computer capable of playing starcraft. I will have to go to a LAN cafe during a quiet time and pay to use multiple computers to fix this problem. There is a place nearby which offered me a deal last time for a mention in the credits so I will to organize it with them to do the same again sometime.
EDIT: I just realized that you need to have the option "Menu>Options>Gameplay>enable enemy unit selection" ticked to be able to select a starting location. I just assumed that was the first thing every man and his dog did upon recieving HOTS, but I guess not. If you prefer playing without this option then you can toggle it on/off in game
I just went into SALT Guillotine on NA and imported a build using this string
[STRING REMOVED]
Which is just a small zerg build. It worked fine for me.
When you import a build it will take you to the editing stage. If you got the builds off of sct.sc like in the tutorial video then all the builds have the same generic name and description. But you can edit the details (or leave them as they are) and click on "next" and it will take you to the build where you can add/remove steps.
Maybe you just saw that they all had the same name when you tried importing them from the same source and didn't realize they were all actually different.
If you keep having the problem could you maybe post what string you are using followed by some screen shots?
EDIT: I couldn't get the TL formatting to stop flipping out when I tried to post a YABOT string. The post still stands though
Thanks for your reply. I'm trying to get it work on EU|SALT Guiottine. So i start the custom game, press F10, chose BuildOrder, then Import a build order and then i entered the yabot key.
Thanks. I think it might be a problem with sct.sc then. You can use the "remove last step" button to go back and remove it and add other things to the build.
I just played neo planet on EU and noticed that the research for overlord speed is not reset when restarting the game. the upgrade is returned on the hatcherie so you can purchase it again, but the overlords have the upgrade from start.
Hey Turtles, I just played Neo Planet on EU and speed was set to Normal. Should be Faster per default. Thanks.
Can you still manually set it to faster?
I'll change it. For some reason when I upload a map the game speed sometimes resets to "normal" even if I have it set as "faster". Does this happen to any other map makers?
I just played neo planet on EU and noticed that the research for overlord speed is not reset when restarting the game.
That's curious. I'll look into it. Thanks for the bug report.
Having the mod on so many maps means that for any change I have to update and then reload each map on both servers (NA and EU) which takes about an hour. So I try and put off small shanges until I have a few of them.
I recently discovered this mod and it's been very helpful, especially for a new(b) player like me that still struggles with maintaining a solid early-game build order. It saves me a ton of time, not having to surrender, re-make a match, etc. The build-order feature also helps a ton.
I wanted to give you some feedback based on my experience with the tool during the first hour or so. They're numbered below, with some additional details and suggestions.
1. The build order can cover the timer/minimap
As a protoss player, I loaded up the default '3 gate robo', and noticed that It starts to overlap on the Minimap: http://i.imgur.com/4x7a2NY.png (as a new user I can't embed images sorry )
Since this covers the timer it is a little annoying when attempting to learn a solid build order.
Perhaps the build order window could be modified to have a max height, and if it does contain more elements than it can show, you allow the elements to scroll. Then when the items are checked off, once 5 are checked, the top-most will scroll away. That way you can see your recent completed items, and still have the list advance.
If the Starcraft UI does not support scrolling elements like that, you could just add/hide the elements at the bottom/top of the window instead.
At this point I thought "ok, no problem, I'll work around this by removing the last entry so that it's not as long". However I wanted to make a copy of the build order and edit that so I could have a backup of the original.
2. There is no way to copy/duplicate build orders (in-game)
I think it would make a lot of sense to add a 'copy' button at the bottom of the build order selection screen, next to 'select' 'edit' and 'delete'. This would copy the build order with a default name of "<original name> copy".
Having worked on a build order, I wanted to share it with a friend who was also trying SALT. But there was no way to export the order the same way I could import the YABOT codes from www.sct.sc's build viewer.
3. Add a way to export build orders.
Similarly to the copy button, there should be an export button, which then displays the a text field with the generated code that you can then copy.
4. I think the build order UI could be greatly streamlined, which would incorporate points 2 and 3 above. Here is a quick proposal for your consideration:
- When clicking 'Build Order' in the menu, the user should be immediately taken to the Build order selection screen (skipping the previous three-button screen). - The Build order selection screen should be edited to add some new buttons. Here is a mockup: http://i.imgur.com/IjbpuWc.png
- Two new buttons are added at the top, 'Add New' and 'Import'. These replace the previous three-button screen, and are always visible. - Two new buttons are added at the bottom, 'Copy' and 'Export'. All the bottom buttons should only be visible when a build order is selected, since they operate on a selected build order. - The 'select which race' text could be modified to say "Filter by race", and an "All" option could be included that shows all races.
- When clicking 'Edit' on the build order selection screen (with a build order selected), the user should be immediately taken to the Edit window (for now skipping the 'Build order Information' Screen) - The Build order edit screen should be edited to add some new buttons. Here is a mockup: http://i.imgur.com/7hWb1TI.jpg
- To allow users to quickly look between build orders, a 'back' button could be added to return them to the previous build order selection screen. - When a user wants to edit a build order, 9/10 times they don't want to edit the meta information such as the author's name, so it makes sense to not show that every time. Instead, an 'Edit Information' button here would bring up that dialogue, for when the 1/10 times they do want to change the author info or build order title. - Note: the only time you want to show the Information page before this edit page is when the user has clicked 'Import' or 'Add New' on the previous page, since that is when they might want to change it.
I think that's it for now. I hope you consider my suggestions and maybe even incorporate some in a future version of your mod
These are all really great ideas and I love the mockup images you made. I will certainly be taking them into consideration moving forwards. Might even "steal" some of the UI designs you made.
The starcraft UI supports elements that can move around the screen although it is not possible** for players to manually scroll up/down a list. However I can make the list scroll automatically as items are completed or added/removed in the editing screen.
If you look at the first post in this thread you will note it is from 2011. I am very much the proverbial turtle tortoise in the hair and the tortoise race. So it may be a while until I can incorporate the new design. The earliest a next patch can be out is September (work + getting married + honeymoon in New Zealand). But I am also persistent and will continue to work on it behind the scenes. I think there is definitely a need for it and that SALT has the best foundations to build upon to make a great BO practice tool.
Also cheers jon osterman and dUTtrOACh!
** By "not possible" I mean there is no native way to do it and one created from scratch would result in way too much lag in-game.
i just found SALT on bnet, and it looks like exactly what i need, since YABOT seem to be pretty much dead as of now. (there are two "new official" yabot maps on bnet, but they seem to have abandoned their website)
my only question now is, to import a build i need the yabot encoding string. and the website where i went to get those, sc2builds.com, has removed them - for what ever reason is completely beyond me. is there currently any website sharing sc2 builds, including the according yabot encoding string?? that site sct.sc mentioned somewhere above apparently does not exist anymore.
or does anyone have a huge text file with builds as a backup?
this is very confusing, and the lack of information is very frustrating. confusion + frustration don't mix.
I have nothing to do with those websites. It looks like many of them are abandoned or broken unfortunately
However you don't have to import a build order like in the tutorial video. You can make one youself in the editor. The next release you will be able to export a build as well as import one. So you can create a build, export it and share it around as others or people could start pasting builds on forums for others to try. The editor will also be greatly improved amongst other improvements.
Working on it now. But untill then you might have to make your builds from scratch in the editor under "menu->build orders->create new build order".
I'm getting back to sc after a loooong break and i just dropped by to say thank you turtles for making this map. I loved it back when i played sc before, and i love it now when i'm trying to get back to playing. It's just perfect for what i want in solo practice.. Thanks!
Here with an update. SALT is up to date and running as an extension mod on NA and EU.
Chose to practice on whatever map you like with the ability to save/load the game whenever you want. For players it's a great way to stream line their training sessions and for map makers it's a great way to test out their maps features.
EDIT: I forgot to include the string. A more detailed version of the Terran build order I demonstrated in the vid can be imported with the string:
!Hyun's 3hatch opener~% !?+ I+ D+ !? !@ !C D !@ %/ !@ C C H "# B #J C #@ D C (M #D F E C C "$ D K !O !O !O #a ,R #A
I'm not yet maintaining a database of builds but it would be great if I could include them on teamliquid build order pages or other sites like imbabuilds.com and sc2builds.com but I would have to have a discussion with administrators of those sites first.
Untill then feel free to post here with a few build import strings if you make any. (If you want to ignore the supply/timestamp for a step then just set the fields to zero). To post without the formatting screwing everything up use "code" and "/code" tags. See the wikipedia page for info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBCode
Just dropping in to mention that there was previously a bug with Protoss buildings losing their production queue upon load. That problem is now fixed
Also I found a way to recognize all spawn points on maps with very minimal tweaking. So all spawn points on current ladder maps are recognized and it will only take 5minutes to update with new maps as they come out.
upgrades and research was not properly being recognized on the build order and is fixed.
upgrades/researches were not restored properly when saving/loading. This is now fixed and it seems to be due to a bug Blizzard introduced sometime. Bad Blizzard, Bad!
If you create a new build order in the editor, make sure to go into menu->build orders->select->export and msg me the string. That way I can include it for anyone else who plays and wants to train with that build.
I'm getting a lot of new users who are unsure about what to do so I figured it was about time for an FAQ to help clear up some common questions which are popping up. So here are 10 questions which I've seen commonly.
Q1: What is this? I don't even
A: SALT is a tool for practicing starcraft 2. It has a build order tester which lets you practice builds and has the ability to save/load during the game to cut out time wasted and let you really focus on the areas you struggle with.
Q2:. I searched for SALT but could not find it. What gives?
A: SALT is an extension mod. Searching for them is a little different than searching for a normal custom game.
Click on "custom games"
Click on "browse maps"
click which map you wish to play on
click on "create with mod"
search for SALT (or whatever extension mod you wish to play)
Q3: How do I start?
A: when you begin the game there will be a xel-naga tower and three icons at each spawn location. Each icon represents a race (Terran, Protoss and Zerg) Click on the racial icon you want to play. Click the xel-naga tower if you are random (spork). Doesn't matter if you clicked the wrong icon! don't leave the game just open the menu and click on the button which says restart and you can chose again.
Q5: Why does the AI just sit there not doing anything?
A: The Blizzard AI is designed to play normal maps and can't handle mods. It doesn't know what to do so it does nothing. This will not prevent you from focusing on your own play and excecution but it can also be good to practice under pressure sometimes.
When you want to go head to head with an opponent get a friend or training buddy and hop into the game together. Both of you will be able to practice your builds against eachother.
hint 1: Remember to save the game before each battle, that way you can load back to before the battle and practice your micro or see where you could have done better. Maybe even swap sides with your opponent (menu->swap) to experience the battle from your opponents perspective.
hint 2: I'm working on making my own AI project to win GSL and then some day take over the world enslaving mankind. But that won't be ready at least untill next year
Q4: where are all the build orders?
A: menu->build orders->select build order.
There are only two example builds per race to start with. I will be adding more as time goes on but you can make your own up using the editor. and then share them with other players online or in forums by using the import/export feature.
to import just go to menu->build orders->import and paste the string in there
go to menu->build orders->create new and give the build order a name and select which race it is for. Click next and there will be a bunch of buttons for units, buildings and upgrades as well as boxes to enter in times or supply. Enter in what time/supply you want each step and then click on the icon. So for a six pool the first step would be to enter the number 6 into supply and click on the spawning pool icon. When you are happy with your build be sure to export it and save it on your computer so you can skip this step next time. See question 7.
Editor hint 1: Don't put in small details like workers unless it's timing is integral to the build. Just put in all the important steps otherwise it will become cluttered
Editor hint 2: If you do not need to list a time or supply for a step then leave that field blank. You don't need to enter a value into these fields unless you want to.
Q5: How do I customize the look of my build order?
A: Open the menu. There will be two "options" buttons. the lower one will be for SALT options. Here you can customize almost everything about the build order display.
Q6: Do my custom hotkeys work with SALT?
Some features will not recognize your custom keybindings. If you don't use those features then don't worry about it.
Custom hotkeys for units/buildings The build order can display the hotkey for the next step in your build order to train people to use hotkeys. If you have custom hotkeys you will need to update SALT to have them display correctly. go into menu, there are two options buttons, click on the lower one. select the race. select the unit. Click on it's portrait and enter in what you wish displayed on the build order.
custom control group keybindings If you use customized keybindings for control groups 1-9 then saving/loading will not load your control groups correctly. Same as for the above instructions but click on control groups and set them up how you have them.
Q7: Help! My build orders disapeared
There is a Blizzard bug which means that no information can be saved in between sessions for extension mods. So that build order you made yesterday is gone. HOWEVER, you can work around that by exporting a build order and saving it on your computer for later use. Both in the build order editor or in the build order selection screen there is a button which says "export". Click on this and you will see a bunch of text. Double click to highlight the text and press ctrl-c to copy it to your computers clipboard. Then paste it using ctrl-p into a word document, forum post, email, skype chat... wherever. I personally use notepad to save a .txt file with build orders in it to my desktop.
When you start a new session all you have to do is copy that text and go into menu->build orders->import and paste it into the text box there. Don't forget that you can share the text with others to use as well.
Q8: Not all of the spawn locations appeared. Why are some missing?
You can still select from the available spawn locations, just not from the missing ones. This may happen in maps which were made by non-English speakers such as korean maps or Chinese maps. I will make sure that all spawn positions on all ladder maps are recognized. But there are too many maps for me to fix for each map. If you have a request for a map then drop me a PM. It will only take me about 10 minutes.
Q9: when I loaded the map units were not loaded correctly. I had workers not doing anything or other odd behaviour.
A: this is a known bug. I should have a patch out in the coming weeks. This happens sometimes when one or more players are zerg. For the moment the save/load feature should be considered unreliable for zerg players (sorry my swarm bretheran) but the restart feature works fine so they can still practice their build from the begining
Q10: What other features are there?
A: OK, so no ones actually asked me this yet but I just wanted to mention a few other things.
show hotkeys in the build order to train yourself to use hotkeys
Swap sides with your opponent any time with menu->swap. Click on the unit portrait and select which player to control them.
Swap sides while loading. when you load back to a saved state click on the unit portrait, select which player you want to control that side.
Observers. If the map has more than two spawn locations then other players can join the game and will be made spectators. Use the swap methods above to make them an active participant.
credits screen. I've had help from other people at every stage and I wanted a way for them to be recognized. menu->credits.
Any other questions don't hesitate to ask. I'm always lurking on TL.
Want to guess one of the upcoming features in SALT? If you guessed "voice prompts" for upcoming steps then you are correct but you probably cheated and looked at the video title already.
Notice that SALT looks ahead and gives you a few seconds notice before an upcoming step should be completed.
3. Accept Canceling by building via BO (buildings, units etc.)
4. Hotkey setup (import from active SC2 may possible?) German letters (here: ä, TheCore TRM)
5. Benchmarking! Against own BOs, timings (workers, active forces, time)
6. Speaking Build Order Would be very useful in 1v1 matches where one player or both using the BO tool.
7. Hidden BO BO is only viewable to Referees and/or Spectators
8. Short countdown after choosing your race optional: SALT gives only positive, negative visual/audio feedback when next step is/was right or wrong
9. Extra Could you do a rework of the Arcade Hotkey Trainer (EU: starcraft://map/2/166322) as mod please?! TY so much in advance!
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B) Bugs
1. Error msg "Dialog Item used was not recognized as valid" (clicking at barrack) 2. BO description for Reactor/TechLab! Not certain for which building! 3. A in SALT created BO should stay and should become permanent available next time SALT is started.
________________________________
tL;DR I really hope you get sponsored by Blizzard, this is just great and essential to SC2 fmpov.
You encouraged me in your video to give you suggestions as well as critic. I hope this kind of feedback is okay for you and you can use it for your and our advantage in upcoming SALT version! ♥
Thanks for the gilding. Glad you find the tool helpful
3. A in SALT created BO should stay and should become permanent available next time SALT is started.
Unfortunately, this is not possible there is a problem with Battle net where nothing can be saved in extension mods. Until Blizzard fixes their broken code there is nothing I can do.
BUT... what you CAN do is export a build order and then import it again. go into menu->select build order->export and you will see some text. copy and paste that into a text editor like notepad or microsoft word and save the file on your computer. Then next time you play you can go menu->build orders->import and import the build into the game. No need to create it again every time.
1.Import/Export from/to SC2 Scrapbook (~200 different BOs in the meantime here)
I hadn't heard of that resource before. I'll look into it.
2. Higher game speed for macro trainings purposes.
Maybe. The game lets you set time dynamically which means it should be possible to speed up/slow down the game whenever you want. Too many features starts to get confusing for the user though. I'll think about it.
4. Hotkey setup (import from active SC2 may possible?)
You can set up hotkeys in menu->SALT options->hotkeys. (When you open the menu there is a button near the bottom which says options). Unfortunately it has to be set up each game due to the Blizzard bug I mentioned earlier.
Would be very useful in 1v1 matches where one player or both using the BO tool.
It IS possible you don't have to play against the computer. You can also play SALT with other people. only works in 1v1, but you can add more human players and they become spectators or can swap places with the players using the swap button.
Could you do a rework of the Arcade Hotkey Trainer
Sorry, really busy. I won't have time to do this. Although recently I wrote a location hotkey trainer on NA server to train people to use the location hotkeys and respond to drops. Maybe that would be helpful. Look up "location hotkey trainer in extension mods on NA, add some computer players, click the "ready" button and have fun
Thanks for the post. Some of those suggestions are really good. I'm currently rewritting a large part of SALT to fix a lot of bugs and improve the save/loading. Hopefully it will be out in a month.
I don't think there are any up to date build order resources which have a standardized format.
You have to use the editor to make a build order. menu->build orders->create new build order. Don't forget to export it and save the text on your computer so you can import it next time or the build will be lost (due to a Blizzard bug, nothing I can do to fix that).
propagare 2 posts higher reported that adding a barracks does not work for him so I will have to investigate that.
On September 19 2014 12:58 turtles wrote: I don't think there are any up to date build order resources which have a standardized format.
You have to use the editor to make a build order. menu->build orders->create new build order. Don't forget to export it and save the text on your computer so you can import it next time or the build will be lost (due to a Blizzard bug, nothing I can do to fix that).
propagare 2 posts higher reported that adding a barracks does not work for him so I will have to investigate that.
I'm using the extension mod on NA. My game clock freezes to the first time that I do a manual 'save' by typing that in chat.
I vaguely remember in WoL this being a problem and there was an option to put in a second clock that would reset every time you load. I don't see anything like in the extension mod.
This is a great learning tool. Makes learning a new build order so much faster. I thought it had disappeared and I didn't think to check extension mods. Thanks so much for your work!
Fixed on NA and EU servers. I will have to wait till tomorrow to fix this on SEA and KR servers due to Blizzard rolling out a patch.
While I am here I may as well repost what I said to someone else about updates:
I've actually done a major patch since your post. Behind the scenes I did a MAJOR rewrite and clean up of a lot of stuff.
One of the biggest changes you'll notice is audio prompts to talk you through the build you're following as well as a few more builds added in by default.
Most of the work on this patch was behind the scenes and you won't notice except for the things it fixed. It fixed a few bugs but more importantly it made it so I will be able to patch and expand SALT much much quicker from now on whenever I want to add a feature or fix a problem. It might have a few kinks I haven't yet discovered but I should get them patched up as soon as they get reported.
.... Also I'm yet to do a promotion or sexy demo video. I've only released 10minute long tutorials of myself talking. It's hard to get people to listen to you for 10 minutes. I plan to release a 3 minute clip showcasing the essentials with lots of music and explosions in the near future.
For comparrissons sake, this is the OLD function for loading the game: http://pastebin.com/LRNjcgcC which is 554 lines long.
This is the newer, leaner version: http://pastebin.com/cvbRwwPF and is only 65 lines long. So it does everything the old version did and more, it's just better written and is more robust. There was a lot of cleanups like that I had to do to make the project managable for one person.
Again, just more experience and learning from mistakes as I go.
Created a second version which reflects the new economy changes demonstrated in LOTV so far.
The map starts you off with 12 workers and less resources per mineral field so people can get a feel for how the races will handle the new changes in economy. You can experiment away without having to spend half the time waiting for maps to load and players to join lobbies.
Also fixed an issue where you could share vission with critters on the map.
Sorry for double post but since this thread is still fresh and there are a bunch of people here who would be interested...
Good news everybody!
LOTV fan mod has finally hit the streets
know what that means?
endless oceans of strategy, mechanics that nobody has learned and build orders you've only never even dreamed about await just round the corner...
The best way to create a map for yourself in these uncharted waters? SALT.
Which is why I have released the newest version of SALT with LOTV compatibility. Just watch the demo to see how you can use SALT to practice LOTV alpha build orders as well as practice new engagements and battles against your friends:
The LOTV extension mod is called "LotV Custom - Unofficial Fan Alpha". Once you click on the SALT maps just click play with extension mod and search for "LOTV" on any server. It will show up.
If you have any problems with the LOTV mod on NA try another server, there have been some problems on NA lately.
there is an important change to note, You should use the custom maps section to access the maps with SALT on it, otherwise it will create an issue with your banks. I will make sure that the maps available there are up to date with ladder/tournaments.
On May 05 2015 13:16 turtles wrote: Thanks fluidrone :D
Also hi everyone else. Long time since an update. I'm still maintaining SALT but I'm actively working on creating an AI. Very excited to show it off but I'm not ready yet.
Also the AI is built on-top-of / in-conjunction-with SALT. So when it does finally hit it will be compatible with SALT and you'll be able to use it in SALT as a practice budy or to compete against it. + Show Spoiler +
(Or to set two AIs against eachother in the pit of battle and watch them fight to the death gladitorial style while you have plebs fan you with palm fronds and eat grapes peeled by beautiful women)
Also I finally decided on a name for the project: SALTAI ASALT Donatello turtleAI
Dorfl
Avid Terry Pratchet fans will know who I'm talking about. I was working on the project when I heard the news of his passing and I thought it would be a cool way to honour someone who was so influential to me. By naming the project after the discworlds first ever Artificial Intelligence.
Backstory: Golems are made of clay and programmed with instructions written on paper and placed in their head in the same way a computer is programmed. Golems are programmed to have a master that they must obey but dorfl is purchased and has the reciept placed in his head so that he must become his own master and obey the dictates of his own consciousness becoming the first sentient machine.
Also hi everyone else. Long time since an update. I'm still maintaining SALT but I'm actively working on creating an AI. Very excited to show it off but I'm not ready yet.
Also the AI is built on-top-of / in-conjunction-with SALT. So when it does finally hit it will be compatible with SALT and you'll be able to use it in SALT as a practice budy or to compete against it. + Show Spoiler +
(Or to set two AIs against eachother in the pit of battle and watch them fight to the death gladitorial style while you have plebs fan you with palm fronds and eat grapes peeled by beautiful women)
Also I finally decided on a name for the project: SALTAI ASALT Donatello turtleAI
Dorfl
Avid Terry Pratchet fans will know who I'm talking about. I was working on the project when I heard the news of his passing and I thought it would be a cool way to honour someone who was so influential to me. By naming the project after the discworlds first ever Artificial Intelligence.
Backstory: Golems are made of clay and programmed with instructions written on paper and placed in their head in the same way a computer is programmed. Golems are programmed to have a master that they must obey but dorfl is purchased and has the reciept placed in his head so that he must become his own master and obey the dictates of his own consciousness becoming the first sentient machine.
Two updates I wanted to make. First is an update about the mineral patch vision "bug".
I've had a whole bunch of people bringing up the "bug" that they have vision of mineral fields and vespene guysers. That is true, I made the players share vision with the resources and other neutral units. You cannot see enemy units or get any real scouting information. The only two ways this might be helpful is if you deliberately look to see if a destructable rock has been knocked down or if you click on resource patches to check the minerals left to determine if the enemy has a base there.
I made it that way because it's the only way I can get the mod to work. Without that little "fix" there is no way that I can get SALT to do what it does. It used to not be that way but in one of Blizzards more later patches they changed something and I had to indtroduce the "fix" so that SALT would still work.
I spent another couple of hours today trying to find work arounds but for the moment I'm considering it a really low priority. I don't really see how it could be considered as a problem, yet I still get messaged about it.
So if people who think it SHOULD be a priority could explain to me why they think it needs to be fixed then I will dedicate more time to trying to find a solution. Until then I think I've exhausted all possibilities, it'll just remain as a strange little quirk which does not effect any game play.
Second issue:
SALT is now open source on the US server. You can download it in the editor and take a look around for yourself how things are put together. There is a README file at the top of the source code. I'll be publishing as open source to the other servers as I update but that won't be very frequently as the AI is still in development.
As stated above SALT is getting a compatible AI. But I will also be releasing the AI independantly. The source code for the AI is also in SALT so you can go in and have a look at what I've got so far.
Here is a recent alpha demo:
and for anyone who wants to download and look at the AI here is a demo of the steps needed to set that up:
Thanks, and as always I look forward to hearing back from you all.
This tool is super useful for new player learning, I use it on US server, but normally I play on China region, would you upload it to China region also?? That would be a big big big big favor for all the Chinese players! Thank you
Thank you for your kind words. I have uploaded to korean and South East Asia server but my SC2 client is unable to connect to the Chinese server.
It is my understanding that people outside of China do not have access to the Chinese servers. If I wanted to upload to China I think I would need to set up a VPN and then buy a new Chinese SC2 account.
SALT is open source, which means that someone with a Chinese account could download it from the NA server and then publish it to the China server themselves. If you have some experience with the map editor or know people who do then you are welcome to publish this to the Chinese servers. If you upload it, please give credit to myself as the origional creator. If you don't have experience you can PM me and maybe I can talk you through the steps involved.
Even if it is uploaded it would need promotion for others to know about it. I can't speak Chinese and don't even know what the Chinese SC2 websites are so I would not be able to advertize SALT.
It's kind that you offer the solution I can do some research about how to upload SALT to Chinese server, and liuzhenming@ownself.org is my email, you can send me a empty mail so that I can ask question about details, if you don't want to spoil your email in this thread. I searched page about to publish MODs to battle.net on blizzard website, I'll read through it but first step is where I can get SALT mod source code? Is it on somewhere like GitHub? Or I only can download it in the game, if I need download it in game, then where it's stored, I searched it under "/Users/XXXX/Documents/StarCraft II" and "Game/StarCraftII", nothing found.
I also searched in Startcraft II China region, it seems nobody upload SALT yet, if I can make it work, I'll do it and give credit to you Also I can do the translation. For advertizing, probably I can post some threads on the popular starcraft forums in China.
On September 14 2015 11:15 turtles wrote: Hi Ownself,
Thank you for your kind words. I have uploaded to korean and South East Asia server but my SC2 client is unable to connect to the Chinese server.
It is my understanding that people outside of China do not have access to the Chinese servers. If I wanted to upload to China I think I would need to set up a VPN and then buy a new Chinese SC2 account.
SALT is open source, which means that someone with a Chinese account could download it from the NA server and then publish it to the China server themselves. If you have some experience with the map editor or know people who do then you are welcome to publish this to the Chinese servers. If you upload it, please give credit to myself as the origional creator. If you don't have experience you can PM me and maybe I can talk you through the steps involved.
Even if it is uploaded it would need promotion for others to know about it. I can't speak Chinese and don't even know what the Chinese SC2 websites are so I would not be able to advertize SALT.
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LOTV fan mod has finally hit the streets ![[image loading]](http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/261/f/c/fcd297d8c80371b1ffca7ec2e7a4e111-d2yzpd1.jpg)
