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On June 29 2010 22:14 mikx wrote:
It would be great if there would be a way to show which structures/units get build how an when by the computer - and maybe some kind of setting to define how close the computer comes to a perfect build (hardly any human would be perfect every time). Maybe even a way to go above 100% precision for the AI, so that the computer finishes stuff earlier than do-able and we could see how much "breathing room" for mistakes our own builds have.
AI build order comments are possible and with minor tweaks can be done as early as next release. Perfection is another story. Hard to measure. Currently the AI is limited to 200 APM, but programming it to "make" mistakes with preset build order will not be trivial. Especially, considering that those mistakes should not break the core element of the said opening build. One fairly quick solution is to have APM randomly fluctuating withing specified limits. How about that?
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A few bugs (or I think so)
I made my own build, saved it on a custom slot, and then I played against... but the IA didn't do my build :/.
When playing vs a zerg build, the zerg didn't place his hatch at nat (wich was weird)
If you avec some kind of wall, IA unit just... suicide. A retreat should be possible for them.
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On June 29 2010 22:56 ganil wrote:
A few bugs (or I think so)
I made my own build, saved it on a custom slot, and then I played against... but the IA didn't do my build :/.
When playing vs a zerg build, the zerg didn't place his hatch at nat (wich was weird)
If you avec some kind of wall, IA unit just... suicide. A retreat should be possible for them.
Could you please post your build string?
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On June 29 2010 22:45 vlovsky wrote:
AI build order comments are possible and with minor tweaks can be done as early as next release. Perfection is another story. Hard to measure. Currently the AI is limited to 200 APM, but programming it to "make" mistakes with preset build order will not be trivial. Especially, considering that those mistakes should not break the core element of the said opening build. One fairly quick solution is to have APM randomly fluctuating withing specified limits. How about that?
I am not sure how much of the build order get's actually done by the AI and how much is scripted actions. So what i mean is: Is the AI really building drones and buildings, using up money/gas and producing attack wave units in the required buildings? Would the AI need to wait to have enough money to do something? Are is YABOT basically spawning units "out of thin air" in the time defined by the build order and runs for an attack?
If YABOT really builds stuff it would be awesome if we could enable/disble the vision of the AI, just as turning on the view of both players in a replay. This way you could easily see how far the computer is.
In case of scripting seeing the AI executing the build-order in a list (just like seeing your progress against your build) would be cool.
In terms of "precision" it might be enough to just delay the actions of the AI. So if the precision is 90% things happen 10% later as defined in the build order. It would basically be a convinient way to delay the attack waves of any given build by a certain percentage instead of manually changing the waves. So if you want to learn countering a certain rush you can try against a "weaker" opponent first and than go up in timing. Like a handicap level for the AI.
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On June 29 2010 23:12 vlovsky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 22:56 ganil wrote:
A few bugs (or I think so)
I made my own build, saved it on a custom slot, and then I played against... but the IA didn't do my build :/.
When playing vs a zerg build, the zerg didn't place his hatch at nat (wich was weird)
If you avec some kind of wall, IA unit just... suicide. A retreat should be possible for them. Could you please post your build string?
edit : I tried to do a zerg build but at a point, the IA stopped to copy me and did nothing anymore :/.
edit²
zerg one here (I think)
<Value string="018 Recorded Build | 11 | Author Name | This build order was recorded from your freestyle play. [w] 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 [/w] 10 100 0 55 1 1 31 0 | 13 225 0 110 1 0 41 0 | 15 80 0 134 1 0 35 0 | 16 265 0 167 1 0 35 0 | 15 315 0 176 1 1 32 0 | 17 195 4 179 1 1 31 0 | 18 160 24 191 1 1 35 0 | 20 145 48 228 1 2 3 0 | 22 175 72 261 1 3 42 0 | 22 195 80 263 1 1 31 0 | 28 240 260 309 1 0 43 0 | 27 135 100 319 1 1 31 0 | 35 175 284 366 1 1 31 0 | 35 600 452 410 1 1 30 0 | 45 325 24 430 1 0 36 0 "/>
terran n°1 (?)
<Value string="018 Recorded Build | 3 | Author Name | This build order was recorded from your freestyle play. [w] 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 [/w] 10 120 0 61 1 0 15 0 | 12 165 0 100 1 0 1 0 | 14 125 0 131 1 0 12 0 | 15 50 0 160 1 2 0 0 | 15 75 24 177 1 1 5 0 | 16 125 24 178 1 0 15 0 | 19 235 100 217 1 0 5 0 | 23 260 84 260 1 0 12 0 | 23 245 88 263 1 0 15 0 | 24 225 53 282 1 0 17 0 | 24 375 103 282 1 0 5 0 | 25 235 35 298 1 0 15 0 | 27 235 71 308 1 1 3 0 | 32 335 191 338 1 1 10 0 | 37 115 6 348 1 3 13 0 "/>
PS: I have no idea why it's crossed on my broweser :p
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On June 29 2010 23:26 mikx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 22:45 vlovsky wrote:
AI build order comments are possible and with minor tweaks can be done as early as next release. Perfection is another story. Hard to measure. Currently the AI is limited to 200 APM, but programming it to "make" mistakes with preset build order will not be trivial. Especially, considering that those mistakes should not break the core element of the said opening build. One fairly quick solution is to have APM randomly fluctuating withing specified limits. How about that? If YABOT really builds stuff it would be awesome if we could enable/disble the vision of the AI, just as turning on the view of both players in a replay. This way you could easily see how far the computer is. ..... In terms of "precision" it might be enough to just delay the actions of the AI. So if the precision is 90% things happen 10% later as defined in the build order. It would basically be a convinient way to delay the attack waves of any given build by a certain percentage instead of manually changing the waves. So if you want to learn countering a certain rush you can try against a "weaker" opponent first and than go up in timing. Like a handicap level for the AI.
AI really builds stuff and produces units according to the build orders, spending resources and waiting for them. One caveat, old BO strings do no contain appropriate number of units, they contain only one of each type that ever built in the corresponding BO. So, waves are really constructed from spawn units. When BO's count parameter modified to build appropriate number of units AI will pick it up from there and waves could use those for attacking.
There is a cheat vision command, but it would take a team decision to publicize it. This encourages scouting. Is it useful to have separate mode where you could verify/clarify Build Orders done by AI?
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How does the string works ?
Because it's weird to see the IA to start doing a good build and then... not doing anything anymore.
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On June 29 2010 23:39 ganil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 23:12 vlovsky wrote:On June 29 2010 22:56 ganil wrote:
A few bugs (or I think so)
I made my own build, saved it on a custom slot, and then I played against... but the IA didn't do my build :/.
When playing vs a zerg build, the zerg didn't place his hatch at nat (wich was weird)
If you avec some kind of wall, IA unit just... suicide. A retreat should be possible for them. Could you please post your build string? edit : I tried to do a zerg build but at a point, the IA stopped to copy me and did nothing anymore :/. edit² zerg one here (I think) <Value string="018 Recorded Build | 11 | Author Name | This build order was recorded from your freestyle play. [w] 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 [/w] 10 100 0 55 1 1 31 0 | 13 225 0 110 1 0 41 0 | 15 80 0 134 1 0 35 0 | 16 265 0 167 1 0 35 0 | 15 315 0 176 1 1 32 0 | 17 195 4 179 1 1 31 0 | 18 160 24 191 1 1 35 0 | 20 145 48 228 1 2 3 0 | 22 175 72 261 1 3 42 0 | 22 195 80 263 1 1 31 0 | 28 240 260 309 1 0 43 0 | 27 135 100 319 1 1 31 0 | 35 175 284 366 1 1 31 0 | 35 600 452 410 1 1 30 0 | 45 325 24 430 1 0 36 0 "/> terran n°1 (?) <Value string="018 Recorded Build | 3 | Author Name | This build order was recorded from your freestyle play. [w] 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 [/w] 10 120 0 61 1 0 15 0 | 12 165 0 100 1 0 1 0 | 14 125 0 131 1 0 12 0 | 15 50 0 160 1 2 0 0 | 15 75 24 177 1 1 5 0 | 16 125 24 178 1 0 15 0 | 19 235 100 217 1 0 5 0 | 23 260 84 260 1 0 12 0 | 23 245 88 263 1 0 15 0 | 24 225 53 282 1 0 17 0 | 24 375 103 282 1 0 5 0 | 25 235 35 298 1 0 15 0 | 27 235 71 308 1 1 3 0 | 32 335 191 338 1 1 10 0 | 37 115 6 348 1 3 13 0 "/> PS: I have no idea why it's crossed on my broweser :p
We are aware of the problems with Zerg mutation interrupting build order. Next release should contain a fix for this. Expansion is not supported yet.
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On June 30 2010 00:37 ganil wrote:
How does the string works ?
Because it's weird to see the IA to start doing a good build and then... not doing anything anymore.
BOs are usually interrupted because of the imperfections/lack of knowledge in the code. Please, post the BO string that does it persistently and I should be able see what's the problem and fix it.
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On June 30 2010 00:34 vlovsky wrote:
AI really builds stuff and produces units according to the build orders, spending resources and waiting for them. (...) So, waves are really constructed from spawn units. When BO's count parameter modified to build appropriate number of units AI will pick it up from there and waves could use those for attacking.
Wow, that's pretty cool. So we could potentially train to harass and stuff one day!? Can't wait 
On June 30 2010 00:34 vlovsky wrote:
Is it useful to have separate mode where you could verify/clarify Build Orders done by AI?
Personally i would consider that very useful to just to get a feeling for things. I agree always having it on would kill your scouting skills, but seeing what's going on would help me to get a better understand of timing in general (e.g. "on average around when i have X marines, protoss has Y zealots", etc)
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Ok, I'll try some stuff and post it when it doesn't work.
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Doing three gate robo I always lose to the mech opening. But, can beat the tank push.
Are you meant to do four gate against mech opening?
Its annoying. I'm probably going to try four gating. I'm such a noob.
Also, what about a pheonix build? there are no pheonix build, yet thats the only thing I know that beats terran siege tank play.
P.S. Oh yeah, what level is the push? as on the ladder I never have such strong pushes. But, thats because I'm in low leagues.
P.P.S. Anyway, just like to thank you for making this as its great.
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It's supposed to keep pumping marine (but it doesn't) and it should have way more army :/
Buggy terran build
<Value string="018 Recorded Build | 3 | Author Name | This build order was recorded from your freestyle play. [w] 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 [/w] 9 105 0 50 1 0 15 0 | 11 160 0 94 1 0 1 0 | 12 85 0 112 1 0 12 0 | 14 45 8 154 1 2 0 0 | 14 55 16 157 1 1 5 0 | 15 110 44 172 1 0 15 0 | 16 235 112 207 1 0 5 0 | 17 130 48 226 1 0 12 0 | 19 235 112 259 1 0 5 0 | 20 135 40 268 1 1 3 0 | 24 145 120 291 1 0 15 0 | 25 170 185 302 1 0 17 0 | 27 240 240 322 1 0 17 0 | 29 205 226 331 1 1 10 0 | 32 150 125 338 1 0 15 0 "/>
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On June 29 2010 22:14 mikx wrote:
I also noticed that the Bio/EMP waves feel unrealistically hard/early. I am not sure if the build times are possible in theory, but i have never been under such Terran pressure as a Protoss in a real game. However, maybe this is just because i never ran into someone playing that specific build so spot on.
I played against and yes, the BIO/EMP push is unrealistic. If you scout with your probe, you'll notice that the attack come once the T buildt his 2nd rax + ghost acadamy. I mean right after. Some units spawn from nowhere.
EDIT:
Also, if you loose against the push, the unit you lost againt aren't gone after -b and restart. They won't attack you but if they're in your base while the IA push come, they'll start attacking you aswell.
They'll attack you if you -p too.
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On June 30 2010 01:32 ganil wrote:
It's supposed to keep pumping marine (but it doesn't) and it should have way more army :/
Buggy terran build
<Value string="018 Recorded Build | 3 | Author Name | This build order was recorded from your freestyle play. [w] 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 [/w] 9 105 0 50 1 0 15 0 | 11 160 0 94 1 0 1 0 | 12 85 0 112 1 0 12 0 | 14 45 8 154 1 2 0 0 | 14 55 16 157 1 1 5 0 | 15 110 44 172 1 0 15 0 | 16 235 112 207 1 0 5 0 | 17 130 48 226 1 0 12 0 | 19 235 112 259 1 0 5 0 | 20 135 40 268 1 1 3 0 | 24 145 120 291 1 0 15 0 | 25 170 185 302 1 0 17 0 | 27 240 240 322 1 0 17 0 | 29 205 226 331 1 1 10 0 | 32 150 125 338 1 0 15 0 "/>
That's what I said, currently BO strings are limited. They only specify food count. Unit count has a placeholder there, but it always 1 and hence AI builds only one unit of each type.
On another hand, "Pumping" is a vague statement. Not in general, but when it comes to AI decisions. First of all food count includes workers and other units. Second, usually BOs don't contain "train worker" commands explicitly (although it might). Given those conditions, it is easy for me to decide to train workers when there are no other unit types present. However, when other units are available for training, food count becomes ambiguous without actual unit count and/or build priority. Don't want to go into much details, just want to mention that it's going to get some fresh improvements that will allow entirely fair BOs.
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Wow. Looks like I'm a couple versions behind. Look forward to trying out the latest. Happy to see ongoing work on this useful tool
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I edited my post above.
It's a very good map tbh, I wish you somehow manage to "fix" the AI in a next version. It would be the best map ever \o/. Playing against yourself is very good to try some stuff.
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On June 30 2010 02:36 ganil wrote:
I edited my post above.
It's a very good map tbh, I wish you somehow manage to "fix" the AI in a next version. It would be the best map ever \o/. Playing against yourself is very good to try some stuff.
Thanks dude. Don't worry it's coming.
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On June 29 2010 22:11 vlovsky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 15:31 reapsen wrote:
First of all: This thing is awesome and very helpful.. thanks to all creators.
@random UI: This can easily be adjusted. If you want to have a certain race UI you can go to Map->Player Properties in the Editor and then select the UI of the race you want for Player #1 (User). Save the map and run it. Easy is possible.
@Bug: I experienced a bug, when i was attacked by a wave and typed in -r. The attacking wave units still remained on the map. They didn't attack or move but they were not cleared off. This will render map unusable.
Works totally fine for me :-)
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On June 29 2010 23:39 ganil wrote:
PS: I have no idea why it's crossed on my broweser :p
For that, just put the [ code] [ /code] tag around your build orders. The [ s] and [ /s] is bbcode for strike-through 
As vlovsky has been saying, this AI system is the first pass and it is meant to start by providing a way for you to learn what the computer build order is, and then try to respond accordingly knowing what attack waves will be coming. Attack waves are indeed being spawned in no matter what at the specified times. There is a team of people currently working on optimizing the attack waves to make it "feel" like the real thing. For example, if the computer *should* be capable of making 6 zerglings for a push, the attack wave may send 10 to get the right difficulty. For this reason also, some attacks may actually come before the proper tech is finished. This will get better with time, so stick with us
As for the cheat command, let's publish it here, but not on the first post. That way you'll at least have to do some searching to find it. :p
-c.cheat.givemeopponentsvision
-c.cheat.looseopponentsvision
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EPT
