|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mDfnS.jpg)
(aka Jungle Shakuras  )
Published on EU and NA as TPW Overgrown
This map is supposed to take Shakuras out of all map pools. Rather, when Shakuras needs to replaced, TPW Overgrown has a chance for a spot. Even though the bases are on the same spots as Shakuras, I do believe the map plays differently and better. For example, it's easier to take a third and the middle is not a TvZ zerg trap (beacuse of XNT positions, the openess and the fact that there are several paths around the middle path).
Appearances
APL Theres No Better Team KOTH - Week 6 (Nov 19th)
Map of the Month #9 (played, VOD)
NASL Semi-Open (nov 16, 8:00 pm EST - nov 21)
NASL Open 2 (played)
NASL Open 1 (played)
Stats:
+ Show Spoiler +
Spawns: 4
Map size: 158x137 (playable, incl. air)
Resoruces: 14 regular bases
XelNaga Towers: 2 (coverage: ~18%)
Short nat-to-nat: ~134
Cross nat-to-nat: ~143
Main size: ~30 CCs
Facts:
- Korhal setting, but overgrown wth greenery.
- Below 1k doodads used.
- Left vs right spawns (no close spawns).
Features
+ Show Spoiler +
Mains
- Comfortable size and shape overall
- Mains are surrounded by pretty much airspace and there is much space behind the mineral lines.
Natural
- Nats are connected by backdoor and low ground area. Allows you to take the other nat as a third.
- 2 3x nat ramps in front, 1 3x ramp to the backdoor.
Middle
- There is a LoSB pocket right outside nat ramps. A small destructible statue inside. The small high ground next to it is pathable.
- XNTs are at similar position to Shakuras Plateau, but CAN'T be reached from the centre path. A player needs to get through the LoSB curtain via a third to take the tower. Each tower spies slightly more than half of the centre path.
Neutral Expos
- A reaper-path is connecting the 12 and 6 expos and two mains. Big units can’t be dropped on the path (only reapers and collossi can cross it).
- The high ground platforms behind the 12 and 6 expos are pathable (dropable).
Analyser Images
+ Show Spoiler +
Detail Images (Out of date)
+ Show Spoiler +
Thanks to Samro52am for great suggestions on layout details and Johannaz for the composition of overgrown skyscrapers.
|
Question: Why did you choose to make it shifted when it's so close to symmetric anyways?
|
Answer: First, the 6 and 12 mineral lines area becomes more balanced, which is the main reason anyone would do a shift I believe. Second, the slight shift makes the map slightly more fun without being too asymetric. Third, perfect mirror without shift looks ugly 
|
Very nice improvements compared to Shakuras, I love it. Also visuals seem to be really good, have to look at it ingame later
I loooove the secret reaper pathway, so cool. You really want your map to be reaperscout friendly and I think this is the correct way to go. It's very good already, one small suggestion:
+ Show Spoiler + if you add a small bit of lowground terrain in the circles reapers can also go through the back in the nat, behind the natural mineral line and inside the base The more you can scout, the better, right?
|
@Ragoo - nice idea. I had space at the red spots originally, but wanted to make the bakcdoor area smaller, so that tanks push wouldn't be too powerful there.
a close-up with tank range:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wPgfs.jpg)
More space next to the ramp would allow tanks to reach deeper into the nat, I think. Perhaps a silly concern? I coudl extend the nat to cover what is now a gap, though. On the other hand, that would make tanks defending the nat too strong I think.
BTW the main has a reaper-path from the low ground as well:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jXmdq.jpg)
Thread Update:
OP was updated with detail images
|
I'm really only talking about using your 2.0 brush and adding one bit of space here
+ Show Spoiler +, not anything more, shouldn't change anything else^^
and I saw the reaper path from the lowground, that's why I thought this was an excellent map for reaperscouts cause of so many pathes
Aesthetics look really innovative and cool, great job!
|
So its shakuras, but because as we all know zerg is underpowered, you removed all zerg unfriendly features from the map, and added few in that are zerg friendly.
Point is. This map is too zerg favored IMHO.
|
I think the XWTs should have rocks covering them.
|
@Sea_Food - thats very hard to say. Zerg imba is the hardest to spot I think. Do you have any more concrete argument why the map is zerg-favoured?
@IronManSC - Why?
|
I absolutely love the asthetics on this. Some really, really good use of grass.
|
@LunaSaint - glad you like the grass
@Ragoo - you're right ofc. I will add a little space to allow for reapers to sneak into the nat
The OP is updated with logo and a ton of more detail images (10 I think) for you rviewing pleasure
|
alot of areas with the concrete look spray painted on and i dont like that. but the theme of the map is a welcome change. i also think this would be great for 2v2s
|
your Country52797 Posts
On September 07 2011 22:03 Meltage wrote:Answer: First, the 6 and 12 mineral lines area becomes more balanced, which is the main reason anyone would do a shift I believe. Second, the slight shift makes the map slightly more fun without being too asymetric. Third, perfect mirror without shift looks ugly
4th, Shakuras IS shifted.
|
beautiful map, looks like it would have amazing gameplay.
i hope this map gets noticed by some bigger leagues, since it can really be an improvement on Shakuras
|
Love your work Meltage! All those ideas for nifty details make your maps stand out. In particular that it's usually not a huge innovation and complex arrangement of textures to create a new theme that has never been seen before, but just a little twist with a lot of attention to detail which creates this new look.
Looking forward to see some games on this map this sunday!
|
not sure if this would be better than shakuras, but nice changes
visually it looks great
some interesting changes, i think it should be much better but i haven't played on it yet :D
|
I played it a few hours ago and it seemed cool. However I felt that the entrance to the natural is kinda weird, wide ramps on three sides leaves it very exposed so I don't think it's similar to Shakuras when it comes to its economic focus. I also didn't get the purpose of the doodads around those statues. Everything else feels fine.
|
|
|
On September 08 2011 08:55 Meltage wrote:
@Sea_Food - thats very hard to say. Zerg imba is the hardest to spot I think. Do you have any more concrete argument why the map is zerg-favoured?
1. The map is very open.
2. Bunker rushing seems impossible on this map if any.
3. You could fit another map on the huge airspace behind mains.
4. Line of sight blockers EVERYWHERE.
5. So many attack paths, and with exeption of natural, you have to cover multiple paths more always when you take a base.
6. Extreme aumont of overlord highgrounds.
7. 14 base map.
These are the ones that came to my mind atm.
|
@WniO - yes, I'm not 100% happy with the grass paintjob. On the sprayed parts, it looks a bit less lilke grass and more like moss. At least that's the intention. I saw TPW Damage Inc yesterday ingame, and that grass looks amazing (the entire map looks great) and made me want to change the grass, or the lighting.
@spinnaker - you bet!
@Yoshi Kirishima - lol changing your mind mid-post? Thanks, play it on sunday in TPW channel bnet!
@GrungyMunchy - Cool that you took some time to play it! Note taken on the nat. It's a bit new, but should be easier to defend than XNC, for instance? P and T can do a FE complete wall-off:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TD36C.jpg)
The doodads around the statues are Line of Sight Blockers (LoSBs). The statues themself are destructible with low HP. Like this:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MAlrq.jpg)
@Sea_Food - thanks for paoints you're brigning up. Those I need to consider and keep in mind when playtesting. I'm not sure that all of them are issues. Do you have any suggestion on changes? You could elaborate on 2 and 7 - why are those bad things?
|
On September 09 2011 15:59 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 08:55 Meltage wrote:
@Sea_Food - thats very hard to say. Zerg imba is the hardest to spot I think. Do you have any more concrete argument why the map is zerg-favoured?
1. The map is very open. 2. Bunker rushing seems impossible on this map if any. 3. You could fit another map on the huge airspace behind mains. 4. Line of sight blockers EVERYWHERE. 5. So many attack paths, and with exeption of natural, you have to cover multiple paths more always when you take a base. 6. Extreme aumont of overlord highgrounds. 7. 14 base map. These are the ones that came to my mind atm.
2. I don't see that as a big problem and if he adds a reaperpath into the nat as I suggested, reaper bunker rushes will be fine.
3. I wouldn't call that Zerg feature, not every Zerg is going Mutas nowadays and Terran drops benefit from it as well
4. I don't see LoS EVERYWHERE, it's only really important at the watchtowers and there it's like the watchtowers on Tal'Darim on their little highground, or even like normal Shakuras where you can only go through the middle which is blocked nearly completely with LoS, imo no problem at all
5. I think it's quite easy to take another nat and main and then you have 4 bases, and then the other expansion route is towards your opponent and while the base that hugs your main is quite open the highground base after that is really nice for T/P... again I don't see the problem
6. The only significant places I see for overlords are in the airspace on the outside, the highround at the nat and the highground at the 6 and 12, other than that placing your Overlords on one of those highgrounds in the middle is suicidal, 4 can be spotted with watchtowers(again like Shakuras) and the other two are only important for cross position early game when you don't have air to kill them. Imo that's not a problem.
7. 14 bases is less than a 4 player rotational map has, which is 16, and just as much as Shakuras
I agree about 1, it is very open in the middle. There are ways to avoid going through the middle tho. But still, Meltage, you might want to look into that more.
|
On September 09 2011 19:36 Meltage wrote:
@Sea_Food - thanks for paoints you're brigning up. Those I need to consider and keep in mind when playtesting. I'm not sure that all of them are issues. Do you have any suggestion on changes? You could elaborate on 2 and 7 - why are those bad things?
2 and 7 are not bad, exept they are zerg favored features and in your map zerg really does not need them all.
I have a few ideas how could you make your map a little more reasonable vs zerg.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rdHZd.jpg)
|
Yeah I agree with Sea_Food, that's what I was trying to say before.
|
|
|
I think I agree that the mains should be extended into the air space somewhat. Mostly because I think the mains are small and have limited area to build in, though. The naturals have virtually no additional space for any buildings other than a wall-in, and the main is an awkward shape with a large perimeter relative to the area, so I feel it will be difficult to place a lot of buildings in the later stages of the game; in particular a lot of barracks. Although 28 CCs, the area in these mains can't be used very efficiently do to the shape.
|
I'm pretty sure I will extend the mains into the nat and I'm considering changing the forward nat ramp as Sea_Food and others have suggested.
I have already implemented the perfect suggestion from Ragoo - a reaper entrance at the nat backdoor:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/G8qNF.jpg)
Before:
+ Show Spoiler +
I probably wont do any more changes until NASL open has been played this weekend ( thread ). There will also be a second tournament one week after that.
In addition, TPW Overgorwn will be used in MotM 9 in the end of oct / beginning of nov.
All those games will hopefully give me some race win ratio and pro/grand master/master feedback
|
Hey Melt, veeeery nice map. Love the "overgrown skycrapper" concept.
Wish I could give you more feedback on the balance front, but haven´t really laddered thus far.
|
@unjugon Glad you like! Played yet?
The OP has been updated with appearances:
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Update
- Mains are slightly bigger now and the space added is behind the mineral lines.
- The small high grounds by the forward third and in between the nats were made slightly bigger to choke the area some more.
- The high ground between the nats is still pathable (droppable)
New detail images:
Mains
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rTZnf.jpg)
Middle and third area
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jwePi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pwEXV.jpg)
|
This map has such a unique and beautiful style, I love it!
|
Map Update
- Waterfall doodads were removed, due to causing FPS drop (but not by much).
|
Ooo pretty. I would much rather play this than Shakuras Plateau.
|
United States10303 Posts
I like this better than shakuras, because if you take a quick third on shakuras and the opponent contains you, you have no way of saving your third unless you all-in counter.
however, this map as the "backdoor" so that if opponent tries to camp your outside ramp area, you still have a way of reinforcing your quick third.
This map > Shakuras Anyday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P1Qbi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kTbUK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XNnvO.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/soA8L.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/48kbO.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DnVGp.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XibIM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tZy90.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NzzTg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KSNqS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N7ypD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pFjbl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hxGVv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aPEXP.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Vvv2K.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/f3ylE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tOrb7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cvFoi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LbjRW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iDZOF.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ulo8a.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g8nhN.jpg)
