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Hipster Heaven!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zHrz3.jpg)
I have gotten many complaints of my maps being too ordinairy. So I figured I'd go into unchartered waters and try something completally wack. So it will be fun to see what people think.
IT HAS 3000+ TREES IN IT
Overview
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It looks huge I know, it is huge aswell. Here is more or less what I had planned for the map and some illustration!
Explanation!!!
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RJtEK.jpg) Lets say you spawn at 4/5'o clock. Then the 3'o clock and the 6/7'o clock spawns are not options for your opponent to spawn at. Only 1o'clock, 11o'clock and 9o'clock are the available spawns. Since this is a map with 6 main spawns it is obviously rediculously large, this is my preposed fix to that: At all the spawns where there no player there are rocks covering the natural spawn which shortens the scouting distance. Ignore the in-base Xel'naga towers it was an old idea.
Beauty Pics
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Analyzer
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I will also, if I deem it worth it, trim it down alot. The closer to the middle mains are a bit too large and the third in between mains is also too large.
This map is obviously heavily a Work In Progress, just trying out wierd things and such.
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I actually was doing something similar to this in order to convert that 8-spawn map to 1v1... I forget the name, it's bel'shir and is used for 2v2 and 4v4. It wasn't very successful, but that's because that map wasn't right to begin with.
I've been thinking about watchtowers in the mains... It's an interesting idea.
Very odd map, at any rate.
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If 1. the rocks indicate whether someone has spawns there or not, and 2. the distance to the rocks is comparable to the scouting distances on a normal map, then...
Isn't the scouting situation functionally that of a normal map? In which case, why do you need any special features (the towers) to handle proxies? If someone wanted to proxy, they would have to gamble that they'd find their opponent first try or be way behind, just like a normal multi spawn map.
The rocks is a great way to adjust for scouting length while affecting ease of expanding, so thumbs up there.
The map is just so big. I would remove the lowground 3rd entirely. If you can't spawn close, there's no reason it needs to be there as a distinct base--the natural of the next door spawn can serve just as well. I know it's meant to be a 3rd without rocks, but I think the close main can serve that purpose. Then you have 12 bases and not 15, which means you could put some "towards the opponent" expansions somewhere around the middle, if you want. Then you have a sort of 3-sided Shakuras Plateau, which would be neat I think because players could actually split the unused wing equally and somewhat stably.
I think ideally you should have a tower in the center with sidepaths like on Shattered Temple so tower control doesn't give total ground security to the unused wing.
Really like the novelty. 
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On October 07 2011 03:42 EatThePath wrote:+ Show Spoiler +If 1. the rocks indicate whether someone has spawns there or not, and 2. the distance to the rocks is comparable to the scouting distances on a normal map, then... Isn't the scouting situation functionally that of a normal map? In which case, why do you need any special features (the towers) to handle proxies? If someone wanted to proxy, they would have to gamble that they'd find their opponent first try or be way behind, just like a normal multi spawn map. The rocks is a great way to adjust for scouting length while affecting ease of expanding, so thumbs up there. The map is just so big. I would remove the lowground 3rd entirely. If you can't spawn close, there's no reason it needs to be there as a distinct base--the natural of the next door spawn can serve just as well. I know it's meant to be a 3rd without rocks, but I think the close main can serve that purpose. Then you have 12 bases and not 15, which means you could put some "towards the opponent" expansions somewhere around the middle, if you want. Then you have a sort of 3-sided Shakuras Plateau, which would be neat I think because players could actually split the unused wing equally and somewhat stably. I think ideally you should have a tower in the center with sidepaths like on Shattered Temple so tower control doesn't give total ground security to the unused wing. Really like the novelty.
The thought behind the towers was, unless you go really fast expansion you will allways see the scouting worker, if so, for a second if it turns around when it spots you. If there are no rocks the worker knows you are there and you do not have a chance to know if he scouted or not. That would ofcourse only happen if he scouts you first or second because otherwise he knows where you are anyhow but yea perhaps the towers is a bit too much.
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I'm torn. I actually like the design, but calling it hipster makes me want to burn it to the ground in a fit of pure rage. Any chance of a 2v2 or 3v3 fixed-position version?
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On October 07 2011 03:52 Mashmed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 03:42 EatThePath wrote:+ Show Spoiler +If 1. the rocks indicate whether someone has spawns there or not, and 2. the distance to the rocks is comparable to the scouting distances on a normal map, then... Isn't the scouting situation functionally that of a normal map? In which case, why do you need any special features (the towers) to handle proxies? If someone wanted to proxy, they would have to gamble that they'd find their opponent first try or be way behind, just like a normal multi spawn map. The rocks is a great way to adjust for scouting length while affecting ease of expanding, so thumbs up there. The map is just so big. I would remove the lowground 3rd entirely. If you can't spawn close, there's no reason it needs to be there as a distinct base--the natural of the next door spawn can serve just as well. I know it's meant to be a 3rd without rocks, but I think the close main can serve that purpose. Then you have 12 bases and not 15, which means you could put some "towards the opponent" expansions somewhere around the middle, if you want. Then you have a sort of 3-sided Shakuras Plateau, which would be neat I think because players could actually split the unused wing equally and somewhat stably. I think ideally you should have a tower in the center with sidepaths like on Shattered Temple so tower control doesn't give total ground security to the unused wing. Really like the novelty. The thought behind the towers was, unless you go really fast expansion you will allways see the scouting worker, if so, for a second if it turns around when it spots you. If there are no rocks the worker knows you are there and you do not have a chance to know if he scouted or not. That would ofcourse only happen if he scouts you first or second because otherwise he knows where you are anyhow but yea perhaps the towers is a bit too much.
Well, to hold the temporary in-base tower, you have to put a worker on it. You could just put that worker outside if you're concerned about not seeing their scout, which would require a little more minimap vigilance, but... more skill, more gg, right? Hehe.
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Clever map.
I can see you're trying to explain a concept more than a map here so without over-analysing this; I like it, it's naughty but nice. I want to see games played on a finished version of it.
If I were you I would take the awesome terrain structure, lose the XNT gimmick and just polish up the layout: More reasonable proportions, something in the middle obvious stuff really.
GJ
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Yea I guess you could put a random worker there instead.
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Fixed some stuff. Removed the third, added a "third" closer to the middle. Removed the in-base XNT and added 3 closer to the middle from the 3 big peninsulas.
Made a new overview
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Did some analyzer pictures (it was gruesome...) It seems the distance to a rock would be somethiing like 150-165 depending on where you spawn. Which I'd think is pretty ok I guess.
1o'clock
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3o'clock
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5o'clock
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7o'clock
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9o'clock
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11o'clock
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Also if someone would be willing to help me with the rocks only spawning at the spots where players aren't I would be very glad. Because the data/trigger editors are like chinese to me.
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I managed to import my own texture after alot of 'how the f...' Figured I might aswell try it out on a map I'm working on so i did some texture work in this map.
Note: My tile is still a bit wierd in reflecting lights at distances but closer up it looks great.
Overview:
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edit: oh.... triple post, someone is gonna hate me for that:/
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How dare you triple post? I hate you.
+ Show Spoiler +Textures look good. (: I love you
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How else could I shamelessly bump my thread!
I've done some additional texturing and added loads of doodads. Also trying out some fog settings. Let me know what you think, personally I absolutally love it.
Overview:
For some reason the fog dissapeared when I did these images 0o. Watch the 'Good looking shot' to see what the fog looks like.
http://i.imgur.com/pjKpu.jpg
Good looking shot:
http://i.imgur.com/ySKej.jpg
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Hipsters... Don't get me started with them...
Other than the map name, immense size, asymmetrical layout, and extremely unusual watchtower + rocks idea... good map.
I think you are trying to do too many things at one time. Balancing this and weeding out imbalances will be near impossible. You also have a fortress effect going on (assuming players cannot spawn adjacent to one another on the plateau) on an already massive map. The naturals are practically impossible to attack because of the distance from the opponent and the bridge-like choke.
Sorry, but I really think that you should abandon this concept and work on something else.
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On October 08 2011 07:52 Antares777 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hipsters... Don't get me started with them...
Other than the map name, immense size, asymmetrical layout, and extremely unusual watchtower + rocks idea... good map.
I think you are trying to do too many things at one time. Balancing this and weeding out imbalances will be near impossible. You also have a fortress effect going on (assuming players cannot spawn adjacent to one another on the plateau) on an already massive map. The naturals are practically impossible to attack because of the distance from the opponent and the bridge-like choke.
Sorry, but I really think that you should abandon this concept and work on something else.
The fact of the matter is:
Cross map on this map is shorter than on Tal'darim altar. Finding your opponent in this map, assuming you scout them last on both maps, you actually scout them 1 minute faster on my map. The natural is no harder attacking into than naturals with ramps e.g. Shakuras plateau, Antiga Shipyard. In fact I think a natural wall that is on the same level as you would be something that makes it easier to attack into.
The rocks have been fixed now so they should despawn if someone is in the main. If you want to try the map out it has been uploaded to EU.
Overview:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9b3E8.jpg)
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When I envisioned the rocks I thought it would be blocking the CC spot on the natural, not walling it off. What is your reasoning behind the wall instead? It makes it necessary for zerg to take that intermediate base (closer to opponent) as their 3rd, which I would say you should avoid if you could.
However, it's really cool that the unused side of the map is a pair of semi island double expos. I'm not sure when you'd have time to go take out the rocks over there, so it seems like terran drops would be really strong, especially vs zerg (if they had nydus'd in or something).
If you haven't already, I recommend blocking the NW and NE corners with no fly zones to reduce the obscene air space there.
Also the center base is tankable from one "outer" main, which exacerbates that ZvT problem in certain spawns.
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This is actually a really sick concept for a map.
You might need to work out a way to connect the three large segments of the map more though since through the center is the only way to approach the enemy cuz essentially, each player can easily take 5 bases and only have to defend two ramps that are in close proximity to each other.
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I changed the ramps a bit. Making the distance between the two larger. There's not much else I can do now though since the map is so far along.
Also changed the mains closer to the middle so that tanks shouldn't be able to bombard the thirds.
Not sure why rocks on a safer third would be a problem, if they really need to take a super quick third you can take the riskier one. Like Tal'Darim more or less.
The thing about having a main close to you that you are not using also opens up another path to your bases. Protoss can use blink stalkers over there and then come in through the back, Terrans can do bio drops and Zergs can do ol drones to come in from the back.
Overview
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Also, if you check this picture you'll see that defending both those spots if you have taken that third. Will spread you pretty thin.
http://i.imgur.com/5jX0u.jpg
Changed the middle a bit aswell, feel it was a little to open.
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Why is this thread not getting any more attention? I've been lurking this thread for a while without commenting because I didn't really have anything substantial to add to the comments, but I feel this map deserves a bit more feedback. And then a bit more, as soon as this is actually close to being finished 
I really love the aesthetics though and the fact that the tile is custom made. A bit more effort laid into it and it could be really really fun.
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I intensely love the changes you have made.
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On October 10 2011 08:03 oberhofer wrote:Why is this thread not getting any more attention? I've been lurking this thread for a while without commenting because I didn't really have anything substantial to add to the comments, but I feel this map deserves a bit more feedback. And then a bit more, as soon as this is actually close to being finished I really love the aesthetics though and the fact that the tile is custom made. A bit more effort laid into it and it could be really really fun.
Thanks, and this is exactly how I feel lol...
I get really sad when I see maps that in my opinion isn't as "creative" as mine just get 30+ posts when mine seem to just die after 10 posts.
Should I assume my map is perfect and that is why I'm getting no response?
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I'm with you mashmed. I don't really have a lot to add at this point beyond what I already said but I'll gladly bump for support. I didn't realize you added those crystals to break up the middle, you should edit your OP so it has the newest overview pic with all the pretty stuff. 
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Very interesting ideas! Is the map published anywhere?
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Considering how hipsters like their photographs to have a rather vintage and soft feel, I can agree with the map title! However, maybe you would like to change the map title to something less hate-able? =)
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The map is published on EU under 'Hipster Heaven'.
And yes I might consider changing the name later on but for now it shall stay as Hipster Heaven
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i want to play this maps, quite intriguing
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The aesthetic changes keep getting better and better.
Mind if I ask about the destructible debris? It reminds me of a novice map from the practice league.
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THIS
IS
BEAUTIFUL.
o____________o
But I think, independantly of the concept, that I do not feel so useful, but that's discutable, that there is too much unused space everywhere on the map.
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On October 12 2011 04:07 Chargelot wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The aesthetic changes keep getting better and better.
Mind if I ask about the destructible debris? It reminds me of a novice map from the practice league.
The rocks are only there if there is no player in the main. It is to shorten the scouting distance because the map is so big.
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Time for some finishing touches before the TL Contest entry.
Here is an explanation of how spawns work on this map.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mKfLy.jpg)
If you've spawned in any of these spawns the spawns which are linked with the green lines are "close spawns" and therefor your opponent can not spawn at those locations.
And to further explain the destructible rocks:
The rocks are destroyed at the mains where someone spawn, so if you scout rocks on any expansion that means there are no player there, unless terran lifted their command center there or something.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
I like this map, but I am worried for you. It is fairly complex and hence (if it made it) it would most likely be altered and hence destroyed. If you plan on submitting I think it would have a better chance of doing something if it were a team play map (with some modifications). ATM team play maps are getting smaller, this is going in the other direction and imo might open up new possibilities etc. Just my 2c.
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On October 28 2011 13:37 Plexa wrote:
I like this map, but I am worried for you. It is fairly complex and hence (if it made it) it would most likely be altered and hence destroyed. If you plan on submitting I think it would have a better chance of doing something if it were a team play map (with some modifications). ATM team play maps are getting smaller, this is going in the other direction and imo might open up new possibilities etc. Just my 2c.
I'm looking at this and, yeah, this would be a fantastic 2v2 map. Way better than all the 2v2 maps in the pool now. Of course 2v2 is less glamourous than 1v1, so I'd understand if you don't want to do that.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 28 2011 13:37 Plexa wrote:[spoiler]
I like this map, but I am worried for you. It is fairly complex and hence (if it made it) it would most likely be altered and hence destroyed. If you plan on submitting I think it would have a better chance of doing something if it were a team play map (with some modifications). ATM team play maps are getting smaller, this is going in the other direction and imo might open up new possibilities etc. Just my 2c.
If I would submit this as a 2v2 map, do I only have 2 other map submits available to me? Or can I submit 3 1v1 maps aswell? Otherwise I'm guessing this will stay as it is and I either find some other map to use or just use this at the lack of other good maps.
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I'm not sure this would be a good 2v2 map without some modifications. The main bases of a given team are simply too far from each other, it's like Arid Wastes in that regard.
But yeah, something as simple as moving the main ramps so they are on the yellow line on your picture, instead of being in the back, could be a possibility. I'm all for more diversity in the 2v2 map pool.
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Damn I wanted to give you feedback earlier, now your map is already a honorable mention in the TL contest^^
Anyway I really really like this as a 2v2 map, I just think there is one problem: Only 15 bases and the way you take bases is you take your 5 bases, enemies take their 5 bases and then you basically battle for the other 5 bases cos its hard to split those for both teams.
So what I'd really like to see is one more base added in between, so that first of all you can take a 6th base in your half and also the transition to the empty side of the map is more smooth , allowing for easier splits of the bases there.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Zo99P.jpg)
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Grats to the honorable mention in the TLMC!
Since I play some 2v2 now and then, I tested your map. I seldom have problem with lag, but on this I had. The trees looks nice but you should run the map with FPS displayed and see if it drops less when you've removed the trees.
Second, the mineral lines in the 9 o'clock spawn has issues (the "red spawn in this image). One of two mineral patches were hidden behind the others.
GL HF
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I liked this map before it was cool to like this map.
The bases are too far apart for this to be a serious 2v2 map, btw. The rush distance helps but at a certain point you have to be proximate enough to your teammate to survive certain double rush attacks.
If it were a 2v2 map, the best part would be the very contentious 3rd spawn. It would really bring out the diversity in lategame 2v2 which usually just sees a tier3 bust if the game was stable up to that point. It would shift the late game to high mobility or air play, almost like island expansions in a way.
In theory, I think 2v2 maps are much more robust in terms of having huge map sizes and tons of bases at ridiculous walk distances. This is because there's double the potential to scout ninja bases and deal with them accordingly. So I agree with Plexa that conceptually this map would be a great offer for 2v2.
But it's a 1v1 map!!! And it would produce so many interesting builds were it to be graced with serious competitive play.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
When we tested the map for playability as a 2v2 map, it worked out fine. Maybe the bases could be a little closer together, but overall it worked out fine.
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On November 10 2011 07:26 Ragoo wrote:Damn I wanted to give you feedback earlier, now your map is already a honorable mention in the TL contest^^ Anyway I really really like this as a 2v2 map, I just think there is one problem: Only 15 bases and the way you take bases is you take your 5 bases, enemies take their 5 bases and then you basically battle for the other 5 bases cos its hard to split those for both teams. So what I'd really like to see is one more base added in between, so that first of all you can take a 6th base in your half and also the transition to the empty side of the map is more smooth , allowing for easier splits of the bases there.
Tyrador Keep, the only 3 spawn 2v2 map from Blizzard, also has 15 bases. However, the third sector of Tyrador Keep can actually be shared to some extent : out-base natural for one team and gold base for the other team is a realistic split that gives 6 bases per team. Only the three bases that are on the high ground are truely impossible to split.
Hispter Heaven is quite different, because the third sector is impossible to split, due to being entirely behind a single choke (technically, one base is outside the choke, but you can't split one base in two). While it may be a good reason to give teams an extra base, I fear that the layout you proposed would aggravate the issue : let's assume that Team A spawns at 5 and Team B spawns at 8. Once the game advances enough to justify taking the central bases, Team A would naturally take the one at 4 and Team B the one at 12 (the one at 7 would be contested, in a split scenario). From there, Team A has a smooth transition into taking the outer base of the unoccupied spawn, while Team B has a smooth transion into taking everything else (both mains and both naturals). You can see how that would be an issue.
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I just tested the map and it has two wrong minaral patches. Can you correct it please?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wQRRZ.jpg)
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